Maple Valley, WA - 2 burglars shot, 1 dies

[Father of four]

A thief does not have the right to take other peoples stuff. If it leads to the thief getting shot then its their own fought. No one should just have to stand there and let the thief steal from them. It is not about the stuff, its about the principle of the thing.

Jammer Six, if you wanna let people take everything that belongs to you then more power to ya.

 

[Jammer Six]

Jammer Six, if you wanna let people take everything that belongs to you then more power to ya.

I was carjacked. I stopped for what I thought was an accident. I was armed.

Guy took my car for a merry chase down I-5. I let him go. Cops got my car back, I went home, didn't have to hurt him.

Sitting here today, fifteen years on, it's better this way. Guy turned out to be stomp-down nuts. Had the mind of a ten year old. Told the cops he was running from aliens, and the reason he didn't have any shoes was so they couldn't track him.

It didn't have anything to do with rights. It didn't have anything to do with society. It didn't have anything to do with any principles. It had to do with him, me and my car. Everything else is baloney, and is like saying that walking into an ER with a heart attack has something to do with research into heart disease. It doesn't. That's fantasy.

I hope you never find out what you really will do, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm not interested in what you think you will do, what you imagine you will do, or even what you think would be right.

Because none of that matters.

Carry on.

 

[Father of four]

I am not saying go all crazy and shoot everyone that tries to steal from you or me. But to just disregard the fact that it might happen and it could be a moral and legal right to do so is well a bit foolish to me.

 

[Rotty]

I was carjacked. I stopped for what I thought was an accident. I was armed.

Guy took my car for a merry chase down I-5. I let him go. Cops got my car back, I went home, didn't have to hurt him.

Sitting here today, fifteen years on, it's better this way. Guy turned out to be stomp-down nuts. Had the mind of a ten year old. Told the cops he was running from aliens, and the reason he didn't have any shoes was so they couldn't track him.

It didn't have anything to do with rights. It didn't have anything to do with society. It didn't have anything to do with any principles. It had to do with him, me and my car. Everything else is baloney, and is like saying that walking into an ER with a heart attack has something to do with research into heart disease. It doesn't. That's fantasy.

I hope you never find out what you really will do, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm not interested in what you think you will do, what you imagine you will do, or even what you think would be right.

Because none of that matters.

Carry on.

I agree with your statement. "Discretion" is often times over looked when a person is faced with an unexpected situation. Resisting that urge to just react takes a level head to be able to quickly assess the situation and choose a course of action. If you are able to separate yourself from harms way then you should do so. In my mind that is the wiser choice. But when you are unable to get out of harms way then you fight with everything you got. Because all that matters at the end of the day is going home.

Me personally I can replace everything I own. However that doesn't mean I'm just going to let someone just walk in and take it.

I am wondering where your facts are. You seem to prefer statistical facts rather than opinion or personal experience but here you are with your personal experience and opinions. Not that either one is wrong, in fact I agree with you even though some of your comments in previos post seem to be overly critical and judgemental.

 

[MarkAd]

Weapons are not the only way to remain safe. "When all you have is a hammer..."

Then the hammer becomes the weapon.
Jammers aurgment are always a good demostration of how to be a round. brown oriface and sound pompus doing it.

Can not make any comment other then stealing is wrong and we all deal with it the best as we see fit based on what rules our hearts and minds.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Ah, a character assessment more eloquent than anything anyone else could write.

I think he was trying to make a point, rather than look for an opportunity

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Many of my neighbors have exactly such signs...

I seriously doubt that.

 

[Working 4 U]

So I have questions,


Do you stay in side and let them walk off with everything in your yard? Lawn furniture? Boats?

And something else I don't understand if I am in my house at 2 am and look out a window and see 2 guys sneaking around in MY YARD! THEY ARE A THREAT!!!!!! I am not just going to go back to bed and go to sleep. Man this pisses me off, THEY DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THERE! I AM TIRED OF IT BEING TURNED BACK ON THE LAW ABIDING CITIZEN! THE PROWLERS ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! THE POLITICIANS AND PEOPLE THAT VOTE IN THE POLITICIAN THAT MAKE THE LAWS ARE THE PROBLEM!!! Ok I'm done now.

 

[Jammer Six]

working, you need a class. Folks in your yard do not fullfill at least two prongs (of four) that you need to justify homicide.

It's not the prowlers in your yard upsetting you. It's a combination of fear and what you don't know.

 

[bzltyr]

OH WELL. TWO LESS CRIMINALS ON THE STREET.

 

[Rotty]

So I have questions,


Do you stay in side and let them walk off with everything in your yard? Lawn furniture? Boats?

And something else I don't understand if I am in my house at 2 am and look out a window and see 2 guys sneaking around in MY YARD! THEY ARE A THREAT!!!!!! I am not just going to go back to bed and go to sleep. Man this pisses me off, THEY DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THERE! I AM TIRED OF IT BEING TURNED BACK ON THE LAW ABIDING CITIZEN! THE PROWLERS ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! THE POLITICIANS AND PEOPLE THAT VOTE IN THE POLITICIAN THAT MAKE THE LAWS ARE THE PROBLEM!!! Ok I'm done now.

No you don't just let them take your stuff.
Step 1,
Dial 911 tell the dispatcher there is someone on your property. They have something in their hands but you can't tell if it's a weapon or not and make sure to tell the dispatcher you are in fear for your life.

Step 2,
Start turning on lights. Keep the house dark but turn on the outside lights. It makes seeing inside the house more difficult. The prowler will not be able to tell where you are inside the house and yet know that you are aware of their presence.

Step 3,
If you have a dog small, medium or large, friendly or mean it doesn't matter. The dog will go right to where they are. If they harm or kill the dog then they immediately become a threat. If you don't have a dog start yelling out of a window or doorway. You can have your gun at the ready while doing this. If they attempt to come in knowing you are there then they become a threat.

Chances are the prowler will flee the moment the lights come on. They do not want their presence to be known almost as if they fear the light. If they do not flee when the lights come that is where the dog comes in. It's best if the dog has some attitude and at least barks.

If the prowler does not flee and still doesn't get the hint you are aware of their presence then actually gets inside of your house, all bets are off. The threat is imminent. Now you can justify why you shot this hairball. You can present YOUR case to the Judge and explain the steps you took and show the prowler kept coming. You can show that you used the minimum amount of force necessary to terminate the threat.

A personal favorite of mine as a preventive measure that works great on cats, raccoons and prowlers. Strategically placed mouse traps, rat traps if you are feeling vicious. Down right hilarious when some prowler (most likely stupid kids) is getting into something they shouldn't. You hear snap! Muffled sounds of pain, some (maybe lots of) crashing, falling etc. Instant unexpected pain is a good teacher

Now Steps 1-3 only works if you are aware of their presence. The mouse trap stunt you don't even have to be home to enjoy that one.

 

[hermannr]

Many years ago, (at night) I pulled off the road between Sedro and Burlington to allow someone that was "pushing" me.. The person followed me off the road, jumped put of his vehicle screaming he was going to beat me to a pulp, grabbed my door handle, opened the door and reached in to grab me...that is until he noticed my OC Colt (still in it's holster)... and very quickly decided that he had other things to do, elsewhere.

I OC just because of that type of situation. I believe if you OC, those situations will resolve themselves without you needing to use your carry. At least that has been my experience. If you do need to use your carry, it will become apparent...normally, the run of the mill criminal will not challenge a visibly armed man.

 

[mjbskwim]

I see jammerhead sucks is still spewing his leftist BS I can't read the thread because I refuse to read his BS.
Why can't he just stay in seattle and be quiet? (well he kinda is,on my ignore list,lol)

Anyway The spokeswoman said you can defend yourself if you feel threatened.

AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE
Am I supposed to interview the SOB that is breaking into my stuff?
Am I supposed to wait until he decides to come to my door and try to kill me?

This is all BS. We need to be able to be preemptive about this so they don't have a chance to break into our house and cause more mayhem.
As stated before if they are stealing things to cause him to not be able to do his job and feed his family,there should be now question when he shoots someone.

We have to become proactive to stop the looting.
Reminds me about that statement,something about letting god sort them out.

 

[Jammer Six]

No, you don't have to interview him. You can do the time.

 

[hermannr]

No, you don't have to interview him. You can do the time.

Have you ever read RCW 9A.16.110?

 

[GuyBMeredith]

Yeah, it's best just to keep an eye on miscreants and get in contact with the police. Outside of general legal, moral or ethical questions, one of the first things we were taught in firearms home defense class is that even a good shoot is going to cost $40,000 in civil legal fees.

 

[hermannr]

Yeah, it's best just to keep an eye on miscreants and get in contact with the police. Outside of general legal, moral or ethical questions, one of the first things we were taught in firearms home defense class is that even a good shoot is going to cost $40,000 in civil legal fees.

Actually, here in WA a "good shot" will result in no prosecution, or the state will pay the freight..RCW 9A.16.110. Because the DAs understand this, it usually results in no prosecution.

 

[Rotty]

Have you ever read RCW 9A.16.110?

Key phrase "by any reasonable means" to defend yourself or property.

There are rules of engagement. You can't just jump to lethal force just because someone is on your property or has some of your belongings in their hands. You have to start with the minimum amount of force to terminate the threat. Depending on the threat will determine the level of force you apply. If you can terminate the threat simply by turning on a light or yelling then you stop. If the threat continues then you escalate the use of force up to and including deadly force. Deadly force is always a last ditch resort and a Judge will always see it that way. Depending on the situation you may find yourself thrust into a life or death scenario where the only "reasonable means" is deadly force. In which case you respond accordingly. But for Joe Schmuck prowler outside rummaging through your shed "No" you can't just shoot them. I agree you may want to BUT you have to keep your wits about you and keep thinking. If you just react you eliminate all of your options. A thinking man keeps his options open.

If you jump straight to deadly force, see ya in jail/prison.

 

[hermannr]

Key phrase "by any reasonable means" to defend yourself or property.

There are rules of engagement. You can't just jump to lethal force just because someone is on your property or has some of your belongings in their hands. You have to start with the minimum amount of force to terminate the threat. Depending on the threat will determine the level of force you apply. If you can terminate the threat simply by turning on a light or yelling then you stop. If the threat continues then you escalate the use of force up to and including deadly force. Deadly force is always a last ditch resort and a Judge will always see it that way. Depending on the situation you may find yourself thrust into a life or death scenario where the only "reasonable means" is deadly force. In which case you respond accordingly. But for Joe Schmuck prowler outside rummaging through your shed "No" you can't just shoot them. I agree you may want to BUT you have to keep your wits about you and keep thinking. If you just react you eliminate all of your options. A thinking man keeps his options open.

If you jump straight to deadly force, see ya in jail/prison.

If you are in your personal dwelling, your business, or anywhere you may feel your health and safety is threatened outside those, you can respond in any manner you feel is appropriate and available to you at the time. Yes, you can shoot a unarmed intruder, and it still can be a good shot.

You are correct in that if someone were to simply trespass on my land, my first response cannot be to just shoot the person. However, I find OC completely sufficient so far in those cases. Only a fool would challenge an openly armed man. But should they challenge me...I do have the RIGHT to defend myself if I feel threatened...and they do not have to be armed themselves for me to defend myself with my weapons, I only need to feel threatened.

Who am I going to try fight? I'm over 65 years old and had polio when I was 6. It was not so bad that I had to spend my life in a wheel chair, but it did effect my co-ordination, so I do not try fight anyone.

 

[JV100]

Wowsers!... ugly.