Mcminnville Oregon police, open carry AR-15 VIDEO

[MikeSettles]

Good arguments on all sides of this issue.

I would add that the PERCEPTION here, when one guy walks around with an "evil black rifle" is "Newtown" and "Aurora," because people are not used to seeing anyone doing this as a normal occurance: Media-hype has made this an aberration.

Maybe someone could only afford one firearm, and they are not good with a pistol, but wish to be able to defend themselves (wherever they might legally be). For this, an AR/AK is logical, but not PC.

Now, how about somewhere else, where it is expected, encouraged, and where it works:


and



Israel: They haven't had a school shooting since the '70s.

Yes, what this guy did was legal, but smart? I agree that it was not.

If we want to convince people that "guns are not bad" then we need to educate the fence-sitters, not only as to proposed legislation, but also current (selectively enforced) laws, and also to get them to handling them - to overcome the fear engendered by movies and news stories.
Inviting novices to the range is good, and necessary, but how do we educate folks more widely about the tools and the laws?
It seems to me that a "Weapons Fair" at some urban/suburban parks might be in order: Have tables set up with guns (and other tools), with firearms "experts" to show people how they work, how to safely handle them (let them touch them), and then invite them to a shooting event at a range somewhere. Have displays set up, listing rights/current laws/proposed laws, and expected second- and third-order effects of proposed legislation. Have citeable statistics available.

The point here is to educate those who don't know, to refute the arguments of the anti's with reasoned logic and supportable statistics, and to do it somewhere that would draw curious crowds. This won't happen at a "Gun Show," nor at the usual "2nd Amendment Event" where there are lots of scary-looking folks (with scary-looking guns) holding signs challenging the govt. to "come and take them." Then perhaps guys like the one this thread started over wouldn't feel the need (or have the justification) to do what he does.

Esther Short Park in Vancouver would be one excellent starting point.

After all, Bloomberg has a bus.

 

[The B]

Slung rifles on the city streets isn't special because Israel's been in a state of war for the better part of a century. And those are probably off-duty soldiers in those pictures... it's actually pretty hard to get a gun license, and they're really specific as to what you can carry. I don't think non-cop, non-soldier civilians are allowed to have rifles, but it's just a half-remembered guess.

 

[Blaylocke]

Slung rifles on the city streets isn't special because Israel's been in a state of war for the better part of a century. And those are probably off-duty soldiers in those pictures... it's actually pretty hard to get a gun license, and they're really specific as to what you can carry. I don't think non-cop, non-soldier civilians are allowed to have rifles, but it's just a half-remembered guess.

What Ben said. I have a cousin who has been to Israel. He say's the IDF will get off work, change out of uniform into some shorts and flipflops and walk to the beach with their rifles. Not sure what Israel's policy on citizen carry is, but I do know from him talking that most of the IDF carry 24/7.

Edit: By the way, IDF women are smoking hot.

 

[MrDe]

I'm not sure I want to live where open carry is normalized. Somalia is not high on my list of places to visit. BTW I'd call the cops too if I saw a skin-head armed with and AR walking down the streets of NE Portland - just saying.

 

[The B]

I wouldn't want to live in a place where it's beneficial to have a rifle. Here in urban/sub-urban PNW, it's just not beneficial- we don't have near enough random, violent crime to make the hassle of strapping an EBR everywhere you go a benefit. A 5-shot j-frame tucked into a concealed IWB is way more than 99.9% of us will ever need. This is a safe place, and a safe time in the history of our world/species.

I'm not one to sacrifice liberty for safety. You might remember one of my siglines- "Safety and liberty are contrary themes, and I'll always take liberty." I've considered looking at other places to move to, with less restriction on individual liberty... problem is, I just haven't found a civil society where there IS more individual liberty. We're it, people... the last bastion of civil liberty. You can go run around with machineguns and explosives all you want in a lot of countries.... but you'd BETTER, 'cause you're gonna need them there.

The older, calmer, wiser I get, the more I love right where I am.

 

[MikeSettles]

"Slung rifles on the city streets isn't special . . ." is exactly my point; and aren't we at war with someone just now anyway (many of the same folks who wish to "wipe Israel off the map"). Then there are drug gangs, MS13, etc. etc. etc.

Would you rather have to confront 3-5 armed bad guys with a semi-auto rifle and 30-round magazine, or a 6-shot revolver? Choose! (I prefer the rifle with a basic load of 210 rounds + pistol with 3 mags in a drop-leg holster - but then that's what I'm comfortable carrying. )

Regarding Israeli gun law: They had a mass-shooting; from Ha'aretz, 22 May 2013; "One day after a Be'er Sheva man shot dead four people in a local bank before turning his gun on himself, the Public Security Ministry on Tuesday announced new rules to limit the number of guns in circulation." and "'Limiting gun ownership is at the top of our agenda, and I intend to hold a weekly follow-up meeting on the subject,' Public Security Minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch said in the statement."

Sound familiar?

Maybe they've forgotten some of what made them strong before; same as some of us.

Guns in Israel: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law
Israel announces new gun-control rules after Be'er Sheva bank shooting - National - Israel News | Haaretz

 

[The B]

and aren't we at war with someone just now anyway

Um, nope. No war 'round here, bro.

 

[MikeSettles]

Um, nope. No war 'round here, bro.

Same attitude that led to 9/11: They have been in a war with us (ALL of us) since at least the Iranian Revolution of 1979. Not recognizing such is how it came to be that I went to Afghanistan three times. Just because it seems very far away, doesn't mean that it won't come here - if they can make it so.

Yamamoto (architect of the Pearl Harbor attack, studied at Princeton(?), former Naval Attache' to the US) is reputed to have said that it would be disasterous to invade the US, because "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Not so true anymore, what?

 

[The B]

Same attitude that led to 9/11: They have been in a war with us (ALL of us) since at least the Iranian Revolution of 1979. Not recognizing such is how it came to be that I went to Afghanistan three times. Just because it seems very far away, doesn't mean that it won't come here - if they can make it so.

Yamamoto (architect of the Pearl Harbor attack, studied at Princeton(?), former Naval Attache' to the US) is reputed to have said that it would be disasterous to invade the US, because "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Not so true anymore, what?

No, dude... no wars going on. If you think we're at "war," you're watching way too much Fox news.

What the hell does any of this have to do with walking around peaceful sub/urban streets with an AR over your shoulder?

 

[MikeSettles]

No, dude... no wars going on. If you think we're at "war," you're watching way too much Fox news.

What the hell does any of this have to do with walking around peaceful sub/urban streets with an AR over your shoulder?

Not talking (now) about "walking around peaceful sub/urban streets with an AR over your shoulder" (except that perhaps a community watch - some places - may care to do that).

Yes, I watch Fox - but that's not the point either: I've been there, and they WILL come here if they can, when they can. (They're here already: ONE group stopped as they entered via the illegal-immigrant trail; weapons/explosives came in via drug runners. One group stopped is the tip of the iceberg. One news story from several years ago. What else are the cartels bringing in besides dope? Think about it.)

Rather this: "I wouldn't want to live in a place where it's beneficial to have a rifle. Here in urban/sub-urban PNW, it's just not beneficial- we don't have near enough random, violent crime to make the hassle of strapping an EBR everywhere you go a benefit. A 5-shot j-frame tucked into a concealed IWB is way more than 99.9% of us will ever need. This is a safe place, and a safe time in the history of our world/species."

Yes, within our borders (for most), it's safer than any time in history. Outside of the inner cities like Chicago and Detroit, less and less violent crime. Does that mean that we should relax our guard?

Complacency kills.

 

[The B]

Does that mean that we should relax our guard?

Yes, yes it does. It means we should adapt to the changes of the world. In the "wild west," it was not inappropriate to walk around with a Winchester wedged in the crook of the arm and a Colt hanging off the hip in a lot of places we'd find golf courses and strip malls, now. It was a dangerous time and place, where people were spread out and criminals could frequently do their crimes without fear of witnesses to tell on them. Over the next 150 years, people filled in the empty spaces, law-enforcement professionalized and grew, and the validity of walking around with that kind of hardware gradually diminished to the point today where odds are overwhelmingly in favor of being able to go your entire natural life without ever needing a weapon to defend yourself.

Society evolved. It's not convenient, reasonable, feasible, nor remotely necessary to pack serious heat. These days, carrying a concealed pistol is nothing more than a seatbelt- a background safety feature that we have absolutely no intent or expectation to actually have to use, but want to have "just in case."

Progress, my man... it's a good thing.

 

[MikeSettles]

"just in case."

Key phrase.

Go ahead: Be complacent.

 

[The B]

Key phrase.

That's the only line you read, apparently.

Go ahead: Be complacent.

I guarantee you I'm less complacent unarmed than 95% of the fat, untrained, unpracticed heavy-metal packers on this board, bro. You don't know bubblegum about my level of preparedness, so don't go there.

 

[MikeSettles]

That's the only line you read, apparently.



I guarantee you I'm less complacent unarmed than 95% of the fat, untrained, unpracticed heavy-metal packers on this board, bro. You don't know bubblegum about my level of preparedness, so don't go there.

You apparently didn't read much of what I wrote, either.

Sure sounded like you were trying to convince others to not worry about what might be coming our way.

And . . . I'm not your bro. Bye now.

 

[soberups]

I think it needs to be widely known that this is lawful. Anyone slamming him is on the wrong side.

Rights come hand in hand with responsibilites.

What about his civic responsibility not to knowingly and deliberately provoke a response and tie up valuable police resources for no other reason than to draw attention to himself?

I support the right to open carry, but I also believe that right should be practiced with tact, discretion and compassion for others. Parading around in front of a school with an AR 15 serves no purpose other than to scare people and reinforce the negative stereotypes that many non gun owners have towards the rest of us.

Its sort of like freedom of speech and religion; I can support the right of the Westboro Baptist Church loonies to have and express whatever opinions they want of homosexuals, but when they start picketing funerals with their hateful garbage they are crossing a line and whatever message they are trying to convey gets drowned out by the utterly evil manner in which they are trying to convey it.

 

[soberups]

I think the guy in the video was a little butt-hurt about the fact that the officers didnt harass him. I think he wants to be harassed so that he can then play the victim and draw even more attention to himself. In no way were the cops in the video disrespectful or rude to him. They got 911 calls, they did their jobs by checking him out, and they left him alone. Move along, nothing to see here.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

I wouldn't want to live in a place where it's beneficial to have a rifle. Here in urban/sub-urban PNW, it's just not beneficial- we don't have near enough random, violent crime to make the hassle of strapping an EBR everywhere you go a benefit. A 5-shot j-frame tucked into a concealed IWB is way more than 99.9% of us will ever need. This is a safe place, and a safe time in the history of our world/species.

I'm not one to sacrifice liberty for safety. You might remember one of my siglines- "Safety and liberty are contrary themes, and I'll always take liberty." I've considered looking at other places to move to, with less restriction on individual liberty... problem is, I just haven't found a civil society where there IS more individual liberty. We're it, people... the last bastion of civil liberty. You can go run around with machineguns and explosives all you want in a lot of countries.... but you'd BETTER, 'cause you're gonna need them there.

The older, calmer, wiser I get, the more I love right where I am.

Its those who are unprepared that beg for mercy and assistance. Its NEVER about having "just enough".. Its the same argument of magazine capacity. Its not about having just enough, its about having what you'll need and enough of it when/if you might need it.

And yes, leos carry rifles for a reason, we should and have every right to do the same. We have all the same chances of running into scum as they.

And trust me WE DO have that kind of an issue here.
As a serviceman, Ive seen more than my fair share. There IS a reason I carry a pistol and rifle with me everywhere. Its not paranoia, its preparedness. Im also into redundancy.
Ive got a second knife and leatherman if one should break or wander off.

 

[Stomper]

Well then... we should just get rid of all of our nukes, being that the world is safer than at any other time in history.

 

[The B]

And trust me

why?

 

[The B]

Well then... we should just get rid of all of our nukes, being that the world is safer than at any other time in history.

Do you carry a nuke around with you? Do you want to see them paraded through the streets? We keep our nukes in the gun safe, right next to our ARs.