Loaded firearms in vehicles.

[JAFO]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but based on dialog I have had with legal types it is my understanding in Oregon (not WA) your car is not considered private property in the terms of a dwelling or actual land. Thus, if you have a firearm in your car and you drive onto work's owned parking lot your rights are superseded by the property owner of the land you drove upon. It appears that maybe in WA this isn't the same way based on the rulings.

This varies widely state to state.

You must be referring to the appeals court ruling on Bryan Ward vs State of Oregon. It basicaly says your car is a public place while operated on public roads. It says nothing about ownership while on private property.

Oregon Firearms Federation

 

[PhantomWorks]

@ "Fisher Bill"
Are you in Oregon? Those carry rules is new to me, and it seams that it would been known in some way here in WA if it was here...

 

[hermannr]

When I got my carry permit a couple of the things that stuck out at me was;

Even though you have a permit and you're in a car you cannot let a passenger have access to that weapon so if it is not concealed on your person it has to be locked up so no passenger can get access to it.

If you are leagally over the limit to drive due to alcohol then you are no longer allowed to carry while under the influence.

If you have a Costso card you have actually signed an agreement stating that you will not bring a firearm into their store.

Even though you have a carry permit and someone sees you in the store reaching for something on the bottom shelf and sees the print of a gun you could still be sited for being a public nuisance.

The instructor I went to said to lock your gun unloaded and put your ammo in another part of the car.

I'm not sure if this is 100% (old age) or how it relates to this post but the Costco thing caught me off gaurd.

Right now my house is on the market so I have a carry locked in my glovebox, loaded.

If I'm wearing the right clothes (like today, causual Friday) then it's on my person.

Say what? There is so much wrong with what you posted, I have no idea where to start.

If your weapon is on your person, on your hip openly (ORS 166.250(3), or concealed on your person (If you have a CHL/CPL) you can legally carry that weapon in your automobile, or on foot anywhere it is legal for you to have a pistol. It is in your possession, no, one elses. That whole line is BS. If your "instructor" told you that...he does not know the LAW. Read the LAW...For you: ORS 166, for WA: RCW 9.41, know the LAW and follow the LAW. Remember, that which is not specifically prohibited, is permitted. There is no OR law that states what you said in Paragraph 2.

Paragraph 3: Yes, if you are DUI...lock that gun up until you are legally sober better yet, just don't go out a drink to the point of being DUI...if you wish to get drunk, do it at home.

I have had a Costco card for over 30 years. I have NEVER seen anything on it, or in the rules, that states you may not carry. There is a private corporate letter out to management that basically states, if you do not want to allow open carry of firearms in your store, you may, if you do not, you can ban weapons in your store....It is up to your local management. I have OPEN CARRIED in both Bellingham and Burlington.

Next paragraph: What he is talking about here is called "printing"...There is no law on printing in WA, OR, ID, or NV or about 30+ more states. TX yes, but not out here, Openly Carried pistols can be carried anywhere concealed pistols can, in OR and WA.. Anyone that tells you differently is trying to make his opinioon equal to law. I have openly carried a pistol on my hip (as in ORS 166.250(3)) since 1970. Granted, mostly in WA, but also in OR and ID. It is totally legal, and in all three states you do not even need a license to do so. (OR and WA do have some restrictions on unlicensed OC, but none on licensed OC) If you have your CHL/CPL you can carry openly anywhere you can carry concealed...this line is just the biggest bunch of BS.

Next paragraph: Locked in a locked container, with ammo locked somewhere else, will get you through every state in the Union (including CA, NY, NJ, and IL) under federal transport law....You do not even need to think about that BS out here in OR, WA, ID or NV

Read the law..sounds like your "instructor" propagated a whole pile of male bovine excretement.

 

[hermannr]

@ "Fisher Bill"
Are you in Oregon? Those carry rules is new to me, and it seams that it would been known in some way here in WA if it was here...

A couple places you never try to get your legal information from: A firearms instructor and a cop.

What his instructor told him (or at least what he heard) is total BS

If you want to know what the law is, read the law that was written by the legislature, read the court decissions, and/or pay a lawyer

 

[deen_ad]

3. Loaded/not loaded means nothing in Washington State. I can have a loaded G36 under my seat. As long as it's not in plain view, I'm fine. I don't even have to lock my car doors. (But you're a fool if you don't.)

True, IF you have a CPL, otherwise it's illegal to have a loaded handgun in your vehicle, unless it's in plain sight.

 

[hermannr]

A little off on a NW forum...but I will give you an example of what happens when people listen to stuff, as law, that is not law.

Blackstone says: "that which is not specifically prohibited, is permitted" This is basic British common law.

In NY, in the state constitution, it specifically states...if it is not specifically addressed in NYS law, NY will follow British common law.

In NYS there is NO PL (Their ORS or RCW) That specifically states you cannot openly carry a weapon. There is a law (PL 265) that states you cannot possess a concealable weapon without a license issued under PL 400.00 (actually, what we would call a "carry" license is in PL 400.00(2)(f)) That is right folks, you cannot even handle a pistol in a gun store, and you cannot take that pistol home with you unless the SN is on your permit.

Anyway, it is common belief in NYS that even if you have a license to "have and to carry" you cannot openly carry a pistol (as in ORS 166.250(3)) in NY unless you are hunting. Do you think anyone can come up with the LAW to back that up? Nope...the law does not exist...can anyone show any court case where someone has been convicted of a crime for OCing a pistol? Nope, does not exist...But I will tell you...Go on a NY forum and talk about open carry, and all you will hear is "you cannot do that in NY" The loudest is....firearms instructors...it is a self perpetuated urban ledgend that you cannot open carry in NY...but it is so ingrained...everyone believes it...after all, that is what I was taught in my firearms class.... Answer...READ THE LAW,,, know the law...and do not listen to BS.

 

[hermannr]

True, IF you have a CPL, otherwise it's illegal to have a loaded handgun in your vehicle, unless it's in plain sight.

That is not OR or WA law...like I said, read the LAW as it was written. WA law is pretty well written, OR is not bad. Same goes for ID.

WA law says you may not have a loaded pistol (concealed or openly carried) in a vehicle, without a license, (RCW 9.41.050) and then gives a whole bunch of exceptions (.050 does not apply to) in RCW 9.41.060. In ORS 166.250(3) it states...this does not apply to a pistol that is openly carried in a holster on your hip.

In WA, general UNLICENSED OC of a concealable weapon in a vehicle, concealed or openly carried, is not legal if it is loaded. If it is unloaded. it does not meet the prohibition. Also, there are a lot of execptions to that rule in .060.

In OR, UNLICENSED loaded OC is legal, in a vehicle or not, except in local government jurisdiictions that have enacted local code per ORS 166.173. Unfortunately, ORS 166.173 does not just effect you when you are in a Vehicle, it also effects you when you are on foot. This does not effect anyone that has a license to carry, and they can only restrict LOADED carry without a license, not open carry.

Loaded Concealed carry, without a license or exemption, is not allowed in either OR or WA

HOWEVER, in both states, all of this stupidness disappears with a CHL/CPL, (See RCW 9.41.060 and ORS 166.260)

 

[Fisher Bill]

Wow sorry guys, I never said anything about law and I didn't mean to say those were laws.

When I think back we we're actually in Utah in our minds so to speak to qualify the class for that state also, if one wanted to.

When I said these things stuck out in my mind I should have mentioned they were in the spirt of of saftey, not law. The class did over some laws but the instructor tried to give possible situations that could "possibly" get you in legal trouble in one way or another and that it might be in your best interest to avoid any kind of mistake.

Any situation where you can avoid a confrontation in the first place is probably the best way to go but he was pretty sure sounding about the costco thing, somewhere deep in the t & c's he said it was there, but then quickley added that is would be rather hard to enforce.

The 'printing' comment was made in reference to his suggestion to be aware of doing it in public and that to avoid letting people see you carry might prevent something as petty as (and this was his story) Some older woman prints you in the store and freaks out and tells the manager, he calls the cops because the women was frantic and scared or whatever and you have a situation. His view is to do everything you can by concealing in the best possible way to avoid a situation of mistaken intentions, so again, not law.

Same with the ammo comment, these were safety suggestions, again I was just relaying what he deemed safer than what's just leagal.

So please forgive me as it's pretty obvioius by now that I'M NO EXPERT and never claimed to be, just relaying things I remembered in a class that was supposed to be in Utah.

I have a lot to learn, I've read all of the comments above and appreciate you guys setting me straight as far as what is indeed leagal so I'll watch closer how I word things.

Bill

 

[badclam]

So I have a question about Oregon firearm law. When I go to my friends ranch in Oregon, everyone carries loaded rifles in their trucks.
Bolt actions, Mini 14s, ect. They tell me it's legal, but being a lifer of Wa. it's hard to believe.

So can you carry a loaded rifle in your vehicle in Oregon?

 

[hermannr]

So I have a question about Oregon firearm law. When I go to my friends ranch in Oregon, everyone carries loaded rifles in their trucks.
Bolt actions, Mini 14s, ect. They tell me it's legal, but being a lifer of Wa. it's hard to believe.

So can you carry a loaded rifle in your vehicle in Oregon?

WA prohibition on loaded long gun carry is anti-poaching legislation and is in RCW 77 (F&W code) There is no prohibition to loaded carry im OR in ORS 166 (general firearms law) I believe OR F&W law is in like ORS 496? to 498? Somewhere up there...I am not up on OR F&W law, but It would not surprise me that it is legal/

 

[hermannr]

Wow sorry guys, I never said anything about law and I didn't mean to say those were laws.

When I think back we we're actually in Utah in our minds so to speak to qualify the class for that state also, if one wanted to.

When I said these things stuck out in my mind I should have mentioned they were in the spirt of of saftey, not law. The class did over some laws but the instructor tried to give possible situations that could "possibly" get you in legal trouble in one way or another and that it might be in your best interest to avoid any kind of mistake.

Any situation where you can avoid a confrontation in the first place is probably the best way to go but he was pretty sure sounding about the costco thing, somewhere deep in the t & c's he said it was there, but then quickly added that is would be rather hard to enforce.

The 'printing' comment was made in reference to his suggestion to be aware of doing it in public and that to avoid letting people see you carry might prevent something as petty as (and this was his story) Some older woman prints you in the store and freaks out and tells the manager, he calls the cops because the women was frantic and scared or whatever and you have a situation. His view is to do everything you can by concealing in the best possible way to avoid a situation of mistaken intentions, so again, not law.

Same with the ammo comment, these were safety suggestions, again I was just relaying what he deemed safer than what's just leagal.

So please forgive me as it's pretty obvioius by now that I'M NO EXPERT and never claimed to be, just relaying things I remembered in a class that was supposed to be in Utah.

I have a lot to learn, I've read all of the comments above and appreciate you guys setting me straight as far as what is indeed leagal so I'll watch closer how I word things.

Bill

Well Bill, what do I say. Let's start with UNLICENSED open carry. in quirkyness..Utah would be worst, then OR (with their ORS 166.173 cities), Then WA with their unloaded, if unlicensed, in a vehicle, but with all the exemptions in RCW 9.41.060 nulifying the prohibition much of the time...and then there is ID, where OC is king, thanks to the Idaho Supreme Court decision "in re Brickly" back in 1902. Gettin a little farther afield, there is the MT aberition where you can OC (licensed or unlicensed) into a bar or restaraunt that serves, but you cannot conceal, even if you are licensed.

This is the reason you MUST study each state seperately. The one given is federal safe transport law, which is the same everywhere...but useless except to get your carry through places like NY, NJ, MA, and CA.

None of the states of OR, WA, ID, NV, MT, WY....etc.... prohibit unlicensed OC, none of these states prohibit, in any manner, licensed OC, though MT does restrict licensed CC in Bars and restaraunts that serve.

I know very little about Utah other than my WA CPL is recognized, and their unlicensed OC is screwy. I have been in Utah a couple times, but it was only becasue I was on my way somewhere else. So, as for Utah, I cannot say anything.

I lived in Oregon in the 50's and 60's. I have lived in, (or at least owned property and considered myself a WA resident since 1970...even while I was still in the military) I first carried (OC) in WA in 1970, and I do know OR and WA law fairly well.

I did have a MWAG call made on me about 25-30 years ago, while I was shopping for camp supplies (see RCW 9.41.060(8)) The Sheriff's deputy arrived as I was just finishing loading our camper...Deputy "hunting?" Me "yep" Deputy (to himself) "nothing illegal here"...yep that was the total conversation.

I will give you a second incidence...not me...but overheard and posted on OCDO...at the Mt Vernon, WA DMV. (this is a one sided conversation to 911, you fill in the blanks) Caller: I am at the MT Vernon DMV and there is a man with a gun here.... No, it is in a holster in his hip...no he is not doing anything with it....but he has a gun!...well Ok. You can fill in the blanks...no, no-one showed up.

I actually do not care is a sheep calls in to 911 and says there is a MWAG at XXXX...here in Okanogan Co it same as in MT Vernon, the 911 operator makes sure the person with the gun is doing something they should not be doing before then send anyone. There are too few Sheriff's deputies to check out stupid calls, and with budget cuts, and fewer LEOs available, you will see more of this typre of response. You also need to read some court cases, like Prouse V Delaware (US) and for OR, State V Boyanovsky both are about random stops for license/sobriety checks but both apply to any random stop/license check.

In 40 year of Open Carry...yes, I mean as per ORS 166.250(3), I have never caused any horses to panic, or old women stampede. And you are worried about "printing"?

I have openly carried since 1970...that is 42 years, almost 43 years, and have had one MWAG call done on me...and I OC everywhere. I don't like to conceal, and do not unless the weather is really bad and I have a coat on...I refuse to dress for my carry, I don't live in TX, and hate visiting our oldest daughter (lives in TX). We have visited two times in the last 20 yaers,,,just got down to,,,you came up here and visit your mom...I'm not driving down there again...I do not like TX gun law.

TX has laws on "printing" OR, WA, ID, MT, and NV do not. Most states do not...not even NYS. Printing is pure BS. If you are afraid of a MWAG call being made on you, you just do not know your state law well enough. If you have a CHL, you can even tell Portland PD to stuff it. Don't worry about printing....BTW: if you are worried about "older women" (like my retirement age wife) maybe you should...she can shoot better than I can.