Mindset...it's not about "fighting"

[HuckleberryFun]

It seems to come down to being able to instantly "flip a switch".
That assumes, of course, that you have a switch to flip.

 

[P7M13]

Having had four combat tours I had to develop a mindset that could be used within the Rules Of Engagement in order to survive.
While some parts of that mindset are still in use , many while remembered are not.

A mindset that excels in one type of situation can be useless or even dangerous in a another setting or place. Truth...

Speaking only for myself , Situational Awareness is my biggest and most used mindset. Some developed skills do not leave
Learn to read whats going on around you and respond appropriately. Response time falls with lack of practice, IMO.

Appropriately as in what will help you given your abilities , skill , willingness to act etc ...
To get out of the situation with the least amount of fuss. My new Zen word: paintball...
Andy

@NWMA, by 'removed from death', I mean that much of our society is not exposed to the grittiness of reality. As I describe it, most people I know are ensconced in their cocoons (cars) as they shuttle from one safe location to another, like home to work, etc. When harsh reality enters in the form of a parking lot assault, many of them are both caught unaware and also delayed in any reaction by the somatic mantra "this can't be happening."
@AndyinEverson is spot on about situational awareness.
To me your OP was ambiguous because of the predator / prey references, as if you were trying to address the Tao of your mindset. To me, it implied being hunter, and doing garbage collection. However, to rephrase it in my second understanding of what you wrote, 'there are hunters out there who view us as prey.' In this case, I agree with your philosophy.
As @HuckleberryFun wrote, it can be like flipping a switch. That act, I know, can be learned.

 

[mjbskwim]

I'm sorry but I didn't get much from the OP but an explanation of preditors and prey.
And FIND FOOD. KILL. EAT. CHECK.
There wasn't much talking about what was need to be done to change a mind set but something about embracing my animal instinct or such.
Thing is I'm guessing there ain't many sheep or much prey to be had on this sight
Situational awareness wins most every time to avoid problems

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

my 2 cents; the age of innocence is over!

Stay vigilant (passive defense). Constantly consider the surrounding terrain from what an attacker's perspective would be, and know when you would be the most vulnerable.

War Gaming; every environment has areas that are more dangerous than others; often called Danger Areas. Estimate of the Situations; one example would be how we can be "sitting ducks" at a jammed intersection, and how that situation offers far-less maneuverability than driving on an otherwise rural or open highway.

Another example of an estimate would be how the back of grocery stores with all the cover or the baking areas with all that 440 stainless steel, is much-more defensible than being stuck in the isle with dry goods or the check out line.

Going from a passive defense to an active defense is much easier and faster when some of the estimates of the situations have already been accomplished.

 

[NWMA]

Mine in bold

I'm sorry but I didn't get much from the OP but an explanation of preditors and prey.
And FIND FOOD. KILL. EAT. CHECK. Another way of thinking about it...Imagine you raise chickens and butcher them for your dinner table. The butchery is not a pleasant task, but it's not one you get overly worked up over either. It's just a distasteful job that has to be done. The point I'm making is that in a real lethal force encounter, one that was unavoidable, it's more useful to think in terms of a job that must be done...rather than remaining focused on the fear of the attack. Changing the mindset from "OH MY GOD HE'S TRYING TO STAB ME!!!" to "Let's finish this and go home." That may be through using lethal force or simply avoiding it. Obviously it depends on many things.

There wasn't much talking about what was need to be done to change a mind set but something about embracing my animal instinct or such. Well it was just half a page of writing after all, not a book. But yes, to simplify, accessing animal instinct at the moment of danger is one way of achieving a mindset to overcome extreme violence.

Thing is I'm guessing there ain't many sheep or much prey to be had on this sightattachFull335248 I don't assume there are.

Situational awareness wins most every time to avoid problems Agreed. But the post wasn't about situational awareness. And I take it as a given that anyone who thinks about these issues focuses on SA, as they should. Most low level stuff is avoided by good life choices, and 99% of the rest by SA. But SA fails sometimes, and sometimes you're simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. I had hoped it was obvious that what I was referring to was cases of extreme violence. But I'm clarifying now.

View attachment 335248

 

[NWMA]

In bold...

A mindset that excels in one type of situation can be useless or even dangerous in a another setting or place. Agree, however we are capable of changing gears based on changing circumstances. Every problem is not a nail, but when your problem is a nail you definitely need a hammer...or at least something that approximates a hammer. My post was focused on developing that hammer.

Speaking only for myself , Situational Awareness is my biggest and most used mindset.
Learn to read whats going on around you and respond appropriately. Completely agree.

Appropriately as in what will help you given your abilities , skill , willingness to act etc ...
To get out of the situation with the least amount of fuss. Totally agree.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

In bold...

I understand the first bold part you added ... and I do my best to be this way.
However I know many folks and have met many people who do not or are not good at thinking during a change in circumstances.

In fact I might say that I know more folks who are stuck in their way of thinking , than not.
Andy

 

[NWMA]

@NWMA, by 'removed from death', I mean that much of our society is not exposed to the grittiness of reality. As I describe it, most people I know are ensconced in their cocoons (cars) as they shuttle from one safe location to another, like home to work, etc. When harsh reality enters in the form of a parking lot assault, many of them are both caught unaware and also delayed in any reaction by the somatic mantra "this can't be happening."
Understood. We are in complete accord here.

@AndyinEverson is spot on about situational awareness.
To me your OP was ambiguous because of the predator / prey references, as if you were trying to address the Tao of your mindset. To me, it implied being hunter, and doing garbage collection. However, to rephrase it in my second understanding of what you wrote, 'there are hunters out there who view us as prey.' In this case, I agree with your philosophy.
Language has barriers and it can be difficult to fully explain one's self in a short post.
But yes, I believe we're in agreement here. I'm really not concerned about low-level violence because for the most part it is so easily avoided. But there are acts of extreme violence...perhaps not common, but they can happen anywhere at any time. I simply posted one small idea to help prepare for that kind of violence. There are monsters out there, and I believe in training for them. I see much of the training out there is focused on "fear-based survival"...and that really does not gel with my mindset. I prefer to think of it like "I'm not stuck in the room with the monster...he's stuck in the room with me."
Some will take that as bravado. That's fine. I will simply say that it's not bragging if it's true.

As @HuckleberryFun wrote, it can be like flipping a switch. That act, I know, can be learned. My post was specifically aimed at developing that switch, and the ability to flip it.

Thank you for the clarification, most appreciated.

 

[NWMA]

I understand the first bold part you added ... and I do my best to be this way.
However I know many folks and have met many people who do not or are not good at thinking during a change in circumstances.

In fact I might say that I know more folks who are stuck in their way of thinking , than not.
Andy

Totally agree with you.

But I know that ability can be developed for those who are interested and motivated, and that is a big part of my focus in training. Not everyone is interested in following that path, which is fine.

 

[EVILZ]

My thoughts on this are, if attacked, instead of going on the defense... go on offense. Attack back with incredible violence and become as brutal as you can. That's definitely a mindset thing. As far as treating the attacker as prey, not sure but I think you are saying be comfortable and in control. I can see how that could be a mindset adjustment that would be beneficial... That is if I'm reading you right...

 

[NWMA]

Situations rarely come in a neat package.

Go ahead, pretend they do.

Absolutely true, it's rarely simple. But we live in a world of ambiguity and some of us have been on this world for a long time. If one isn't able to deal with ambiguity I think they are failing a basic requirement of being an adult (not that I'm saying it's easy, because it's not).

My post was focused on one specific point and wasn't intended to be a book so it can't cover everything. But to add some clarification...

I believe MANY violent situations are totally ambiguous. Imagine walking into a room just as one guy throws a punch at another. I have no idea who started the fight. No idea why it started, or what the context was. Maybe the guy was defending himself, or maybe he was assaulting an innocent bystander. Based on such limited information, I have no basis to choose a course of intervention...so I don't. Maybe it's safe enough for me to watch and see what develops, or maybe it seems best to turn around and get the hell out of there. We observe the world and act accordingly to the best of our abilities.

The same could be said if I turned a corner and stumbled upon a gunfight. I don't know what's going on, who started shooting or why...so I'm going to run my bubblegum off. For all I know, the guy doing the shooting is the good guy, responding to a terror event.

Without enough information, I'm not going to initiate my own violence. I'm going to ensure my own safety, and anyone with me, by leaving immediately.

Same as if I were to stumble on a hold up at a gas station. A couple hundred bucks is neither worth my time or effort to shoot someone. If I have the option, I'm going to leave. If I can't leave, I'm going to find cover/concealment as best I can, and maintain a watchful, ready eye. Where it goes from there depends on what the hold-up man does.

I consider all that stuff low-level violence and it's usually easy to avoid.

However, THERE ARE ACTS THAT SHOCK THE CONSCIOUS of humanity. Gang or mob violence. Active shootings. Terror acts. Suicide bombers. I don't mean to sound alarmist, merely pointing out that they happen. Again, avoidance is always best but that is not always an option. And sometimes...sometimes it is worth acting.

I maintain that if you roll up to your kids school and see someone in the parking lot shooting kids with a rifle, you have all the information that you need. That is where a predator mindset becomes useful. If a guys ability and willingness are simply not capable of dealing with that threat, he may only be able to call 911. But some of us DO have the ability and willingness to deal with it.

If your home is invaded while your wife and kids are watching TV, you have all the information you need. That is where this kind of mindset is necessary. Yes, we will feel fear, but dwelling on that is not useful. Shifting gears in our mind will do more to save your family than cowering in fear, worried about what they will do to you and your family, or about legal consequences. Being alive is better than dead. Being alive in jail is better than standing by while your wife is raped. A mindset of "prey has just entered my lair" will help you overcome fear and act as you need to act.

I don't think that is bravado. I think it's simply acting to save your family.

Speaking of legal consequences...that's a much, much bigger discussion. For those interested, I'm hosting a seminar on the subject. I think the class description speaks for itself: <broken link removed> .

 

[NWMA]

My thoughts on this are, if attacked, instead of going on the defense... go on offense. Attack back with incredible violence and become as brutal as you can. That's definitely a mindset thing. As far as treating the attacker as prey, not sure but I think you are saying be comfortable and in control. I can see how that could be a mindset adjustment that would be beneficial... That is if I'm reading you right...

Yes. Exactly.

Training physical skills is very important, but I believe mindset is more important. Mindset is a tool to achieve our goals, and it can be developed, just like any other tool/tactic.

A positive, APPROPRIATE mindset, combined with physical skills is a powerful thing.

 

[Medic!]

NWMA said.

''I maintain that if you roll up to your kids school and see someone in the parking lot shooting kids with a rifle, you have all the information that you need. That is where a predator mindset becomes useful. If a guys ability and willingness are simply not capable of dealing with that threat, he may only be able to call 911. But some of us DO have the ability and willingness to deal with it''.





It's strange to have somebody here, in this ''Pack of Wolves''. Recommend fighting back.


But go ahead. Were all ears.

 

[NWMA]

In my humble opinion, the "all or nothing" outlook has no place in the mind of the educated citizen*. This applies to tactics as well as tools.

It's like point shooting vs sighted fire. They both have their time and place...and it's up to the educated to build the skill, knowledge and experience to know when to use one or the other.

Yet talking with some folks it's as though this simple concept is quantum physics; unpenetrable alien technology.

*This would be a larger discussion, but by citizen I'm referring to how Jeff Cooper described it:
"Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen."

I'm not sure the quote is exact but I think the sentiment is accurate.

Not everyone has high aspirations with their skill and ability. That's fine, to each his own. But I don't focus on the lowest common denominator. We can aspire to higher standards.

 

[NWMA]

It's strange to have somebody here, in this ''Pack of Wolves''. Recommend fighting back.

But were all ears.

Well the animal analogies can get stretched too far but sometimes they are useful to illustrate an idea

But to your point...I see a lot of gun people who are NOT wolves. Again this is fine; as Dirty Harry said, a man has to know his limitations.

I see many people who know their limitations, but want to sharpen their ability. Those are the folks I try to speak to.

I see many like-minded wolves and I extend my hand and say "Hello Brother/Sister".

I also see many who think they are wolves...but quail at the thought of what that really means. (To be fair, that is my bias and judgement. But we all have our opinions.)

The important point is clarity. I don't so much want to win an argument as provide clarity. What do I stand for, what do you stand for, and how do we differ.

There's a lot of garbage out there but where we can find clarity it makes it worthwhile.

 

[Certaindeaf]

In my humble opinion, the "all or nothing" outlook has no place in the mind of the educated citizen*. This applies to tactics as well as tools.

It's like point shooting vs sighted fire. They both have their time and place...and it's up to the educated to build the skill, knowledge and experience to know when to use one or the other.

Yet talking with some folks it's as though this simple concept is quantum physics; unpenetrable alien technology.

*This would be a larger discussion, but by citizen I'm referring to how Jeff Cooper described it:
"Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen."

I'm not sure the quote is exact but I think the sentiment is accurate.

Not everyone has high aspirations with their skill and ability. That's fine, to each his own. But I don't focus on the lowest common denominator. We can aspire to higher standards.

It's nice to be able to shoot a handgun like a rifle. Saves a heap on "fighting your way to your rifle" especially when you're dead.

 

[NWMA]

It's nice to be able to shoot a handgun like a rifle.

Yes. It is.

 

[L84Cabo]

Words only have the meaning that we, individually, choose to give them. And context is everything. The snake is fighting the hawk for it's life. So to is the antelope fighting the lion for it's life. Choose whichever words you wish to describe it but it is a struggle for life by the lesser of each animal. You may also, some day, find yourself the intended prey to some deviant predator. And when that day comes...and whatever you chose to call it...you better believe you are in a fight for your life...and you better respond accordingly.

 

[Ura-Ki]

While I can see what the OP is trying to articulate as a series of ideas, The fundamental premise of having a predator mind set is fatally flawed! Humans are programmed differently then the animals, and we have a much more complex arrangement of responses to stimuli then any other species! That said, we are predisposed to acting out with violence when threatened as part of our instincts! As pointed out by AndyinEverson, Situational awareness is probably the number one advantage in actively avoiding conflict, because lets face it, we humans are not very well equipped to fight on our own with out tools! We humans come programmed kind of like the Sheepdog, not the wolf, and I think if we were to think of a proper mind set, the Sheep Dog is the correct one! If thinking your self like a predator, you open your self up to attack from all others, because you have become THE apex threat that needs to be stopped first! Then there is the Fight or Flight programming! Some of us have been programmed to fight and some are programmed to flee, and this is where training really comes into play, re setting the program to enhance certain aspects to give additional skills, because ultimately, survival is THE goal, not fighting it out just for the sake of fighting! Finally, the last flaw is the fighting it's self, if you find your self in a fight, you are all ready at a disadvantage, and if you are fighting by some one rules, you will loose! There is no such thing as a fair fight, and if you get your self into the mind set of following rules, you loose almost every time! Here is the ultimate failure, we as a genteel society HAVE adopted R.O.E's that we are forced to adhere to, and this is where we get screwed up with our programing, so we have to train out these R.O.E's so that we can act as needed when needed and avoid breaking these set R.O.E's so we don't get punished for simple doing what must be done to survive!

 

[HuckleberryFun]

OK, I know the animal analogy horse is being beaten pretty hard already, but I have a different take on the Wolves / Sheep/ Sheepdog formula. Left out is half the "good guy" team: the Shepherd. A sheppdog needs a good shepherd to direct him or he can maybe go wild-wolf again. A sheepdog us no good without a shepherd and a shepherd is toothless without his trusty sheepdog. Translation: without good leaders (in all walks of life, not just government) to guide and restrain when necessary we are f@cked.