Oregon NEW OREGON BILLS

[ilikegunspdx]

They're winning because gun owners just won't unify and vote en bloc for 2A. They're winning because most gun owners do not consider 2A to be the single issue to vote for over everything.
They're winning because gun owners would rather attack each other for not fitting their definition of "pro2A" gun owners.
They're winning because gun owners are constantly divided and having a lot of infighting. It is abundantly clear just from looking at several threads that gun owners just refuse to work together to defeat anti-2A., because gun owners by and large are independent minded and distrustful of "group think/actions".

Also they are not voting period. I mean even before you get to a specific issue, weighing one thing or another, etc. they have no vote at all because they are not voting.

If there was even a slightly larger turnout in OR we would not have had to deal with m114 at all. Now legislature feels like they have a mandate to shove this crap down our throats in OR. I realize they probably would try anyway but now they feel even more emboldened.

I think alex1401 said in one of the other threads it's really simple and is a matter of numbers. I agree with that and think more Rs than Ds = status quo at worst. More Ds than R = more attempts at gun control. It's really that simple right now. Therefore attempts to get more Rs to vote can be meaningful but it's got to be a serious effort and reach a lot of people otherwise two liberal counties will continue to decide everything for the whole state. My opinion anyway fwiw.

 

[FnM]

I can't understand why all the states don't use the same electoral college process. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. The entire state of Oregon/Washington is held hostage by Portland/Seattle… and the Californicons who migrated there.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I can't understand why all the states don't use the same electoral college process. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. The entire state of Oregon/Washington is held hostage by Portland/Seattle… and the Californicons who migrated there.

I'd prefer either just make it one house for everyone (Nebraska model); or make the Senate 1 Senator per County regardless of population. That could go a long way towards balancing the Legislature.. but.. a major SCOTUS decision that has stood since then, required that State Legislatures be proportioned to population... which was why Nebraska went to an unicameral system (only one chamber).

Edit, my reasoning for going to one House/Senate/whatever it called;

What's the point of having two chambers, if the Districts are drawn in the same exact way, based on population? It's redundant, and focuses both majorities into the most populous areas of Oregon at the expense of everywhere else. If it's gonna be that way, at least do it with one chamber..

Or (my preference) set up Senate so that it's 1 per County. That's still 36 Senators but instead of the majority being concentrated in the Portland Metro area; you'd be able to claim "equitable" voting districts, and can allocate State Senate funds to counties instead of districts.

 

[Yarome]

I agree that, to a degree, there is a lack of cohesion among 2A supporters.. and it get's harped on "it's our own fault" over and over again, but I think it's largely missing the bigger picture.

How do the democrats garner so much support? By being willing to undermine our society, fundamental values and ignore established laws in exchange for political power. Something that the more median and conservatives are unwilling to do.

IE:, To gain the immigrant votes, open the borders. If you want black support, encourage and protect violent protestors. If you want the fringe criminal vote, go soft on crime. If you want your agenda to be dominate, control the narrative by censoring free speech. If you want abcdefg+ support, force "equality" policies.

To make the masses pliable... get them while they are young with indocrination programs in the schools. Undermine parental influence with secrecy policies.

The list goes on... but the point being... "we" for the most part are not willing to make those concessions and "burn down our own house" simply for the sake of political power.

IMO, that hobbles our efforts to a much greater extent and keeps us fully in "damage control mode" than just not enough 2A supporters are voting or voting in the right way. Not that it isn't a factor, but harping on it over and over while ignoring the bigger picture does nothing but create even more division.

How do you turn the tide? Accountability... or... wait it out until people start to realize they got exactly what they asked for.. and now it's ALL bubblgummed up! In some area's that's already starting to happen.

 

[Yarome]

.... I forgot... polarize the country with a blood red naziesk state of the union address to fabricate a common enemy for portions of the population to collectively focus on.

Can't lie. That was a good one. It worked for Hitler didn't it!??

 

[fmvolume86]

Also they are not voting period. I mean even before you get to a specific issue, weighing one thing or another, etc. they have no vote at all because they are not voting.

If there was even a slightly larger turnout in OR we would not have had to deal with m114 at all. Now legislature feels like they have a mandate to shove this crap down our throats in OR. I realize they probably would try anyway but now they feel even more emboldened.

I think alex1401 said in one of the other threads it's really simple and is a matter of numbers. I agree with that and think more Rs than Ds = status quo at worst. More Ds than R = more attempts at gun control. It's really that simple right now. Therefore attempts to get more Rs to vote can be meaningful but it's got to be a serious effort and reach a lot of people otherwise two liberal counties will continue to decide everything for the whole state. My opinion anyway fwiw.

I wonder how many don't because they feel like their vote does't count..... and don't forget the many who leftt the state instead of standing up to fight back at the polls, more Rs leaving means handing the state to the Dems

 

[Yarome]

I wonder how many don't because they feel like their vote does't count..... and don't forget the many who leftt the state instead of standing up to fight back at the polls.

I've never understood that mentality. The reality is that not voting IS voting... and it counts. Not cancelling an opposing vote is no different than voting against yourself.

But maybe that's just "old math" and "new math" says different(?)

Sometimes you have to know when to cut your arm off to save the body.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I've never understood that mentality. The reality is that not voting IS voting... and it counts. Not cancelling an opposing vote is no different than voting against yourself.

But maybe that's just "old math" and "new math" says different(?)

That's the crux of the problem Imo. If a weak army invades and the defending army thinks it's pointless and doesn't bother to put up a fight the defenders have already lost, even if they had superior strength.

 

[FnM]

I don't think any party is immune to the corruption of power. That's just human nature. The beauty of our Country's law of the land is the system of checks and balances to keep power in check. We collectively abandoned our post and in doing so relinquished power.
We elect those who make promises they all but never keep. Our Justice system is anything but equitable, crime is rampant , and unchecked. And the American Dream? Getting ahead for my generation is twice as difficult as my parents and I can't imagine my kids are going to fair better. So you tell me, are those who don't vote without reason for feeling disillusioned.?

 

[Stomper]

You forgot the "BOOM BOX" !
View attachment 1414190

The late 80's - early 90's called….. they want all their D-cells back!!

 

[FnM]

I've never understood that mentality. The reality is that not voting IS voting... and it counts. Not cancelling an opposing vote is no different than voting against yourself.

But maybe that's just "old math" and "new math" says different(?)

Sometimes you have to know when to cut your arm off to save the body.

There is a large body of people who don't vote and the Democrats have dominated in their success in corralling them. They also profoundly benefitted from their support and appeasement of radical groups.
How many Conservatives took down their flags or removed bumper stickers because they feared retaliation and property damage from radical groups? It wasn't unwarranted but it played right into their hand.
We have to stand up for our values even if that means getting a black eye. "I dont want to: make waves, get involved, cause a scene, or fuel the fire."
I agree with Yarome. You may not cast a ballot but it has just as much weight as those who do. The same holds true when you stop raising your flag, draw the shades when the mob attacks your neighbors house, or remove that Jesus sticker because you don't want your tires slashed.

 

[Librarian]

A couple articles to read - https://amgreatness.com/2023/04/30/a-willingness-to-win/

The Democrats, like Frederick, will do what it takes to gain victories, while their opponents appeal in vain to high principle. While the Democrats do have the support of our leading cultural and political institutions, they also enjoy another significant advantage: They fight relentlessly, and with a greater determination than their opponents.

and https://amgreatness.com/2023/04/30/conservatism-inc-fiddles-while-the-republic-burns/

Anyone invested in liberty, free markets, and a fundamental respect for life should be horrified by the Left's obsession with complete power. But this has been the trend for years. One should have a healthy, if only grudging, respect for the sheer force of effort, skill, and chicanery the Left perpetrates every day in the pursuit of its goals. The Left is wired for the pursuit of political power because they understand a very simple truism that my organization, American Majority, constantly emphasizes: politics is policy. The Left knows that if it has political power it gets to implement whatever hideous policy ideas they have—and, as we have seen, they have a lot of them.

 

[Lugg]

I can't understand why all the states don't use the same electoral college process. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. The entire state of Oregon/Washington is held hostage by Portland/Seattle… and the Californicons who migrated there.

I believe the population has grown enough in the United States to have an electoral college for Governors, at the state level. Each county in a state could have a vote. It works on the national level for the President, it could work in the states. That would at least give a voice to the counties.

 

[arakboss]

They're winning because gun owners just won't unify and vote en bloc for 2A. They're winning because most gun owners do not consider 2A to be the single issue to vote for over everything.
They're winning because gun owners would rather attack each other for not fitting their definition of "pro2A" gun owners.
They're winning because gun owners are constantly divided and having a lot of infighting. It is abundantly clear just from looking at several threads that gun owners just refuse to work together to defeat anti-2A., because gun owners by and large are independent minded and distrustful of "group think/actions".

Maybe they're winning because the majority are in favor of more gun restrictions.

Fox News poll finds voters overwhelmingly want restrictions on guns

87% of voters surveyed said they support requiring criminal background checks for all gun buyers.

www.axios.com

 

[PiratePast40]

Maybe they're winning because the majority are in favor of more gun restrictions.

Fox News poll finds voters overwhelmingly want restrictions on guns

87% of voters surveyed said they support requiring criminal background checks for all gun buyers.

www.axios.com

I'm afraid UBCs is one of the examples of turning up the heat gradually so that it's not noticed. We've all gotten used to it so are accepting it as normal.

Since we're already going down this rabbit hole, I'd like to stress that all politics start on the local level. School board elections are going on right now and I believe they do indeed reflect the pulse of the community. If you want conservative values, the local level is where it needs to start. I honestly don't know if we have a chance to turn this around, but I know for sure that we won't get anywhere if we don't participate.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I believe the population has grown enough in the United States to have an electoral college for Governors, at the state level. Each county in a state could have a vote. It works on the national level for the President, it could work in the states. That would at least give a voice to the counties.

We used to have a similar setup for State Senate's in which counties were the equivalent of States by having 1 State Senator per County.


A landmark 1964 Supreme Court decision Reynolds vs Sims under chief justice Earl Warren ended the ability for states to balance their legislatures more equitably with cities vs rural, ironically enough by claiming "civil rights".

The principle that won that case is "one person, one vote. Land doesn't vote, people do.". And ever since then, only Nebraska has abolished the two-house model for its State Legislature.

Edit
Why do you think the current Electoral college system is being attacked so hard by one particular party in favor of making elections more "democratic" with direct elections/simple majority to get the win?

 

[tkdguy]

114 could have been beaten if united.

 

[arakboss]

114 could have been beaten if united.

I think even if M114 had been beaten by a slim majority, the antis in Salem would have stepped in like they already have. Mass shootings bring more and more people over to the antigun side everytime they happen. We need to see more events that bring them back to the progun side. Riots seem to do that to some degree but we haven't seen to much of that in Oregon lately. Mass home invasions by unarmed criminals might convince some people they need to keep guns around. Those events are rare.

 

[peteNW503]

I think even if M114 had been beaten by a slim majority, the antis in Salem would have stepped in like they already have. Mass shootings bring more and more people over to the antigun side everytime they happen. We need to see more events that bring them back to the progun side. Riots seem to do that to some degree but we haven't seen to much of that in Oregon lately. Mass home invasions by unarmed criminals might convince some people they need to keep guns around. Those events are rare.

Unfortunately that is what they want. They don't bring awareness to the good guy with a gun. ultimately that doesn't help with pushing their anti gun narrative. Personally i think discussing on policy change right after a mass shootings shouldn't be allowed. Specially when emotions are high and rational thought apparently goes out the window. I want a " cooling off" period too!

 

[Aero Denezol]

Last Fall I had several gun owners argued with me that 114 would "never pass", and then proceeded to vote "D" all the way down the ticket, apparently comfortable that our rights were safe despite what was going on in Washington and California. They waved me off like I was a paranoid idiot.

You know who you are.

We have a lot to do with all of this. A lot.