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Milita On Trial or The US Constitution?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by kenno, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. kenno

    kenno eastern WA Active Member

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    Join Date: Sep 2009
    Location: Region 10
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    Militia on Trial

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    Militia on Trial: ‘Good Ol’ Boys’ and Preppers, or Anti-Gov’t Domestic Terrorists?
    DETROIT (AP) — Seven members of a Midwest militia accused of plotting to overthrow the government are set to stand trial, where jurors will decide whether federal authorities prevented an attack by homegrown extremists or simply made too much of the boasts by weekend warriors who had pledged to “take our nation back.”
    Opening statements are set for Monday once a jury is seated in the trial of members of the Hutaree militia, who are charged with conspiring to commit sedition, or rebellion, as well as weapon crimes.
    This combo of eight photos provided by the U.S. Marshals Service on Monday March 29, 2010 shows from top left, David Brian Stone Sr., 44, of Clayton, Mich,; David Brian Stone Jr. of Adrian, Mich,; Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio; Tina Mae Stone and bottom row from left, Michael David Meeks, 40, of Manchester, Mich,; Kristopher T. Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; Joshua John Clough, 28, of Blissfield, Mich.; and Thomas William Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind., suspects tied to Hutaree, a Christian militia. Jury selection is getting under way in Detroit federal court Tuesday, Feb. 7, 2012, nearly two years after the dramatic arrest of people who authorities say belonged to a southern Michigan militia with a goal of rebelling against the government. The trial is expected to last weeks. It involves seven of the nine people charged with belonging to a group called Hutaree. The government says they conspired to try to kill a police officer and plotted further strikes. No one was ever attacked, and the defendants say they're being prosecuted for saying stupid things. Joshua Clough, bottom row second from right, is the only defendant to make a deal with prosecutors and could be called as a witness to testify against the Hutaree. (AP Photo/U.S. Marshall)



    Following the March 2010 arrests in southern Michigan, Ohio and Indiana, U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said the time had come for authorities to “take them down.” An undercover agent had recorded the group’s leader, David Stone, saying the militia needed to “start huntin’” police soon.
    But since their capture, only one of nine people charged has struck a plea deal, an unusually low number in a case with so many defendants. Their attorneys have maintained a consistent stance: The anti-government talk was simply colorful yet aimless bluster akin to frustrated pals drowning sorrows around a campfire.
    “I’m going to fight it tooth and nail,” David Stone’s wife and co-defendant, Tina Mae Stone, said during a break in jury selection last week. “It was just a bunch of good ol’ boys out to have fun. We did survival stuff. I did it mostly to spend time with my husband. People tell me, `good luck.‘ I don’t need luck. I’ve got God on my side.”
    The militia prepared for survival in case of domestic chaos or an attack on the United States, attorneys Todd Shanker and Richard Helfrick said in a court filing. They noted the group even had a website and promoted its weekend outings.
    “Regardless of the charges in the indictment, there is no dispute that the aims of the Hutaree militia included the free exercise of their 1st and 2nd Amendment rights, including freedom of speech, association, assembly and the right to bear arms,” said the lawyers, who represent David Stone Jr.
    The indictment, however, describes a more sinister band. The government says the Hutaree, based in Michigan’s Lenawee County, was an anti-government group committed to fighting authorities who belong to a so-called “New World Order.” The defendants are accused of conspiring to someday ambush and kill a police officer, then attack the funeral procession with explosives and trigger a broader revolt against the U.S. government.
    “The court will hear testimony and examine evidence concerning this particular group’s hatred for, and desire to do physical harm to, law enforcement,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher Graveline said.
    The government has more than 100 hours of audio and video, including the recording of David Stone, 47, apparently talking about police.
    “I think we gotta just start huntin’ `em here pretty soon. … They’re easy to find, they‘re sittin’ alongside the road and they got these red and blue lights on top of their car,” he said.
    A co-defendant, Michael Meeks of Manchester, Mich., replied: “It’s like a Kmart super special or whatever.”
    But some conversations were sprinkled with laughter and a mix of subjects, including strippers and drawing Hitler mustaches on photos of state troopers. Agents seized machine guns, unregistered rifles, ammunition and parts for improvised explosive devices.
    A picture of the weapons seized from the militia.

    The government’s case got off to a rough start in 2010, when U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts released the nine until trial under strict conditions. The government swiftly appealed but then agreed that four could go home wearing electronic monitors. An appeals court ultimately ordered the other five to remain locked up, including David Stone.
    The government relied on an undercover agent inside the group and an informant. But the informant comes with warts: He pleaded guilty in state court to firing a gun during a dispute with his wife and also attempted suicide. Another witness who was married to a Hutaree member not charged in the case attempted suicide and told a grand jury she’s prone to panic attacks.
    “How often do American citizens get charged with sedition or inciting discontent and resistance against big government? Heck, most citizens are discontented with the government,” said Lloyd Meyer, a Chicago lawyer and former terrorism prosecutor. “In this case, no one pulled a trigger and no one got hurt. … A jury could believe that the feds went after this group with a meat cleaver instead of a scalpel.”
    But Alan Gershel, a former prosecutor who teaches at Cooley Law School in suburban Detroit, said the allegations in the indictment seem more than goofy talk.
    “There was planning. There was acquisition of firearms. There was training,” he said. “Do you have to wait until the first shot is fired? You have to choose the moment of time when things go beyond chatter. That’s what the government is aiming at here.”
    Joshua Clough of Blissfield, Mich., is the only defendant to make a deal with prosecutors. He pleaded guilty in December to illegal use of a firearm, faces a mandatory five-year prison sentence and could be called as a witness to testify against the Hutaree.
    Besides the Stones and Meeks, the other defendants are Joshua Stone of Lenawee County; Thomas Piatek of Whiting, Ind.; and Kristopher Sickles of Sandusky, Ohio. Jacob Ward of Huron, Ohio, will have a separate trial. Besides conspiracy charges, all face at least one firearm charge and some have more.
    __________________
     
  2. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    “Do you have to wait until the first shot is fired?"

    If you're an everyday citizen that's EXACTLY what the police will tell you.
     
  3. x1hunter89

    x1hunter89 gresham oregon Active Member

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    well atleast they cant charge us with unregistered firearms lol but this is bs
     
  4. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    Cop or Soldier; the quiz

    Cop or Soldier?

    Notice it says 'soldier' not 'troop'. That was always the dumbest play on words ever; like a boy scout 'troop?' out to fight evil doers? Geezus.
     
  5. kenno

    kenno eastern WA Active Member

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    I.E.D. components? isn't that virtualy anything? I guess they must have been labeled!
     
  6. x1hunter89

    x1hunter89 gresham oregon Active Member

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    improvise yes i do beleive that means virtualy anything that works

    this must be the reason the tell us in the military to adapt and not improvise. improvise must mean your a terrorist dont do it or use the word the FBI will be at your door with a paddle in hand and handcuffs for all the kinky stuff they do to make you talk dirty to them. its all just bubblegum they are blowing up are tail pipes. sometimes it really just toots my horn. i wish i was a turtle so i could get in my shell and feel like this is a perfect world, but i cant convince myself that the rich dont rule the world, and the cops FBI CIA and military are their pawns.
     
  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    This trial will be interesting. I am anxiously awaiting the jury's decision.
     
  8. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Keep your mouth shut and nothing like this will happen.
    Most of the people who have been busted in these type things have been vocal.They say the wrong things in front of the wrong people.
    All the time.

    If these people would use just a little restraint,they wouldn't be in the public eye. The authorities wouldn't give them the time of day.

    Concealed means concealed. Don't play all your cards.

    This is what will happen.
     
  9. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    "The defendants are accused of conspiring to someday ambush and kill a police officer, then attack the funeral procession with explosives and trigger a broader revolt against the U.S. government."

    I want to know how killing a LEO then attacking the funeral procession would cause a revolt against the government???? Not the brightest group of fellas to congregate around a campfire.
     
  10. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I have been worndering what happen to these people..They were set up by the fed's.the under cover is the one that led them to say some of this stuff.
    Read the stuff that was said before there arrest.
     
    Blitzkrieg and (deleted member) like this.
  11. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    It's under your kitchen sink or in your garage. This is a dog and pony show to intimidate us out here. Organize a small group of true patriots who have the intelligence to know what not to say and stay under the radar
     
  12. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    Judge throws out almost all charges, most members completely cleared.

    HA! Take that Holder! :boxing:

    Mich. militia members cleared of charges that accused them of plotting war against government - The Washington Post
     
    Blitzkrieg and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

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    I'm glad that pre-crime enforcement isn't on this weeks menu.
     
  14. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    This country was given birth by the American Militia which successfully fought the original monarchy-government. One of my ancestors died on Lexington Green after hearing the Shot Heard Round the World and firing on the redcoats

    King George called them "terrorists".. this tyrannical government fears We the People and so they use the same term and attempt to squash a movement that is as American as mom and apple pie
     
  15. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I love it I said back in Feb it was BS....
     
  16. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Josephine County Active Member

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    As a photo journalist my understaning of the freedom of speach thing is that you can talk and plan all your want. bubblegum about the government, Police, lawyers, local politicans and plan all you want. If you take action or execute your plans then you cross the line into criminal activity and only then. My understanding of freedom of speach is a way for the people to vent there flusterations against what ever and not have to take action.
    So listen up politicans!!!!! People are pissed off at you!
     
  17. MikeSettles

    MikeSettles Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    According to the US Attorney, Hutaree crossed the line when they "made plans" and "acquired weapons". Seems to me that making a plan, getting the specific stuff to carry it out, and rehearsing the task qualifies as conspiracy (at least). Were they idiots? I think so. Did their actions rise to "Sedition"? The judge didn't believe the Feds.

    On to the bigger question: Since when (under the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights) is it lawful to attack and bring down a tyrannical government? Were they out to overthrow the Constitution (treason)? Or were they aiming to discipline an out-of-control government agency? (I don't know that the "police" whom they talked about attacking WERE acting outside Constitutional limits. I wasn't there.) Somehow, at some point, We the People, as the Militia of the United States should have an established tripping point, past which the incumbent government would know that they would be overthrown/fired by Us.

    Where is that boundary? How do We establish it without being charged by the Incumbent Government with "Sedition"?

    Having said all this, I am very concerned with the overreach evident in governments at all levels, from National down to Local. I attribute this to citizen apathy and a feeling of being powerless against Government with all of its resources. ("You can't fight City Hall!") I think that Government and Media has actively engaged in a campaign to make Americans feel that We must defer to them in all things, and that "We must always do as they say". I think that this has been going on for over a century, at least. Most Americans seem well-indoctrinated.
     
    Sabertooth and (deleted member) like this.
  18. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    the goverment makes the laws any move to remove them will be treason and sedition in there eyes,therefore it should be stomped on....
     
  19. nwdrifter

    nwdrifter troutdale oregon Active Member

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    [:laugh:
     
  20. derrickrf

    derrickrf vancouver wa Member

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    Two questions? What if it was true and what if nothing was done?