Michigan O.C. Files lawsuit

willseeker · Dec 24, 2013

I'm not a proponent of O.C, but I'm not against it.

My biggest concern is having someone taking it from me. I C.C. everyday.

Lawsuit: Gun owner says Grand Rapids police wrongly detain him for openly carrying pistol | MLive.com

This country needs to chill out regarding guns!

Be well,
Will

evltwn · Dec 24, 2013

Another guy seeking a confrontation. Yeah, I know, I know....he was carrying legally, and the cops responded poorly, but not unexpectedly. But a lawsuit? Really?

misplacedtexan · Dec 24, 2013

If you read the police response linked in the story it seems that Deffert(defendant) was acting like a loon in front of a church.

Cop stopped him, held him at gunpoint (because he was acting like a loon), ran his ID, and let him go.

I don't see the problem really. I open carry regularly, but if I was outside a church talking fairly loudly to myself, I would expect someone to take exception.

Darknight · Dec 25, 2013

misplacedtexan said:
If you read the police response linked in the story it seems that Deffert(defendant) was acting like a loon in front of a church.

Cop stopped him, held him at gunpoint (because he was acting like a loon), ran his ID, and let him go.

I don't see the problem really. I open carry regularly, but if I was outside a church talking fairly loudly to myself, I would expect someone to take exception.

I was not there, but don't demonstrators chant loudly and talk loudly, even when there appears to be no one around, to get public attention on whatever issue it is they are out deomnstrating about?

1337BaldEagle · Dec 25, 2013

evltwn said:
Another guy seeking a confrontation. Yeah, I know, I know....he was carrying legally, and the cops responded poorly, but not unexpectedly. But a lawsuit? Really?

Not trying to be a jerk but the ONLY way things will change in this country is by legal precedent.

1337BaldEagle · Dec 25, 2013

Darknight said:
I was not there, but don't demonstrators chant loudly and talk loudly, even when there appears to be no one around, to get public attention on whatever issue it is they are out deomnstrating about?

Indeed, but the further chilling consequences of letting something like this go unchecked is this: Allowing unreasonable searches or even potentially unreasonable searches has chilling consequences. If we only look at the potential problems of current and present time then we are without forethought and lack sense. I don't want to live in a day and age where a cop pulls me over because of my Magpul sticker on my truck. I don't want him to be able to legally justify the situation by saying "we thought you were armed, and since there is no real reason to be armed, we assumed you were a threat." This happens all to often. The simple fact of the matter is that if no laws are broken they must have "reason to believe" that a crime will be committed. The potential for abuse is not a line I wish pushed any further. In fact I wish it pushed back. Or you are going to get Police like in Chicago who say:

"You put more guns on the street expect more shootings," McCarthy said. "I don't care if they're licensed legal firearms, people who are not highly trained... putting guns in their hands is a recipe for disaster. So I'll train our officers that there is a concealed carry law, but when somebody turns with a firearm in their hand the officer does not have an obligation to wait to get shot to return fire and we're going to have tragedies as a result of that. I'm telling you right up front."

Cheif of Police McCarthy.

Edit: I'm not saying that officers should have to wait to be shot at but to merely have a gun does not constitute reason to shoot.

orygun · Dec 25, 2013

Hmmm, I'd like to know a bit more, but there is no information in this article. Was the man walking by singing to himself? Was he walking around in circles shouting? No where in the article does it describe how he was acting "oddly". The "fact" that the Police Chief knew nothing, I believe is BS and is covering his butt because of the pending lawsuit.
The missing info and the amount of time the cops detained him debating policy without checking ID makes me think he's got a leg to stand on.
IF there was nothing more going on than what the article says, I hope the judge sticks it to the Police Dept.

Edit. Ok, I figured out how to read the update. I'm no computer genius, let me tell you!

But, the delay in checking ID, if there was a delay, would be the key. Any time I've been pulled over (traffic stops) one of the first things a cop does is to ask for ID. The one time that was different, I got a severe verbal thrashing for several minutes before he asked for my ID. His attitude prompted me to hire a lawyer. His lack of evidence got me off, but his attitude towards me at the scene got the attention of the judge, who laid into him pretty well.

I agree, Legal precedence is the only way things change...

bnsaibum · Jan 10, 2014

Video of incident released

Video of Grand Rapids open carry incident that sparked federal lawsuit released

1337BaldEagle · Jan 10, 2014

I hope he bankrupts the department.

bnsaibum · Jan 11, 2014

More video
See entire encounter between Grand Rapids Police, open-carry gun advocate | MLive.com

oli700 · Jan 11, 2014

What a bunch of dbags ..in the first video the police instantly makes him get on the ground and detain him for doing nothing wrong, "until I figure this out he says, he should have had it figured out before he got out of his rig, incompetent jerkoff.
I hope he wins that suit against those communists ..why couldnt that idiot just pull up and talk to him like a reasonable person and ask some questions to make sure he wasnt a psycho and then let him go on his way.

chariot13 · Jan 11, 2014

oli700 said:
What a bunch of dbags ..in the first video the police instantly makes him get on the ground and detain him for doing nothing wrong, "until I figure this out he says, he should have had it figured out before he got out of his rig, incompetent jerkoff.
I hope he wins that suit against those communists ..why couldnt that idiot just pull up and talk to him like a reasonable person and ask some questions to make sure he wasnt a psycho and then let him go on his way.

Because the cops that act like this know they'll get away with it. Look at the newspaper ladies etc.... when you can shoot a citizen with impunity and then pay them off with the money they payed you in taxes, (pay em off with their own money) then you hold zero responsibility for your own actions as a police officer.

oli700 · Jan 11, 2014

chariot13 said:
Look at the newspaper ladies etc....

perfect example, that just floored me.
I don't care what they thought, you better have all your ducks in a row when you decide to fill a truck full of holes......the very stupidest part of that was simultaneously across town they were shooting up another innocent....just by listening to the radio you would think one of them would have put two and two together and say "one of us has the wrong guy".....turns out they both did, incompetence beyond forgiveness right there, don't they run plates or talk to dispatch anymore? text book communication break down