Loaded firearms in vehicles.

[Sgt Nambu]

Lucky here in OR we have very few restrictions on where you can carry and my work doesn't have a weapons policy so I carry all the time; however, I have a question for you. Do you ever go to restricted location during the day. Say you are out at work and you need to run by the Post Office or that you have to go in for jury duty. Do you leave the gun at home all day?

At least the OP is asking the questions and is willing to listen to advice. I have a safe that is secured to my vehicle with a heavy cable for when I have to leave my gun in the truck for legal reasons. I do admit that if there is a determined thief that the safe will like be taken though. Does that make me irresponsible? To me it just means that I have done all that I can do to mitigate the potential of my gun being stolen. And since we are blaming everyone but the thief here, why don't we just blame the governments and companies that but in place rules that force us to remove the gun from our person?

Answer; I use a very heavy aircraft cable attached to a welded rear seat bracket, attached in such a way as to be hidden and unable to be defeated without tearing the rear seats out (4door PU). This rig is completed by a large Kryptonite armored lock. It is all I can do to reach back to lock the trigger guard to the cable and I have long arms and small hands. In addition I have an excellent alarm system. The OP did not ask about tech advice, he asked about legality, which I admit did hack me off some. Read my original post, "if you can't secure it leave it at home!" YOU secure yours, I secure mine, so where's your problem? Read every word that I wrote. Where did I ever say don't blame the criminals? Hammurabi's code works for me! Done!

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Answer; I use a very heavy aircraft cable attached to a welded rear seat bracket, attached in such a way as to be hidden and unable to be defeated without tearing the rear seats out (4door PU). This rig is completed by a large Kryptonite armored lock. It is all I can do to reach back to lock the trigger guard to the cable and I have long arms and small hands. In addition I have an excellent alarm system. The OP did not ask about tech advice, he asked about legality, which I admit did hack me off some. Read my original post, "if you can't secure it leave it at home!" YOU secure yours, I secure mine, so where's your problem? Read every word that I wrote. Where did I ever say don't blame the criminals? Hammurabi's code works for me! Done!

Please honor us with a picture of your set-up. maybe people can learn something.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Stuff you with your simple minded! You keep ranting property, property, like a darned parrot! It's a loaded firearm! Have you ever heard of a MORAL OBLIGATION! I guess you will probably never get it. You should feel very bad if someone manages to steal your gun! Not so much your danged hammer or what ever.

Just what "moral" responsibility does a gun owner have? And who's morals are they?

What about the guns you leave in your home every day? What is someone steals one of those. Most risk assessment specialists say you are many more times more likely to have a firearm stolen from your home than your car.

 

[9MilMan]

My wife leaves the pistol in the rig and takes the magazine with her.

 

[PhantomWorks]

Can't carry at work. I'm a mechanic/machinist and withaving to climb around on big engines etc. the cover/west idea won't work.
And the main question I wanted to get info on was if there would be and issues and it doesn't seams to be.

Interesting to see some of you guys different ideas and look upon how things should be done! And how heated a simple opinion can get.

Thanks y'all!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Answer; I use a very heavy aircraft cable attached to a welded rear seat bracket, attached in such a way as to be hidden and unable to be defeated without tearing the rear seats out (4door PU). This rig is completed by a large Kryptonite armored lock. It is all I can do to reach back to lock the trigger guard to the cable and I have long arms and small hands. In addition I have an excellent alarm system. The OP did not ask about tech advice, he asked about legality, which I admit did hack me off some. Read my original post, "if you can't secure it leave it at home!" YOU secure yours, I secure mine, so where's your problem? Read every word that I wrote. Where did I ever say don't blame the criminals? Hammurabi's code works for me! Done!

Hammurabi

No one but you and I and 2 other people know who the dude was, my friend

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Can't carry at work. I'm a mechanic/machinist and withaving to climb around on big engines etc. the cover/west idea won't work.
And the main question I wanted to get info on was if there would be and issues and it doesn't seams to be.

Interesting to see some of you guys different ideas and look upon how things should be done! And how heated a simple opinion can get.

Thanks y'all!

I always carried at work. Try a .380 or maybe a Beretta 9MM Nano. Google Thunderwear. Better than nothing

 

[swoop]

Hammurabi's laws:
If someone cuts down a tree on someone else's land, he will pay for it.
If someone is careless when watering his fields, and he floods someone else's by accident, he will pay for the grain he has ruined.
If a man wants to throw his son out of the house, he has to go before a judge and say, "I don't want my son to live in my house any more." The judge will find out the reasons. If the reasons are not good, the man can't throw his son out.
If the son has done some great evil to his father, his father must forgive him the first time. But if he has done something evil twice, his father can throw him out.
If a thief steals a cow, a sheep, a donkey, a pig, or a goat, he will pay ten times what it is worth. If he doesn't have any money to pay with, he will be put to death.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. If a man puts out the eye of another man, put his own eye out. If he knocks out another man's tooth, knock out his own tooth. If he breaks another man's bone, break his own bone.
If a doctor operates a patient and the patient dies, the doctor's hand will be cut off.
If a builder builds a house, and that house collapses and kills the owner's son, the builder's son will be put to death.
If a robber is caught breaking a hole into the house so that he can get in and steal, he will be put to death in front of that hole.
If a son strike his own father, his hands shall be cut off.

I like that!

 

[g.i. joe]

Right. I worked at a big box store for 7 years and I found a way to deep carry undetected. Im sure the Big Box store policy would not support it, but screw em. They had potentially deadly weapons hanging on most of the store shelves anyway.
Another option, start your own business and allow yourself to carry

 

[fd15k]

Hammurabi's laws:
If someone cuts down a tree on someone else's land, he will pay for it.
If someone is careless when watering his fields, and he floods someone else's by accident, he will pay for the grain he has ruined.
If a man wants to throw his son out of the house, he has to go before a judge and say, "I don't want my son to live in my house any more." The judge will find out the reasons. If the reasons are not good, the man can't throw his son out.
If the son has done some great evil to his father, his father must forgive him the first time. But if he has done something evil twice, his father can throw him out.
If a thief steals a cow, a sheep, a donkey, a pig, or a goat, he will pay ten times what it is worth. If he doesn't have any money to pay with, he will be put to death.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. If a man puts out the eye of another man, put his own eye out. If he knocks out another man's tooth, knock out his own tooth. If he breaks another man's bone, break his own bone.
If a doctor operates a patient and the patient dies, the doctor's hand will be cut off.
If a builder builds a house, and that house collapses and kills the owner's son, the builder's son will be put to death.
If a robber is caught breaking a hole into the house so that he can get in and steal, he will be put to death in front of that hole.
If a son strike his own father, his hands shall be cut off.

Not too bad for barbarians.

 

[Misterbill]

Got to think about the legal issues, or lack there off about having a loaded firearm in my car.
I got a CPL so the transporting part is covered, but my employer don't allow guns on there premises so I leave it in the glovebox. Same when hitting the bar afterwork!
But...
What would happen if my car get broken into and it's stolen...
Am I'm in trouble if loaded? Should I bring mags, ammo etc. with me? Same, same if it's not loaded?

OK, let me answer your questions:

1. If it's on your employer's property, you have no rights. Their property, their rules. They can fire you for leaving it in your car in THEIR parking lot. -Park on the street, leave the gun out of sight (locks not required) you're fine. Personally, I'd leave it in a locked glove to prevent trivial theft or in a lock-box attached to the frame.

2. If your gun is STOLEN, report it to the police. After that you have no issues. Not a single liability suit I'm aware of.

3. Loaded/not loaded means nothing in Washington State. I can have a loaded G36 under my seat. As long as it's not in plain view, I'm fine. I don't even have to lock my car doors. (But you're a fool if you don't.)

 

[hermannr]

OK, let me answer your questions:

1. If it's on your employer's property, you have no rights. Their property, their rules. They can fire you for leaving it in your car in THEIR parking lot. -Park on the street, leave the gun out of sight (locks not required) you're fine. Personally, I'd leave it in a locked glove to prevent trivial theft or in a lock-box attached to the frame.

2. If your gun is STOLEN, report it to the police. After that you have no issues. Not a single liability suit I'm aware of.

3. Loaded/not loaded means nothing in Washington State. I can have a loaded G36 under my seat. As long as it's not in plain view, I'm fine. I don't even have to lock my car doors. (But you're a fool if you don't.)

Statement #1 is a bit overboard, Your car is your private property, and your rights as a property owner rule...That is why, in your car, in WA, you are considered to have a conceal firearm, even if it is in "full view" . You might wnat to read the whole of the opinion on Seattle V Mesiani and teh WA supreme courts thoughts on automobiles...read the whole thing.

If I work someplace that provides parking in WA, I am an invited guest as concerns my automobile.

 

[cueball1214]

Hammurabi

No one but you and I and 2 other people know who the dude was, my friend

Basicly the man who came up with the justice model Eye for an Eye......
One of the first set of laws followed by a society if i remember correctly from Jr. High.

 

[SturgeonSlayer]

I'm a bit confused here with all the back and forth arguing, I work in Oregon for a major corporation, I have tried to find the statutes that outline the legalities of having a gun in a vehicle on private property. someone posted earlier there property there rules ! but is this actually true for a vehicle in a parking lot ? I have heard that even if the parking lot is private property if it is not a secure lot (no fencing and gates) that company's could not tell you that you cant have a weapon in the vehicle due to the fact the lot is open to the public. I will respect the rules of the company as far as the buildings go. Just wondering...

 

[Morpheus]

Statement #1 is a bit overboard, Your car is your private property, and your rights as a property owner rule...That is why, in your car, in WA, you are considered to have a conceal firearm, even if it is in "full view" . You might wnat to read the whole of the opinion on Seattle V Mesiani and teh WA supreme courts thoughts on automobiles...read the whole thing.

If I work someplace that provides parking in WA, I am an invited guest as concerns my automobile.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but based on dialog I have had with legal types it is my understanding in Oregon (not WA) your car is not considered private property in the terms of a dwelling or actual land. Thus, if you have a firearm in your car and you drive onto work's owned parking lot your rights are superseded by the property owner of the land you drove upon. It appears that maybe in WA this isn't the same way based on the rulings.

This varies widely state to state.

 

[hermannr]

I'm a bit confused here with all the back and forth arguing, I work in Oregon for a major corporation, I have tried to find the statutes that outline the legalities of having a gun in a vehicle on private property. someone posted earlier there property there rules ! but is this actually true for a vehicle in a parking lot ? I have heard that even if the parking lot is private property if it is not a secure lot (no fencing and gates) that company's could not tell you that you cant have a weapon in the vehicle due to the fact the lot is open to the public. I will respect the rules of the company as far as the buildings go. Just wondering...

Something else a lot of people forget...there is a legal principle it states "That which is not specifically PROHIBITED BY LAW is permitted" The reason you do not see anything is because there is no prohibition in law.

If a company want to restrict my rights on their property that is not open to the public, and I sign a contract with them that I will abide by their rules, then I am bound by contract, NOT LAW. If they would have a provision in that contact that I not posess a firearm on their property, I would not possess a firearm on THEIR property...but that does not mean I would not possess a firearm in my car...which is MY Property...EVERYWHERE IN THE US...it is only their property if they pay for it and maintain it in their name, and all I do is use it.

No state will allow the siezure of your property just because you drove onto a private parking lot. Some companies might want you to sign a contract that they can look in your car when it is on their property....line that part out, or don't work for them...remember, the only power an employer has over the employee is through contract law, based on a contract you voluntarily sign.

 

[2506]

I think Gunny just about sums it up for me:

Jesus H Christ. Private Pyle, why is your footlocker unlocked?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, I don't know, sir.
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Pyle, if there is one thing in this world that I hate, it is an unlocked footlocker! You know that don't you?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, yes, sir.
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: If it wasn't for dickheads like you, there wouldn't be any thievery in this world, would there?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, no, sir.

 

[hermannr]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but based on dialog I have had with legal types it is my understanding in Oregon (not WA) your car is not considered private property in the terms of a dwelling or actual land. Thus, if you have a firearm in your car and you drive onto work's owned parking lot your rights are superseded by the property owner of the land you drove upon. It appears that maybe in WA this isn't the same way based on the rulings.

This varies widely state to state.

If it is your car (you bought and paid for it) it is your property...your car does NOT automatically become their property because you drove into their parking lot...If they provid a parking spot for you, your car still does not become theirs. It is as simple as that.

BTW: Contract law is funny when it comes to employee/employer relationships. They can restrict you when you are on the job, but not when you are off the job, unless you sign a specifically agreement that as "a condition of employment" you will/will not do such. I never went to work for one company because they had such condition's in the contact...was not about firearms, but IMHO, what I do off the job is none of their business.

think about it this way, the states that have specific laws as to firearms in a vehicle on company property have modified contarct law...the legislatures have said, you cannot make this a "condition of employment". Those states that have no law have not modified contract law to the point that an employer can make such "a condition of employment". Doesn't matter anyway, as your property is yours, not theirs, and just because you park in their parking lot does not change that.

 

[Misterbill]

Statement #1 is a bit overboard, Your car is your private property, and your rights as a property owner rule...That is why, in your car, in WA, you are considered to have a conceal firearm, even if it is in "full view" . You might wnat to read the whole of the opinion on Seattle V Mesiani and teh WA supreme courts thoughts on automobiles...read the whole thing.

If I work someplace that provides parking in WA, I am an invited guest as concerns my automobile.

It doesn't work that way. You might like it to work that way or think it should, but it doesn't. Plenty of people have been fired for having a gun in their car in violation of company policy. Every one of those cases has won on appeal. This is why they have passed laws in a few states requiring that employers allow employees to keep their guns in their cars. The case you mention is about privacy vs compelling State interest. it has nothing to do with your purely voluntary association with your employer and that employer's rights to terminate you if you violate their rules, particularly while on their property.

 

[Fisher Bill]

When I got my carry permit a couple of the things that stuck out at me was;

Even though you have a permit and you're in a car you cannot let a passenger have access to that weapon so if it is not concealed on your person it has to be locked up so no passenger can get access to it.

If you are leagally over the limit to drive due to alcohol then you are no longer allowed to carry while under the influence.

If you have a Costso card you have actually signed an agreement stating that you will not bring a firearm into their store.

Even though you have a carry permit and someone sees you in the store reaching for something on the bottom shelf and sees the print of a gun you could still be sited for being a public nuisance.

The instructor I went to said to lock your gun unloaded and put your ammo in another part of the car.

I'm not sure if this is 100% (old age) or how it relates to this post but the Costco thing caught me off gaurd.

Right now my house is on the market so I have a carry locked in my glovebox, loaded.

If I'm wearing the right clothes (like today, causual Friday) then it's on my person.