My Dad's guns - hadn't seen them in years.

[techieguy]

I would like to express my condolence for your loss... If I read between the lines your mother knew Christ as her personal saviour. I pray that you and your family have peace and comfort during this trying time (especially your father)


Sincerely

Charles

 

[Gunner3456]

I would like to express my condolence for your loss... If I read between the lines your mother knew Christ as her personal saviour. I pray that you and your family have peace and comfort during this trying time (especially your father)


Sincerely

Charles

You are correct. After WWII Dad went to college and became and Christian minister. Mom dedicated her life to being a pastor's wife. Today she went home to be with her Father.

 

[MarkAd]

For what it worth, Take the guns now. your daddy would love to see you shoot them. My daddy passed and i got a couple of guns he had. I wish he could have seen the restoration i did.

 

[Gunner3456]

For what it worth, Take the guns now. your daddy would love to see you shoot them. My daddy passed and i got a couple of guns he had. I wish he could have seen the restoration i did.

Somehow for some of us, our guns and our ability to have them are part of our "manhood." I don't really know how to explain it.

When you are 93, you lose your strength and can no longer do much of what you once could. People want you to stop driving and start using cabs - another loss of our manhood in a way. (Dad still drives but some in the family - not me - want him to stop. He still drives just fine.)

I am the only son of just two siblings and I will get the guns. I just want Dad to keep them for now.

 

[techieguy]

Then there will be a day in which you and your father will see your mother again! My wife talked about this thread and will be in prayer for your family... I lost my step father four years ago and I think understand what you are/will be going though.

My favorite verse in the Bible is: 1 Peter 5:7 Casting are your care upon him, for he careth for you.

Charles

 

[Gunner3456]

BTW I took another look at that Winchester shotgun today and I was wrong. My mind has been distracted the past couple of days with the issues with Mom.

The shotgun is an 1897 with an exposed hammer. It has a nice patina with most bluing gone. There is no rust. The bore is nice. The stock is cracked right behind the receiver and wrapped with several loops of wire.

Anything anyone could tell me about it would be much appreciated.

 

[eriknemily]

Thanks for posting this thread gunner. I can't help but get all teared up reading it. I'm only 27 but greatly admire your father's generation.
It's funny how we can all argue till we're blue in the face about all of the ever-so-important gun issues. But at the end of the day family is what matters. This thread has made a good impact on me (obviously not your intent). Now I need to let my family know how much they mean to me. Thanks again Gunner!!!

Erik

 

[Red Ryder]

I'm sorry to hear the loss of your Mom. She will be in a better place. Someday, her husband will be there with her. For now, enjoy your family as best you can. My condolances go out to your family.

 

[techieguy]

Here is mine...
View attachment 216994
View attachment 216995
View attachment 216996
View attachment 216997

list of serial numbers




List of changes between 1893 and 1897 repeating shotguns.

Complements of Illapath RED



In June 1897, after about 34,000 shotguns Model 1893 had been made, the following changes were made. (Evidently, A and B versions referred to the 1893) Then the gun was called the Model 1897, the serial numbers of the guns continuing.



1st. Top of cartridge ejecting opening in frame made straight.

2nd. Spring placed on inside of action handle encircling magazine.

3rd. Release pin and plunger (for action slide lock)

4th. New firing pin lock put in breech block.

5th. Friction spring put in under cartridge guide.

6th. Collar put inside of magazine to keep spring and follower from coming out.

7th. Screw put in receiver to hold magazine from turning.

8th. Receiver holding bolt made shorter.

9th. Buttstock made longer, drop changed, and outside shape changed slightly.

10th. Top of breech block made straight.



In February 1898, after about 47,000 shotguns had been made, some changes were made in the Model 1897. Then the gun was marked with the letter "C" over the serial number.



1st. A small wire was put into the receiver and connected to the action slide lock release pin, to hold it from coming out when the gun was taken apart.

2nd. Receiver made 11/2 (one and one half ) hundredths thicker on each side. This was thought best on account of the increased cuts on the inside.

3rd. Action slide lock spring changed.



In April 1898, after about 50,000 shotguns had been made (Model 1893 & 1897)some changes were made, and the model 1897 detachable barrel and magazine put on the market.



Additional changes were made. The first Model 1897's had no ejector spring. ( The ejector was a little block pinned to the receiver wall.)

"C" guns had ejector spring. I don't know if all "B" guns had rounded end magazine plugs. The end of the magazine plug was flat on "D" guns.

"E" guns had slightly deeper 5/16 wide grooves on the receiver ring.



Prior to "E" guns, cartridge stops were fastened with screws through the receiver sides and shells were difficult to release from the magazine. For unloading, most shooters worked them through the action. On E models, the cartridge stops fastened through the bottom of the action and providing buttons which could be pushed to retract the cartridge stops.

These are not all the changes. Madis stated that 37 major and 52 minor changes were made in the first 12 years of production of the Model 1897.



Other items that may be of some interest:



1. Standard shotgun stock was 13 3/4 (13 & three quarter) inches.

2. Frame altered to use 2 1/2 (2 and one half) inch shells

3. Brush gun was made available November 1897 to 1931. It had shorter stock with more drop and 26 inch barrel.

4. Standard gun was made with rolled steel barrels, full choke standard. Cylinder or modified choke on special order.

5. Standard barrel length 30 or 32 inch. 30 inch shipped if not specified.

6. Trap Gun 12 and 16 gauge (1897 to 1931). The gun had 30 inch rolled steel

barrel, select fancy walnut handmade stock. Straight checked grip with oil finish

and black diamonds in the grip, and checked rubber butt plate.

It was first listed at $47.

Trap Gun was engraved on the breech block and could be had with matted barrel.

Within certain limits, purchasers could specify stock dimensions.

7. Solid frame and takedown trap guns were made. After 1926 Trap Gun was not always engraved on the breech block.

8. Receivers on Trap, Tournament, Pigeon, Standard Trap, and Special Trap guns had matted groove.



Illapah Red (NEV)

 

[Wheeler44]

Anything anyone could tell me about it would be much appreciated.

Be careful when "pumping" the action.....The slide "will" bite you if you let it.....

If it has an "E" over the serial #, you can depress the two buttons on either side of the receiver (middle, a little lower than centerline) to "dump" the tube magazine w/o working the slide (considered handy for "sport" shooters....

Many of these have been "modified" for CASS....So bone stock originals are becoming even more scarce......

When the hammer in the cocked or half cocked position it will lock the action closed....In the fired position, the slide will work...

I've been told to not use steel shot in one ( seemed like the tellee knew what they were talkin' about).....

Some are chambered in 2-9/16" instead of 2-3/4"...Shooting 2-3/4" "can" lead to over pressure conditions...

If ya hold the trigger whilst working the slide...It'll fire (no disconnect)....

 

[Gunner3456]

Great info guys. When we get this issue with Mom settled down I'll get more specifics.

Techieguy, tha'ts gorgeous. How do you break it down?

 

[ZachS]

My thoughts are with you tonight... glad you're there to help your father (and also that you have some fun old bits of family history to distract you).

 

[techieguy]

There is a button on the end of the mag tube, press it away from the barrel rotate the mag tube and slide the mag tube away from the frame. Once the mag tube is clear of the frame, rotate the barrel 90 degrees counter clockwise and pull the barrel away from the frame. If you are slow it will take about 15 seconds Now you are only able to remove the barrel and mag tube in the take down models (if you notice the piece of metal between the barrel and frame) Another item to note about the 1897 is that the serial number on the frame will match the serial number on the barrel if the gun is complete like it left the factory.

And when return to normal for you, I would be willing to meet and show you in person how to do this if your father's 1897 is a takedown model. I live out in Sam's Valley and come into town M-F for work and Sunday for church.

And yes it is a beautiful, JMB does wonderful work

 

[Member 5605]

FWIW's give your dad a big THANKS from an unknown person whos 28 and respects everything he served for!

 

[eldbillbo]

I'm going to offer up that you might consider taking them now. I realize that you want your parents with you as long as you can. Perhaps your perspective is that they are your Dad's guns and should remain his as long as he is alive. I think it would give your Dad peace of mind to know that he was able to pass along his guns to the person he wanted them to go to and they have them. Given the description of what he has and his age, I don't think he'll have opportunity to use them. At this point, there is more value in giving them to you. It's where they will go anyway. When would you like to say thank you, when he can still say, "Your welcome." or after he is gone?

Another reason to take them now is that I have seen family estates and relations go South after the passage of a loved one. It might gnaw on you to no end to know that what your Dad intended for you went to someone else or got "lost".

I enjoy family history. My parents are gone. Almost all of that generation is gone on both sides. Ask your Dad about the guns and how he came to possess them and whether they belong to any other family members or friends. Someday, you might want to pass them along and they will be treasured more by the next recipient if there is some family history to go with it. In fact, ask them any other questions about family history before it's too late. Write it all down. Enjoy any time you can spare with them. They look like really nice folks. I hope he shared his experiences at Normandy with you.

Thats really good advise i'm going through that now. My Dad passed away a few weeks ago (he served in Korea i'm trying to get some of the photos of him and his m14 that he called a club) prior to his passing he was always trying to get me and my brothers to take home certain items but we would not. my uncle was even telling me that my dad said " I keep trying to get the boys to take these things and they wont" we felt uncomfortable doing that, we knew he had cancer and felt accepting his possessions would be accepting that the time was short all we really did was denied him the pleasure of giving us something that as a father / grandfather brought him Joy. now that he has passed we can't take those items from his house until everything gets settled . Now we have to worry about things growing legs and walking away with people coming in and out, even one of my cousins prior to his passing was hitting him up for his first hunting rifle that was the hunting rifle he loned my brother who shot his first deer with .

if your father offers you something show great excitement tell him how much it means to have those items that were part of him and will be part of you to pass on to your kids and tell him you love him.