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It's really the way to go. I resisted for decades.
It's a no brainer and easy as heck.. see my "white powder!" thread for a complete tutorial.
lol
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New to Casting: I Need Random Suggestions, Advice, and DO NOT DOs
- Thread Starter awshoot
- Start date
It's a no brainer and easy as heck.. see my "white powder!" thread for a complete tutorial.
lol
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- #22
Man. WUT, things in you life must be pretty uncomplicated at this point?
But-then, I was never going to load shouldered rifle rounds.
Looking forward to following this thread. It should be interesting. Just don't burn yourself. That's not interesting.
LOL. I was considering myself lucky to find some weird 9mm bullets (mentioned in a different thread) --- even reloading components are getting scarce, so I figured I'd get ahead of the curve before all the pots and molds went out of stock. If it turns out to be just a panic buy no big deal -- I like learning how to do stuff. If it turns out that components stay scarce, then I'm wise.
Time will tell on that on.
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White Powder!!
So the first time I shot some powder coated bullets was when @agingstudent sent me some a ways back. So pretty and cool! Blue wadcutters, red flatnose, you get it. Accurate and no leading to boot. So I got done casting 7000 odd bullets and the time had come to lube them.. with "mule snot", Alox...
www.northwestfirearms.com
LOL. I was considering myself lucky to find some weird 9mm bullets (mentioned in a different thread) --- even reloading components are getting scarce, so I figured I'd get ahead of the curve before all the pots and molds went out of stock. If it turns out to be just a panic buy no big deal -- I like learning how to do stuff. If it turns out that components stay scarce, then I'm wise.
Hey man, I get it. I'm with you all the way!
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With a properly warmed mold and the Lyman alloy you plan on using, you should get some great looking pours, here's some 90 gr .380 from a Lee two-cavity mold. I've lost count of how many thousands of these I've poured over the last 30+ years...
"Store bought" lead from Rotometals I'd think is about the most expensive way of obtaining lead. Wheel weights as a source aren't as easy to come by now that they've gotten away from lead. BUT: Metals recyclers will sell you scrap lead that they've purchased, they simply mark it up. You can buy lead on ebay. I've sold a fair amount of it over the past few years. Generally, I got something over a dollar a pound for it, mailed it in a USPS Priority Mail flat rate container, otherwise shipping would be a killer.
With the store-bought Lyman #2 you know what hardness you are getting. But I used to be able to pretty much tell relative hardness by dropping a ball pein hammer on a bar of lead. Knowing already about how deep of a dent such a blow would make on pure lead, WW, Linotype, and other alloys. One time I got a big load of scrap lead from a glazier. Another time from a print shop that was going out of business, I filled the trunk of my car with Monotype, the differential housing was nearly on the snubbers. Made several trips like that.
If you have access to a shooting range after hours, there are berm mining possibilities. But don't do it in dry weather when all the dust is flying around in the air. Do it when the soil is wet. Then when you take the muddy scrap bullets home, use a large piece of sheet metal to wash them off. Like a sluice. The water keeps the lead dust under control as well as washing away the soil. After they are completely and utterly dry, you'll have to kind of refine these down in a larger pot. Don't use your casting pot. Get a single burner propane camp stove and a second hand iron pot for this. Save the waste jacket material you skim off, these are copper alloy that sells as scrap. The good metal that remains you can cast into ingots. You don't need to buy the Lee ingot mold, you can use a steel muffin tin or a cast iron corn bread mold.
OP, you picked 9mm and 40, two of the cheapest rounds to buy as factory ammo. Considering the capital outlay for equipment, those are gonna be expensive rounds for a while.
Sizing and lubing. Lee has those push-through sizing dies that work well enough. Otherwise, you might think of getting a second hand Lyman 450 or 4500. Of course you need appropriate sizing dies for that too. And top punches. That little crap drives you nuts. You can usually find all that stuff on ebay for less than new price from Lyman or Midway.
Coated bullets. I have no experience making those. But one thing to consider is that the coating adds to the size. I don't know if the companies that make those take that into consideration. I.e., do they size them a taste smaller before they coat them? Some that I've bought have made me wonder because they had a very snug fit
Living in the PNW, bullet casting was a Summer time activity. Casting indoors was simply "not on" for me. I have some outdoor work benches for when the weather is nice. I'd set up on one of those and also use a fan blowing across the work area to keep lead fumes moving away. One of my former co-workers was a fisherman, he made lead downrigger balls (which the Sound is full of). He was a dick about it, actually, that was his name, Dick. He'd get old car batteries given to him, he'd break those apart as a source of lead. Old, acid sufated cruddy lead. Made a mess, too. He started feeling ill, he went to his doctor and found out his blood was contaminated with lead. It takes a while to clear that out once you get it.
I was a bullet caster for many years. But within the past year, I've let all my casting stuff go. My ethic was to cast the expensive or hard-to-get bullets and not the smaller, cheaper, common ones. For example, I never cast .32, .38 or 9mm bullets. But I cast .41 Mag, 45 Auto and Colt, .45-70, 8x56R, etc. I concentrated on the ones where I'd save the most money.
One of the positives of reloading and bullet casting is when you are done with it, you get some of your money back when you let the equipment go.
With the store-bought Lyman #2 you know what hardness you are getting. But I used to be able to pretty much tell relative hardness by dropping a ball pein hammer on a bar of lead. Knowing already about how deep of a dent such a blow would make on pure lead, WW, Linotype, and other alloys. One time I got a big load of scrap lead from a glazier. Another time from a print shop that was going out of business, I filled the trunk of my car with Monotype, the differential housing was nearly on the snubbers. Made several trips like that.
If you have access to a shooting range after hours, there are berm mining possibilities. But don't do it in dry weather when all the dust is flying around in the air. Do it when the soil is wet. Then when you take the muddy scrap bullets home, use a large piece of sheet metal to wash them off. Like a sluice. The water keeps the lead dust under control as well as washing away the soil. After they are completely and utterly dry, you'll have to kind of refine these down in a larger pot. Don't use your casting pot. Get a single burner propane camp stove and a second hand iron pot for this. Save the waste jacket material you skim off, these are copper alloy that sells as scrap. The good metal that remains you can cast into ingots. You don't need to buy the Lee ingot mold, you can use a steel muffin tin or a cast iron corn bread mold.
OP, you picked 9mm and 40, two of the cheapest rounds to buy as factory ammo. Considering the capital outlay for equipment, those are gonna be expensive rounds for a while.
Sizing and lubing. Lee has those push-through sizing dies that work well enough. Otherwise, you might think of getting a second hand Lyman 450 or 4500. Of course you need appropriate sizing dies for that too. And top punches. That little crap drives you nuts. You can usually find all that stuff on ebay for less than new price from Lyman or Midway.
Coated bullets. I have no experience making those. But one thing to consider is that the coating adds to the size. I don't know if the companies that make those take that into consideration. I.e., do they size them a taste smaller before they coat them? Some that I've bought have made me wonder because they had a very snug fit
Living in the PNW, bullet casting was a Summer time activity. Casting indoors was simply "not on" for me. I have some outdoor work benches for when the weather is nice. I'd set up on one of those and also use a fan blowing across the work area to keep lead fumes moving away. One of my former co-workers was a fisherman, he made lead downrigger balls (which the Sound is full of). He was a dick about it, actually, that was his name, Dick. He'd get old car batteries given to him, he'd break those apart as a source of lead. Old, acid sufated cruddy lead. Made a mess, too. He started feeling ill, he went to his doctor and found out his blood was contaminated with lead. It takes a while to clear that out once you get it.
I was a bullet caster for many years. But within the past year, I've let all my casting stuff go. My ethic was to cast the expensive or hard-to-get bullets and not the smaller, cheaper, common ones. For example, I never cast .32, .38 or 9mm bullets. But I cast .41 Mag, 45 Auto and Colt, .45-70, 8x56R, etc. I concentrated on the ones where I'd save the most money.
One of the positives of reloading and bullet casting is when you are done with it, you get some of your money back when you let the equipment go.
Sounds like a lot of good advice on the casting front. I would add an obvious tip, " Don't drink alcohol while or before you cast" to it, impaired judgement can lead to some humdingers of burns. I bought that 20#pot, too, and never use it anymore, as it is too small. Bought an 8 quart Dutch oven in cast iron, and use that over a bayou style propane burner. A dipper works great, and doesn't plug up like your pot spout will. I ground the feet off the Lyman dipper, and it works perfect. ( The feet were hanging up on the mold.) The Lee dipper I bought was tiny, and lasted about one session before the handle self destructed. Never had the 2 hole molds, mine are all 6 or 8, and I like to run them two at a time to manage temperature. My biggest things to watch for quality control are the melting pot temperature, and the mold temperature. If your bullets look frosty, something ( probably the mold) is too hot. If the bullets are wrinkly, it's too cold. If the lead is making rainbow colors, and a lot of dross forms quickly on top, the pot is too hot. A thermometer is good to make sure you stay well below 900 F, where the lead vaporizes so you can breath it. I've never used the soot method, it really doesn't seem necessary on aluminum molds. Preheat the mold until the lube smokes a bit, and it should be real close to 400 degrees. ( I use the lube that comes with MP molds, but I've heard 2 stroke oil works well, too. It is wiped on the sprue cutter, and the pins, and kept away from the mold cavities. )
On polycoating, I really like the Hi Tek stuff. It's easy to do a good job, and doesn't seem to add noticeable thickness with three coats. Bonds well, doesn't seem to foul my guns. It's best to size the bullets AFTER coating, the coating is the lube to let it go through the sizer easily, and if you size them first, it closes the pores in the metal enough that adhesion of the coating can be an issue. I size mine on a Lee APP press ( inexpensive thing, but works well for the task) with their bullet sizing dies. Here are the instructions for the Hi Tek coating, to give you an idea of how it works. Coating Instructions - Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings
My process for that is basically shaking a few pounds of bullets in a tub with the liquid coating for 20 seconds, dumping em out to dry in a steel mesh basket, and after about 1/2 an hour, baking them for 5 minutes in a 400 degree oven in a single layer. The instructions say longer, but there's a color change that lets you know when the coating is cured. Not a lot of mess, as I keep two metal tubs, one for each color I use, and just leave them with that color in them, no cleanup.
On polycoating, I really like the Hi Tek stuff. It's easy to do a good job, and doesn't seem to add noticeable thickness with three coats. Bonds well, doesn't seem to foul my guns. It's best to size the bullets AFTER coating, the coating is the lube to let it go through the sizer easily, and if you size them first, it closes the pores in the metal enough that adhesion of the coating can be an issue. I size mine on a Lee APP press ( inexpensive thing, but works well for the task) with their bullet sizing dies. Here are the instructions for the Hi Tek coating, to give you an idea of how it works. Coating Instructions - Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings
My process for that is basically shaking a few pounds of bullets in a tub with the liquid coating for 20 seconds, dumping em out to dry in a steel mesh basket, and after about 1/2 an hour, baking them for 5 minutes in a 400 degree oven in a single layer. The instructions say longer, but there's a color change that lets you know when the coating is cured. Not a lot of mess, as I keep two metal tubs, one for each color I use, and just leave them with that color in them, no cleanup.
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TL DR -- couldn't find cheap 9mm bullets, or expensive ones for that matter, panic bought the casting stuff.
Agreed that these are generally cheap to buy, but what happened was that I counted bullets I have in stock, noted I only had about seven or eight hundred 9mm (it's the one I shoot least and so wasn't really paying attention), and went online to buy a couple boxes of bullets. Everywhere I looked "no stock" and so I went back to Midway and bought those strange bullets (*) because it was all I could find. Then I sort of panicked and bought the casting stuff: a pot, two molds, and as it turns out one sizer (for the .40 -- but only one? WTH? Maybe the 9 was sold out -- can't recall).
(*) Good Deal on Strange 9mm Bullets
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I don't size if I don't have to. I can generally shoot up to .359-.360 out of my 9's.
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My dad casts thousands of bullets as a retirement hobby. We need to hide the .357 molds from him because we have more .357 Mag and .38 Special reloads than we will shoot in this lifetime. His hobby quickly expanded into rifle bullets. Not just for my .45-70 loads but in 6.5, .308, .270, 7.5, and probably some others that I'm forgetting. Oh yeah, 385gr Maxi Ball muzzleloader slugs too. The smaller calibers are for low velocity plinking loads. You don't want to push lead too fast or you end up with it coating the inside of your barrel.
His setup is in a work shop with a roll up door opened and a fan for ventilation. He gets his blood tested for lead when he has his yearly physical and has never shown elevated levels.
His setup is in a work shop with a roll up door opened and a fan for ventilation. He gets his blood tested for lead when he has his yearly physical and has never shown elevated levels.
That's the one bit of casting stuff that I didn't let go of. I kept some lead, my iron melting pot, a dipper, a one burner propane camping stove, and my roundball mold for two black powder revolvers. Which to date I've never fired. Got all the fixin's, just never got around to shooting them. Had them for years. Too busy shooting other stuff.
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You've made the initial investment, consider it a pennies per day investment. You'll get about 60 115 gr 9mm from each pound of lead, sourcing lead at $1/lb will be instrumental in making the reloading cost effective.
Consider this component list:
Home cast bullets .03 (assumes 60 from a pound of lead)
Primer .03
Powder .03 (assumes a 4.5 grain load, 1,555 per pound)
Each loaded round costs a whopping.09, not capitalizing hardware costs or including brass. That's 4.50 for a box of 50 9mm reloads. Can't beat that with a stick.
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Where I'm at, with sales tax, I'm about 4 to 4.5c for primers but yeah, bullets have been my most expensive component -- about a dime for the bullet alone (pistol).
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a graphite lumber pencil for when the top of the blocks and the bottom of the sprue plate get smeared
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Casting your own should save you at least 50% on bullet cost. For me, that's part of reloading, cost savings. The other part is therapeutic.
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I found keeping a fan running to be helpful when casting, even when outdoors. Fluxing gets pretty smoky. Keep kids and pets away. Avoid distractions and alcohol.
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Welding gloves/gauntlets -
We call these lip-flops in UK, - but what our friends in Eugene OR call thongs - apologies for thinking that was what you call them in the PNW.
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