Shoot back or not?

[ma96782]

If the Cops Are Unlawfully Shooting at Me, Can I Shoot Back?

AL COPS Bust in W/ No Warrant, $hoot Property Owner. He $hoots Back!

View: https://youtu.be/q-BepkX4JnU?si=x_uSBTsqS_Bbkzcv


Aloha, Mark

PS.......something else to consider when interacting with the police.

View: https://youtu.be/ms4BNMSkdh0?si=mQ0awYRxFNLmELWB

Read More

 

[Knobgoblin]

Only if you can kill everyone.

And are willing and able to disappear forever.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

In the interest of honesty here....
Didn't watch the video....and don't plan on doing so.
Don't need yet another talkin' head telling me 'bout things.

A better question instead of Can I....
Should I.....

Even if you can do something...it don't always mean that it is right / or the correct thing to do.
Andy

 

[Provincial]

IF they really are making an unlawful entry, you are best off to let your legal team do the "shooting" in court. Better you getting the fruits of their work than your survivors.

 

[Knobgoblin]

 

[bradsteen]

Legality and practicality are two different things. You may be legally justified, but doing so is likely to get you killed. Personally, I'll take my chances with the legal system to redress my grievances after the fact.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Best to remember, carrying does not make you an LEO...

 

[gmerkt]

A situation that isn't all that likely to come up for most of us, but I guess there are isolated instances of it. I watched the first video. Dang, those female cops sure poured on the firepower.

The police have to know when and when not to shoot. Under extreme pressure, mistakes are going to be made.

Legality and practicality are two different things. You may be legally justified, but doing so is likely to get you killed. Personally, I'll take my chances with the legal system to redress my grievances after the fact.

Yes, and on the practical side of it, the police are going to be way ahead of me anyway. Especially if they are going to respond like the two lady cops in Houston in the video.

 

[Alexx1401]

I have LONG been a fan of the LEO's NOT using the so called "no knock" warrant. They are seldom really "needed". Every time a "mistake" is made with one that leads to a disaster we find they could have just solved the problem without the cowboy
Now of course basically none of us are going to be in the situation were LEO's are shooting at us for "no reason". If one is pointing a gun at you? That is NOT the place to hold court by pulling your gun. The old saying of "Being right and being dead right" comes to mind.

 

[WillametteWill]

I appreciate the thought-provoking OP @ma96782. I think the average, okay, 99.9999% of moral, ethical, and lawfully armed citizens' time would be better spent considering ways NOT to be involved in mistake of fact shooting with LEO. I've seen the videos of some of the outliers where bad choices appear to be made by LEOs. I've also seen many more, and read evidence from others, where citizens place themselves in avoidable positions and bad things, fairly predictably, happen. It would behoove armed citizens to consider the ramifications of:

• Going to the door at night while holding a clearly visible firearm
• Having a gun out when police arrive at a DGU (I understand, sometimes this might be unavoidable)
• Picking up guns of suspects and getting accidentally shot (Colorado)
• Shining a flashlight at police around your home who might be looking for an armed felon
• Etc.

I think the third video spews the typical, "all police are out to get you, garbage" so they can get clicks and sell stuff. The video says admitting to having a gun is a "statement against interest," yet over half the states have Constitutional carry. They go on to cite cases where the person actually did something wrong. Guess what? You can get convicted when this happens. I also didn't see them mention, maybe I missed it, that some states legally require you to identify to LEOs if you are armed. I think discussions like this are great...just hate the sensational, and often false info in some of the videos.

Interestingly, there is a link (on my feed) from Mas Ayoob on how to navigate a traffic stop if you are armed. That one is worth watching. Thanks again OP!

 

[Alexx1401]

The police and the courts are out of control it is not about justice as we can all see it is a us and them and the elites have shown they do not care what the worker class drones want , epstein files jewish pedo blackmail call us all goyim , they do not care notice the names of the worst are redacted , it is rubbing your face in their feces as we give that country of hate all kinds of money free health care free allotments and zero accountibility , it is all fake and showing the normal tax payer that the Constitution is not being obeyed , you think the police are here for our benefit or protection , not at all it is the . govs enforcers .

It is not the country it is supposed to be , but you will have to decide beforehand what you are going to do or allow , many will kneel and expect justice , and will never live to see it as fair comes to town once a year go spend your money and enjoy , but the rich gov. elites will continue to run the system and the courts will allow it as they violate your rights , and in the meantime the crazed far extremes on both sides rant and rave , and nothing changes .

Meanwhile the same old graft and corruption continue and be sure to pay your taxes as you expect it to get better or the courts to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law , oh do not forget to vote as that is working so well for the working man

Sigh, while we have a FAR from perfect place here I have not seen another I wish to be. I have the means to up and move if I wish. A LOT of other people do too. Don't see a flood of us leaving. So if you think telling anyone who will listen to give up is going to make this "better"? Hey go for it.

 

[RVTECH]

Aside from this issue, but on that of many similar 'fronts' why not have an exit strategy out a back door, (or one somewhere opposite to the FRONT) where you can potentially get out before THEY (anyone) gets in, and move outside around the house and MAYBE see the front door area and NOT be seen getting away or hiding out - while you call 911...

I don't know why this is NEVER mentioned or suggested in situations like this. IF it ever HAS been I missed it but ALL I ever seem to read about is what to 'DO' while still inside.

Maybe it's not as practical for say, someone living in an urban, fenced neighborhood as opposed to those in more rural areas but MOST urban houses with backyards I have seen have back doors and possibly ways to accomplish this.

Well, I have a plan for this and have 'tested' it in a way. I can get out my back door and into my shop fairly easily and NOT be seen from the front door - OR I can move around my shop toward my driveway and could EASILY see anyone ON my front deck - yet NOT by them and I would essentially be 'gone'.

 

[Alexx1401]

Aside from this issue, but on that of many similar 'fronts' why not have an exit strategy out a back door, (or one somewhere opposite to the FRONT) where you can potentially get out before THEY (anyone) gets in, and move outside around the house and MAYBE see the front door area and NOT be seen getting away or hiding out - while you call 911...

I don't know why this is NEVER mentioned or suggested in situations like this. IF it ever HAS been I missed it but ALL I ever seem to read about is what to 'DO' while still inside.

Maybe it's not as practical for say, someone living in an urban, fenced neighborhood as opposed to those in more rural areas but MOST urban houses with backyards I have seen have back doors and possibly ways to accomplish this.

Well, I have a plan for this and have 'tested' it in a way. I can get out my back door and into my shop fairly easily and NOT be seen from the front door - OR I can move around my shop toward my driveway and could EASILY see anyone ON my front deck - yet NOT by them and I would essentially be 'gone'.

If I was home alone and someone was out front trying to get in? I "might" think about using the back door to the house to get out. I doubt "I" would make the choice to do so though. I don't want to get into a fight outside with the said scum if I can avoid it. I sure as hell don't want to be outside with gun in hand after LEO's have been called. This is me alone. If Wife or others are with me? I would not take all of us outside. Would far rather have the advantage of if they make it through the door be able to drop them there. Then they made the choice to break into my home. I figure they bought the ticket, they can take the ride. As always what I would do is me. What others are comfortable with I would not try to tell them they are "doing it wrong".

 

[RVTECH]

I don't want to get into a fight outside with the said scum if I can avoid it.

Well, I wasn't thinking 'scum' so much as opposed to say IF LEO were at my door and I did NOT know why, OR if they were indicating something I didn't feel like answering the door for - especially if it was after dark or late at night.

I'd rather maybe 'hide' outside (or in my shop) until they decided (or thought) I wasn't there then after they left call THEM and ask what they wanted.

As far as 'scum' I have many options to either stay hidden or flee to avoid contact with them.

If I were to make contact with LEO outside I could simply set my gun down and approach them on MY choosing....

I have already once made 'contact' with LEO outside while armed during my burglary of several years ago and all they asked when in my driveway was that I clear my weapon before they approached. All they asked when they approached me was to show them it was clear and that was it.

It may not 'work' for everyone or be an option but in my case leaving out my back door offers me MANY options to avoid being seen and to avoid having to deal with anybody at the door or if they were to break in.

 

[bradsteen]

I appreciate the thought-provoking OP @ma96782. I think the average, okay, 99.9999% of moral, ethical, and lawfully armed citizens' time would be better spent considering ways NOT to be involved in mistake of fact shooting with LEO. I've seen the videos of some of the outliers where bad choices appear to be made by LEOs. I've also seen many more, and read evidence from others, where citizens place themselves in avoidable positions and bad things, fairly predictably, happen. It would behoove armed citizens to consider the ramifications of:

• Going to the door at night while holding a clearly visible firearm
• Having a gun out when police arrive at a DGU (I understand, sometimes this might be unavoidable)
• Picking up guns of suspects and getting accidentally shot (Colorado)
• Shining a flashlight at police around your home who might be looking for an armed felon
• Etc.

I think the third video spews the typical, "all police are out to get you, garbage" so they can get clicks and sell stuff. The video says admitting to having a gun is a "statement against interest," yet over half the states have Constitutional carry. They go on to cite cases where the person actually did something wrong. Guess what? You can get convicted when this happens. I also didn't see them mention, maybe I missed it, that some states legally require you to identify to LEOs if you are armed. I think discussions like this are great...just hate the sensational, and often false info in some of the videos.

Interestingly, there is a link (on my feed) from Mas Ayoob on how to navigate a traffic stop if you are armed. That one is worth watching. Thanks again OP!

^^^THIS^^^

 

[Knobgoblin]

Well, I wasn't thinking 'scum' so much as opposed to say IF LEO were at my door and I did NOT know why, OR if they were indicating something I didn't feel like answering the door for - especially if it was after dark or late at night.

I'd rather maybe 'hide' outside (or in my shop) until they decided (or thought) I wasn't there then after they left call THEM and ask what they wanted.

As far as 'scum' I have many options to either stay hidden or flee to avoid contact with them.

If I were to make contact with LEO outside I could simply set my gun down and approach them on MY choosing....

I have already once made 'contact' with LEO outside while armed during my burglary of several years ago and all they asked when in my driveway was that I clear my weapon before they approached. All they asked when they approached me was to show them it was clear and that was it.

It may not 'work' for everyone or be an option but in my case leaving out my back door offers me MANY options to avoid being seen and to avoid having to deal with anybody at the door or if they were to break in.

The situation you were in was a while back?

Things have changed. For the worse.

 

[RVTECH]

The situation you were in was a while back?

Well I said 'several years ago' - 2018 to be exact - and posted about it at the time.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Well I said 'several years ago' - 2018 to be exact - and posted about it at the time.

Depending on which area/departments/agencies, the older cops have been run off . New " dei " rank and file show a significant lack of ability in life or death situations.
Physically weak and stacked deep is a nightmare when they are all armed and armored with qualified immunity.

 

[MichaelH]

i was thinking about this today, specifically because so many of us suggest that a prime justification for our Second Amendment right to bear arms is to allow the average citizen to oppose tyranny. In the abstract, ok maybe that's what some framers intended (and some didn't but ignored that rhetoric) but in the real world most of us bear arms to protect our personal safety from other dangers. People who oppose forceful government action—whether that action is tyrannical or lawful, which is often a difference of perspective—with firearms will likely wind up dead, at least if the government doesn't think that public outcry will be too great. I suspect you can think of examples of both in recent history.

At best, firearms can be the thing that keeps police acting unlawfully outside, for fear of being shot, long enough to get the attention of the community to witness a surrender and arrest. If you're in a strange cult led by a pedophile or a black separatist group in Philadelphia, that might not work, but if you're a cowboy rancher in a standoff with lots of supporters it might.

But let's be honest no individual armed citizen has much of a shot opposing tyranny and surviving by virtue of being armed.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Something to consider here....

Who tells the story and controls the narrative of what happened...wins , so to speak.
It don't matter who was "right" and who was "wrong".

That in conjunction with people's preconceived and often stereotypical notions / ideas ...
Will sink your ship or keep your boat afloat .
Andy