New Reloader, Have Question About Titegroup

[Florida6624]

So just to confirm, we are talking about copper plated round nosed bullets, correct? So, this is from Berry's website

• Load data for our Superior Plated Bullets® can be found in any manual or on any powder manufacturer's website.
• Cast or jacketed data with the same grain weight and profile will work with our bullets.

In most reloading resources, there is a difference between cast and jacketed, usually pretty small, but it is there. I like to look at the overlap and start on the light side. Looking at the Speer #15 manual, the data is for jacketed or lead, not plated. Berry's notes above that either will work. I would not use Gold Dot loads as a guideline as they can be pretty different (the 4.8 you note in the OP). I checked my load data for 9mm going back to 1986 and sorry, have loaded very few 115 gr (prefer 124 gr) and none were with Tightgroup. Do like the powder, meters and shoots well in my equipment and guns. The 2021 Hodgdon manual shows a starting load of 3.9 with a 115 gr LRN .356 COL 1.100 so it looks like you are in the ballpark.

Seating depth is the biggest issue with 9mm. Small difference will affect pressures significantly. Consistency is important here when developing loads. I'm only on my first cup of tea this morning so triple check any of my numbers! Good question you ask. Hope you get some help here.

Thanks so very, very much for this info. This is helpful to get. I have been working on dummy loads and think I have a good O.A.L. (1.143) but will not know until I fire one of the loads. One of the problems I am having on the dummy loads is the crimp. The bullet will spin on a light or heavy crimp. I have got to work that out before I start making a live load. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Florida6624]

I will ad to this^^. Always "plunk" test a finished round in the barrel of the gun you're loading for.

Using the above test you can adjust the OAL as you desire. Do realize that shortening OAL substantially below established printed data can/will have an affect on peak pressure.

Thanks for the info. I do the plunk test on the 40 S&W and that IS a big help. Thanks again.

 

[Florida6624]

Using TiteGroup :

Easy to double charge with this powder.
Therefore, develop a reloading regimen that double-checks case powder level.

Don't leave in powder measure hopper overnight.
(eats some plastics)

Yes on the double charge. I have come close on other loads and so I did figure a way to keep that from happening. Thanks so much for you in put.

 

[WillametteWill]

I've used as little as 2.5 grains of titegroup with 9mm 115 grain poly coated. Usually around 3 grains would best.

I've heard Tightgroup burns hot and can be an issue melting the poly coat. Did you have any issues with this? I've seen some brands of poly coated bullets that note they are good with hot burning powders.

One of the problems I am having on the dummy loads is the crimp. The bullet will spin on a light or heavy crimp. I have got to work that out before I start making a live load.

Finding a good crimp die is important. I've had some that could just not get to work. My Dillon die seems to work fine. Any bullet pushback with 9mm can spike pressure. It sounds like you are on top of this. Happy reloading!

 

[Member 34319]

I've heard Tightgroup burns hot and can be an issue melting the poly coat. Did you have any issues with this? I've seen some brands of poly coated bullets that note they are good with hot burning powders.

Finding a good crimp die is important. I've had some that could just not get to work. My Dillon die seems to work fine. Any bullet pushback with 9mm can spike pressure. It sounds like you are on top of this. Happy reloading!

Haven't noticed anything strange using various brands of polymer coated bullets.

If you really think about it, the plastic should be melting with the friction created by it going down the barrel at 800-1400 feet per second. The powder burning behind it at whatever temp don't worry me.

 

[ron]

I am having on the dummy loads is the crimp. The bullet will spin on a light or heavy crimp.

If the brass is properly sixed you should not be able to move it. Even with no crimp. Something wrong
with your sixer die or adjustment. I use Titegroup for 2 reasons. #1 Excellent accuracy and #2 almost
2,000 rounds out of a pound of powder! Titegroup is a fast burning powder like Bullseye but a lot cleaner.
Bullseye is the old go to powder for competition pistol target loads. Titegroup and Berry's cheap 9 mm
plated bullets give excellent accuracy results.

 

[4x401]

The type of bullet (CPRN, jacketed, lead) isn't as important as weight. All projectiles are loaded according to weight for the most part, so as long as you stay in the same weight range and work up from the bottom there are no other issues to be concerned with.

I agree with this to a point.

Jacketed and copper plated bullets have a higher coefficient of friction than lead. Which will obviously effect pressure during the firing sequence.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Thanks so very, very much for this info. This is helpful to get. I have been working on dummy loads and think I have a good O.A.L. (1.143) but will not know until I fire one of the loads. One of the problems I am having on the dummy loads is the crimp. The bullet will spin on a light or heavy crimp. I have got to work that out before I start making a live load. Thanks again for your help.

It sounds like your flaring die/adjustment is off. With a properly seated bullet the cartridge will then often have a pronounced or subtle coke bottle appearance and will not move before "crimping" or removing the flare/bell.
You do not want the bullet to be able to wiggle, spin or move in any way before crimping.

 

[eb in oregon]

I agree with this to a point.

Jacketed and copper plated bullets have a higher coefficient of friction than lead. Which will obviously effect pressure during the firing sequence.

Indeed, so a person can substitute lead for plated and jacketed bullets with the same charge and have less pressure. And realistically speaking you're talking about tenths of a grain and not full grains.

 

[Mikej]

Indeed, so a person can substitute lead for plated and jacketed bullets with the same charge and have less pressure. And realistically speaking you're talking about tenths of a grain and not full grains.

Cast and plated bullets are generally recommended to be loaded to lower velocities than full metal jacketed bullets. Leading can happen with cast and the plating can come of plated bullets if pushed to the high end velocity of the spectrum.

And talking TiteGroup and 9mm there's not a lot of room between Min and Max powder in 9mm. That's the reason I use HS-6 in 9mm and .40.

 

[WillametteWill]

If the brass is properly sixed you should not be able to move it. Even with no crimp. Something wrong
with your sixer die or adjustment.

Yes, this. I failed to note this when talking about sizing dies. This part is actually more important in that if the case is not sized properly from the start the crimp likely will not fix the issue. Great point @ron !

 

[deadeye]

Thanks so very, very much for this info. This is helpful to get. I have been working on dummy loads and think I have a good O.A.L. (1.143) but will not know until I fire one of the loads. One of the problems I am having on the dummy loads is the crimp. The bullet will spin on a light or heavy crimp. I have got to work that out before I start making a live load. Thanks again for your help.

Like others have said you need to look at your die set up, especially the expander. You may want to also get a Lee factory crimp die. I would also recommend not making a large batch of loads until you try a few to make sure that they will cycle the pistol/ rifle unless of course you have a revolver that can burn them up............

This may help you adjust your dies.

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/Pistol3.pdf

 

[eb in oregon]

Cast and plated bullets are generally recommended to be loaded to lower velocities than full metal jacketed bullets. Leading can happen with cast and the plating can come of plated bullets if pushed to the high end velocity of the spectrum.

And talking TiteGroup and 9mm there's not a lot of room between Min and Max powder in 9mm. That's the reason I use HS-6 in 9mm and .40.

Cast bullets are generally recommended to not exceed about 1,200 fps (depending on alloy or gas check) so unless exceeding that velocity, yes the same charges can be used. You do what you gotta do and I'll do the same. I've loaded a lot of lead bullets in numerous calibers and unless the load exceeds 1,200 fps I've not had an issue with any powder. I've driven gas checked .30 carbine bullets to 1,800 with no leading. But you do get a tiny amount in the gas system so it needs to be cleaned occasionally.

 

[Florida6624]

Like others have said you need to look at your die set up, especially the expander. You may want to also get a Lee factory crimp die. I would also recommend not making a large batch of loads until you try a few to make sure that they will cycle the pistol/ rifle unless of course you have a revolver that can burn them up............

This may help you adjust your dies.

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/Pistol3.pdf

Thanks so much for the info. I will look at the link that you sent. I do have the Lee factory crimp die and am not sure what is going on with it. The bullet does fine until I crimp it. I tried the plunk test without crimping and all does well. I may not crimp them. I have loaded only 10 and plan to see how they shoot before moving forward. Thanks again.

 

[Florida6624]

Indeed, so a person can substitute lead for plated and jacketed bullets with the same charge and have less pressure. And realistically speaking you're talking about tenths of a grain and not full grains.

Thanks, this is a real learning curve. Any info you give is always appreciated.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Cast bullets are generally recommended to not exceed about 1,200 fps (depending on alloy or gas check) so unless exceeding that velocity, yes the same charges can be used. You do what you gotta do and I'll do the same. I've loaded a lot of lead bullets in numerous calibers and unless the load exceeds 1,200 fps I've not had an issue with any powder. I've driven gas checked .30 carbine bullets to 1,800 with no leading. But you do get a tiny amount in the gas system so it needs to be cleaned occasionally.

For conventially lubed/greased bullets. With the easy to do and or buy powder coated bullets it's higher.

 

[quneur]

Email Speer. Although you're likely to get an answer like, "That bullet was not tested with that particular powder."

 

[DirectDrive]

Looks like the question has been asked before.
See post #9 for a more detailed response from Berry's :

Load for Titegroup and plated bullet

I bought a bunch of Berry's copper plated 9mm bullets (115 gr RN) but can't find a load using Titegroup. I can always get another brand of powder if that's what I need to do, but I'd prefer to limit the different types I have. Lee has a load for a 115 grain jacket bullet with a starting load...

www.thehighroad.org

X-Treme and Berry's are probably the most common plated bullets that you will come across.
Titegroup data in here :

https://xtremebullets.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/RELOADING%20MANUAL2021.pdf

Pro Tip :
I've printed and have had bound several different manuals on different subjects from PDF files.
If the manual is in color, then a color printer works best.
It also works best, if your printer can print both sides of a page (duplex printing).
Not super-necessary, though.
Take your printed pages to an Office Max (or similar) and they will bind it for a small charge.
Choose your cover types and binder types (plastic or spring)

 

[dangerranger60]

I used to load a lot of plated bullets. And the advise I got at the time was load them using cast lead data. That was both from Berrys and Extreme.
Hogdons data shows a start of 3.9 gr Titegroup up to 4.3 gr. under a 115 gr cast lead bullet. I had settled on a 4.0 gr load. it seemed to be right at 1100 fps. from my gun. it was a good target load.
I now load 124 gr Powder Coated bullets. They get 3.8 gr. of Titegroup. again a target load.

I have not had any issues with the powder burning through the PC. Titegroup is fast burning but not a hot burn.
I mainly like it because I get 1700 loads from a pound of powder. And it burns clean in target loads. Good Luck DR

 

[dangerranger60]

One other thing I learned about plated bullets is they take little to no crimp. Too much crimp will distort the bullet and accuracy will fall off quickly.
The bullet should sit on top of a resized and flared case, but when it is seated it should not bulge the brass. The same goes for cast lead bullets. Good Luck DR