Oregon NEW OREGON BILLS

[3MTA3]

I agree with all you just said and sorry to turn it political.... but as gun owners the reality is there's only one party taking our rights away. that's just factual at the end of the day when these bills pass in Oregon and we are all effected there's a specific entity that is who is doing all this

Consider that when you identify someone as your enemy, they in turn will do the same with you. Conflict is not always rational, so each of you may do things against your own self interest while in conflict to gain a perceived advantage.

Instead of taking a militant stance we should study our opposition and learn from their successes in order to make our own gains. This begins by ceasing to underestimate them. Identify their strengths and adopt them. When you know their strength you can also identify their weaknesses in order to exploit them. All the usual Sun Tzu stuff...

If we keep doing what we have been doing we will keep losing until we have nothing left to lose.

 

[fmvolume86]

We all need to remember that either side of the isle in Oregon Left or Right , Americans who value the right to own firearms exist among all colors, beliefs, and values. And that I do believe in coming together to safe guard our rights. We have common ground on this and we need to unite against those who wish to take away our rights.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Consider that when you identify someone as your enemy, they in turn will do the same with you. Conflict is not always rational, so each of you may do things against your own self interest while in conflict to gain a perceived advantage.

Instead of taking a militant stance we should study our opposition and learn from their successes in order to make our own gains. This begins by ceasing to underestimate them. Identify their strengths and adopt them. When you know their strength you can also identify their weaknesses in order to exploit them. All the usual Sun Tzu stuff...

If we keep doing what we have been doing we will keep losing until we have nothing left to lose.

FINALLY! Someone who gets it.

Stop going to rallies and giving the same ol' tired "Muh Constitution!" stance. Lower yourself to their level and argue based on feelings, race, gender, and sexuality. That REALLY IS all they care about. You are NEVER going to win them over using 1990s Guns & Ammo editorial talking points. Those days are long over.

To the radicals and Progressives, talk about how gun control victimizes "people of color", "women of power", the "LGBTQ+" and "allows fascism to take hold and victimize black trans queers" and all of that usual nonsense they worry so much about. But don't be condescending about it...be serious. Even if it is BS.

To the Moderates, you need to try and convince them that gun control not only victimizes minorities, but also rejects the proper teaching of gun safety and leaves it in the hands of Hollywood and the ignorant. Persuade them that their "I support gun rights but...." argument has never worked, and that a more pro-gun stance is needed.

That's the only way you are going to win places like Oregon and Washington back to being pro-gun. If we can't do that, then we will fail, and billionaire activist organizations run by snobbish women who look like 1980s librarians will win.

 

[LoloMama53]

We all need to remember that either side of the isle in Oregon Left or Right , Americans who value the right to own firearms exist among all colors, beliefs, and values. And that I do believe in coming together to safe guard our rights. We have common ground on this and we need to unite against those who wish to take away our rights.

Agreed, wholeheartedly!

 

[PiratePast40]

FINALLY! Someone who gets it.

Stop going to rallies and giving the same ol' tired "Muh Constitution!" stance. Lower yourself to their level and argue based on feelings, race, gender, and sexuality. That REALLY IS all they care about. You are NEVER going to win them over using 1990s Guns & Ammo editorial talking points. Those days are long over.

To the radicals and Progressives, talk about how gun control victimizes "people of color", "women of power", the "LGBTQ+" and "allows fascism to take hold and victimize black trans queers" and all of that usual nonsense they worry so much about. But don't be condescending about it...be serious. Even if it is BS.

To the Moderates, you need to try and convince them that gun control not only victimizes minorities, but also rejects the proper teaching of gun safety and leaves it in the hands of Hollywood and the ignorant. Persuade them that their "I support gun rights but...." argument has never worked, and that a more pro-gun stance is needed.

That's the only way you are going to win places like Oregon and Washington back to being pro-gun. If we can't do that, then we will fail, and billionaire activist organizations run by snobbish women who look like 1980s librarians will win.

There was not a single speaker at any of the rallies or meetings opposing 114, or rallies afterward that only talked about "muh constitution". If you're listening to public speakers that don't have an intelectual argument, you're going to the wrong meetings. You are helping to spread a myth as bad as the Charleston loophole.

 

[Member 83510]

FINALLY! Someone who gets it.

Stop going to rallies and giving the same ol' tired "Muh Constitution!" stance. Lower yourself to their level and argue based on feelings, race, gender, and sexuality. That REALLY IS all they care about. You are NEVER going to win them over using 1990s Guns & Ammo editorial talking points. Those days are long over.

To the radicals and Progressives, talk about how gun control victimizes "people of color", "women of power", the "LGBTQ+" and "allows fascism to take hold and victimize black trans queers" and all of that usual nonsense they worry so much about. But don't be condescending about it...be serious. Even if it is BS.

To the Moderates, you need to try and convince them that gun control not only victimizes minorities, but also rejects the proper teaching of gun safety and leaves it in the hands of Hollywood and the ignorant. Persuade them that their "I support gun rights but...." argument has never worked, and that a more pro-gun stance is needed.

That's the only way you are going to win places like Oregon and Washington back to being pro-gun. If we can't do that, then we will fail, and billionaire activist organizations run by snobbish women who look like 1980s librarians will win.

On top of all of this, help introduce people to shooting as a hobby. A lot of people have had little to no exposure to firearms, or worse their minimal exposure was a bad experience like an uncle thinking it would be funny to have their first shooting experience be a 12 gauge shotgun. When my wife and I got together she had very little exposure to guns besides shooting a .22 rifle a few times when camping as a kid. Now she owns two pistols and routinely goes shooting with me; practicing skills like shooting on the move, drawing from concealment, firing from behind cover, etc. My mother and step-father both got into shooting recently and want to attend classes to get better. That's 3 people I've been able to expose to firearms and educate them on the topic of the laws, false narratives pushed by anti-gun groups, and so on. Image if every pro-gun person in the PNW did the same and got 3 people introduced to the hobby, we'd be seeing hundreds of thousands of new people joining, or at least partially joining, our side.

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

1. Soap box (done)
2. Ballot box (done)
3. Jury box (in process)
4. Ammo box (standing by)

You forgot the "BOOM BOX" !

 

[PiratePast40]

Consider that when you identify someone as your enemy, they in turn will do the same with you. Conflict is not always rational, so each of you may do things against your own self interest while in conflict to gain a perceived advantage.

Instead of taking a militant stance we should study our opposition and learn from their successes in order to make our own gains. This begins by ceasing to underestimate them. Identify their strengths and adopt them. When you know their strength you can also identify their weaknesses in order to exploit them. All the usual Sun Tzu stuff...

If we keep doing what we have been doing we will keep losing until we have nothing left to lose.

When I look at HB 2002 and SJR33, there is no way I can consider these people allies in any way. I see pure evil, the normalization of pedophlia, extreme sexualization of children, and stripping parental rights and responsibilities. This is the core of pure evil. Anyone that has spent any time on the capitol, or listening to testimony and remonstratives of Senators Thatcher and Linthicum will see that they don't mince any words, and hits them right between the eyes where they deserve it.

Stop molly coddling the gun grabbers. Show up to testify, write committee members, and get invloved. If any of you have personally spoken to your Democrat reprsentatives, you'll soon learn that they don't give two chits about what you have to say. They will repeat the lies fed to them by LEVO, MDA, Giffords, and Bloomberg.

Stop molly-coddling the gun grabbers. All they will do is give you a quick kick in the nutz.

It's possible that some who have been brainwashed by their rhetoric MIGHT be willing to discuss why their heros have been lying through their teeth to them, but it won't be many. I agree that our message needs to go out to those that might be persuadable, and decorum is necessary, but those in the legislature, and those that support them deserve no quarter.

If your emails, conversations, calls, and meetings with Democrats in the capitol are full of love and understanding, you're wasting your time.

 

[Jade Falcon]

There was not a single speaker at any of the rallies or meetings opposing 114, or rallies afterward that only talked about "muh constitution". If you're listening to public speakers that don't have an intelectual argument, you're going to the wrong meetings. You are helping to spread a myth as bad as the Charleston loophole.

That was more of a generalization on my part.....the point being: try a new argument. If the same arguments that we've been throwing out for years aren't working, then it's time to try something new.

Unfortunately, I think it's time to lower ourselves to their level, as described in my post. I think that's the only thing that they'll listen to.

 

[ma96782]

Awwww......Come On Man.






Is that you Brandon?

Aloha, Mark

 

[Yarome]

Unfortunately, I think it's time to lower ourselves to their level, as described in my post. I think that's the only thing that they'll listen to.

Conform to think and act within their delusional world in an effort to maintain the principles the nation was founded on? Think like them, act like them, you become "them".

I'mmmmma gonna take a pass.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Think @Jade Falcon is talking about getting down to using emotions and feelings to our advantages. Say maybe like..

"If all cops are bubblegums; who's gonna protect you and yours?"

"What are you gonna do when the government comes for you, because you disagree with them?"

Nah. These are too logical and not emotional enough. Honestly though..


I don't know?

"Police won't protect your butts! Good luck with life!"

 

[Yarome]

Think @Jade Falcon is talking about getting down to using emotions and feelings to our advantages. Say maybe like..

"If all cops are bubblegums; who's gonna protect you and yours?"

"What are you gonna do when the government comes for you, because you disagree with them?"

Nah. These are too logical and not emotional enough. Honestly though..

Not easy going full emotions, is it!!?

You could be right, though. I took it more as we need to get our own child spokesperson that was saved when a good guy with a gun in the crowd planted a would be bad guy. Do the whole social media "I wouldn't be alive today" wild eyed foaming at the mouth rant thing.....

Maybe start up a "mom's for gun's" org with T-shirts.... or a "blue lives matter" group to go burn up some cities... maybe shut down some highways and do some auto body work on random strangers cars... find out where the opposition leaders live and go trash their lawns and threaten their children....

That sort.

 

[3MTA3]

When I look at HB 2002 and SJR33, there is no way I can consider these people allies in any way. I see pure evil, the normalization of pedophlia, extreme sexualization of children, and stripping parental rights and responsibilities. This is the core of pure evil. Anyone that has spent any time on the capitol, or listening to testimony and remonstratives of Senators Thatcher and Linthicum will see that they don't mince any words, and hits them right between the eyes where they deserve it.

Stop molly coddling the gun grabbers. Show up to testify, write committee members, and get invloved. If any of you have personally spoken to your Democrat reprsentatives, you'll soon learn that they don't give two chits about what you have to say. They will repeat the lies fed to them by LEVO, MDA, Giffords, and Bloomberg.

Stop molly-coddling the gun grabbers. All they will do is give you a quick kick in the nutz.

It's possible that some who have been brainwashed by their rhetoric MIGHT be willing to discuss why their heros have been lying through their teeth to them, but it won't be many. I agree that our message needs to go out to those that might be persuadable, and decorum is necessary, but those in the legislature, and those that support them deserve no quarter.

If your emails, conversations, calls, and meetings with Democrats in the capitol are full of love and understanding, you're wasting your time.

I don't advocate molly coddling anyone or even making compromises. What I do advocate is to study and know your opposition. They have been and continue to pile up wins while we wind up crying in our beers. Until we learn how they keep winning we will continue to keep losing.

Another point is that not everyone who currently supports gun control is our enemy. They are reacting to the mass misinformation they are being fed my sellout news and politicians that seek to control us.

If you confront them as an enemy they will shut down and get defensive. We need them to be able to think rationally in order to change their opinion and consequently how and who they vote for.

 

[CamoDeafie]

If you confront them as an enemy they will shut down and get defensive. We need them to be able to think rationally in order to change their opinion and consequently how and who they vote for.

But they already see us as their enemies to disarm and to control. How do you have a honest discussion with someone who already decided that I'm the wrong one before it even started? talking about the anti2A activists/supporters

 

[3MTA3]

But they already see us as their enemies to disarm and to control. How do you have a honest discussion with someone who already decided that I'm the wrong one before it even started? talking about the anti2A activists/supporters

The true believers, yes. More people are open to new information than you may think, but they need to be receptive. This is similar to how many of us respond. We feel like we are backed into a corner and so shut down our ability to learn.

If we keep doing what we have been doing, the true enemies will keep winning. If we don't change our tactics and fight smarter we are going to lose.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

But they already see us as their enemies to disarm and to control. How do you have a honest discussion with someone who already decided that I'm the wrong one before it even started? talking about the anti2A activists/supporters

You dont have that discussion because they are not open to things that go against their slogans and social media repeated sayings. They are not capable of automnomous thought for the most part.

Skip to 2:41 mark here where Nazi executed german philosopher described what was going on with ordinary Germans under the third reich. They turned over their self will and autonomous thinking and adopted what the social community around them said to adopt. Things that we see as "evil" such as taking a person rights, are easily capable to them in this non-autonomous state (which boenhoffer calls "stupidity").

Having a discussion with them will have exactly the same results as a majority of Ds "debating" an AWB with Rs in WA legislature. The vote was already decided before any debate began because they are not open to listening or changing their minds. Their minds are not open to learning or discovering the truth in this state of "stupidity" (as boenhoffer calls it, doesn't mean IQ).

 

[Jade Falcon]

Alright, well, by all means, keep doing what you're doing. They're winning, we're losing. Good luck.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Alright, well, by all means, keep doing what you're doing. They're winning, we're losing. Good luck.

They're winning because gun owners just won't unify and vote en bloc for 2A. They're winning because most gun owners do not consider 2A to be the single issue to vote for over everything.
They're winning because gun owners would rather attack each other for not fitting their definition of "pro2A" gun owners.
They're winning because gun owners are constantly divided and having a lot of infighting. It is abundantly clear just from looking at several threads that gun owners just refuse to work together to defeat anti-2A., because gun owners by and large are independent minded and distrustful of "group think/actions".

 

[Jade Falcon]

They're winning because gun owners just won't unify and vote en bloc for 2A. They're winning because most gun owners do not consider 2A to be the single issue to vote for over everything.
They're winning because gun owners would rather attack each other for not fitting their definition of "pro2A" gun owners.
They're winning because gun owners are constantly divided and having a lot of infighting. It is abundantly clear just from looking at several threads that gun owners just refuse to work together to defeat anti-2A., because gun owners by and large are independent minded and distrustful of "group think/actions".

I think that's part of it. I think the other part, however, is the fact that we're outnumbered in places like WA, OR, CA, NY, CO, NY, etc etc. I saw a map recently that said that between 23% to 27% of the total population in WA and OR respectively were gun owners. Idaho is 53%....they don't have this problem, and that's a huge reason why. I've always said: if the majority of people in OR were gun owners, it would be solidly Red.

Regarding the "most gun owners do not consider the 2A to be the single issue to vote for".....well, the economy (your job, paying a mortgage, paying rent, buying groceries, etc).....or buying guns. Obviously it's never that simple, but most people see it that way. Trust me, I agree with you that Gun Rights are very important....but it's also understandable why many are not single-issue voters when it comes to it. I myself am a single-issue voter, but I can't speak for my neighbor who owns guns and is recovering from a stroke. His issues in life are different than mine.