Nib socom m1a and an zast. m77 catastrophic failure possible ammo.

[Esholalex]

So this just happened, I don't know if it's posted somewhere but they both were using the same ammo and lot #. Zsr ammo

Just putting this out as a fyi.

If you have any , check your lot #

Also moderators... if this is the wrong place please move it... thanks

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[Jade Falcon]

Holy smokes! I'm gonna post these on GlockTalk and let others know. Thanks!

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

That SUCKS! I'm sorry man.
I'd flip sheet if my socom or (future) M77 blew up.
And thank you for the heads up on the ammo issue.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

Not the first time Turkish ammo blew things up.

 

[Dozer99]

A floating firing pin and a thin primer cup = out of battery detonation! (my guess)

I avoid Turkish ammo like the plague.

 

[Member 34319]

That is quite the different explosion. I've witnessed multiple kabooms in my day. Never have I seen one with so much fire. The fact that the rounds separated makes me wonder about their quality. Most of the time I see a kaboom with rounds in the mag they don't all separate, they are usually intact if anything bent up a bit. If you have more of this ammo, I'd be curious how much force is needed to pull the rounds from the cases. If that's super easy to do, I bet the bullet was forced into the case upon feeding and caused a barrel obstruction, over pressure kaboom.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

A floating firing pin and a thin primer cup = out of battery detonation! (my guess)

I avoid Turkish ammo like the plague.

Wrong guess. The M1A has a built in firing pin block. So while the firing pin floats, it can't go forward until the bolt is locked. Also if you watch the video there was about 10 seconds from the time the round chambered until he pulled the trigger to fire it.
Now some will start to speculate, maybe it was not fully in battery. The M1A also can not fully drop the hammer on the firing pin until the bolt is locked in battery. Also in the video the bolt was lock closed and stuck after the case failure.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

That is quite the different explosion. I've witnessed multiple kabooms in my day. Never have I seen one with so much fire. The fact that the rounds separated makes me wonder about their quality. Most of the time I see a kaboom with rounds in the mag they don't all separate, they are usually intact if anything bent up a bit. If you have more of this ammo, I'd be curious how much force is needed to pull the rounds from the cases. If that's super easy to do, I bet the bullet was forced into the case upon feeding and caused a barrel obstruction, over pressure kaboom.

It isn't uncommon on catastrophic failures for the shock wave of the explosion to ignite the primers in the rounds in the magazine. The fire likely was from the powder in the magazine rounds burning under low pressure.

 

[Member 34319]

It isn't uncommon on catastrophic failures for the shock wave of the explosion to ignite the primers in the rounds in the magazine. The fire likely was from the powder in the magazine rounds burning under low pressure.

In my experiences it is. Most rounds come out dented at most. Not torn apart.

 

[nehalemguy]

Screenshot.....

 

[Kid@Heart]

The round in the chamber was overcharged.

 

[Dozer99]

So, if the round was fully chambered and the bolt was locked in place, how did the fire happen behind the bolt and in the magazine? If the round was over pressured and the bolt was stuck shut after the detonation would it not have blown the barrel apart? (but on closer examination, the bolt did cycle).

I admit that it is very curious. I slowed the video down and it looks as if he fires the round, the bolt cycles and the explosion happens after the bullet leaves the muzzle. It is possible that the case ruptured, sending hot gasses and shrapnel downward into the magazine causing the remaining bullets to catch fire but not detonate. (unless I looked at the weapon and the remaining bullets it's all just a guess).

 

[Member 34319]

So, if the round was fully chambered and the bolt was locked in place, how did the fire happen behind the bolt and in the magazine? If the round was over pressured and the bolt was stuck shut after the detonation would it not have blown the barrel apart? (but on closer examination, the bolt did cycle).

I admit that it is very curious. I slowed the video down and it looks as if he fires the round, the bolt cycles and the explosion happens after the bullet leaves the muzzle. It is possible that the case ruptured, sending hot gasses and shrapnel downward into the magazine causing the remaining bullets to catch fire but not detonate. (unless I looked at the weapon and the remaining bullets it's all just a guess).

The fire was likely from the rounds that came apart, powder seemed everywhere on the bench in a few of the aftermath scenes in that video.

 

[Esholalex]

So, if the round was fully chambered and the bolt was locked in place, how did the fire happen behind the bolt and in the magazine? If the round was over pressured and the bolt was stuck shut after the detonation would it not have blown the barrel apart? (but on closer examination, the bolt did cycle).

I admit that it is very curious. I slowed the video down and it looks as if he fires the round, the bolt cycles and the explosion happens after the bullet leaves the muzzle. It is possible that the case ruptured, sending hot gasses and shrapnel downward into the magazine causing the remaining bullets to catch fire but not detonate. (unless I looked at the weapon and the remaining bullets it's all just a guess).

Brass is used because it's a soft metal and when the round detonates the pressure causes the brass to expand to the chamber wall thus sealing the chamber allowing the gasses to push the projectile out. Too much pressure can cause the brass to liquefy. The gasses will follow the path of least resistance meaning a case head separation fully or partial. (All guns have a couple of thousandths of headspace)Then that burning powder can escape through the nooks and crannies of the bolt down to the magazine

THUS SAFETY GLASSES

 

[Pepe-lepew]

Some better pictures online show the M1A sheared the bottom off the bolt face. The cartridges did not explode but were mangled by the shrapnel.

 

[Esholalex]

Is there a link to the pics? Or post some here. No matter how you slice it that's alottta pressure

 

[Xaevian]

 

[gmerkt]

What a nice gift from his wife at Christmas time. I love my wife dearly and she has been generous with gifts over the years, but it would never occur to her to give a rifle as a gift.

Lots of things to think about here. What comes to my mind is:

1. You are letting a friend fire your rifle. Yeah, you've been buddies for years. Still, if his hand got torn up, you might find yourself in a personal injury lawsuit.

2. Never forget that when shooting guns, there is a tiny but mighty explosion going off right near your face. For this reason, they are inherently dangerous and come with risks as to use.

3. I don't like getting up close to shooters on the range as some people do. Like the guy spotting in the video.

I've owned several M1A's but always the regular length barrel units. I don't much like the Socom design. Which came decades after the similar and original Harrington & Richardson "Guerilla Gun."

 

[Esholalex]

What a nice gift from his wife at Christmas time. I love my wife dearly and she has been generous with gifts over the years, but it would never occur to her to give a rifle as a gift.

Lots of things to think about here. What comes to my mind is:

1. You are letting a friend fire your rifle. Yeah, you've been buddies for years. Still, if his hand got torn up, you might find yourself in a personal injury lawsuit.

It has already been proven in previous lawsuits that the minute you step on a shooting range you realize that you are around something that is inherently dangerous and therefore the liability for this type of thing would not fall on the owner of the gun since it was brand new. Rather the manufacturer of the gun Or the ammo manufactur will foot this bill. In this case most likely the ammunition manufacturer. The only time this would fall on the owner is if he decided to become a home gunsmith and do something ridiculous Or hand it to Alec Baldwin. I will be interested to know if Springfield Armory sends him a new gun even if it's determined that it was not the gun's fault rather liability lands on the ammunition manufacturer.

 

[Esholalex]

What a nice gift from his wife at Christmas time. I love my wife dearly and she has been generous with gifts over the years, but it would never occur to her to give a rifle as a gift.

When my wife and I were dating she got me a daisy red Ryder bb gun with the compass in the stock..

Almost shot my eye out with that thing..