Load Development Method

[17LiveFree76]

I went through similar groups with 6.5 creedmore 140g Berger hybrids. I Kept getting flingers and wasn't getting the groups I knew the rifle was capable of. I did .5 increments and then took my best 2 groups and did a +\- of .2. Still didn't get the results I wanted. Then I seated the bullets deeper and started over and nailed it. 3 bullet holes touching each other and very consistent with the velocities.

 

[Koda]

I went through similar groups with 6.5 creedmore 140g Berger hybrids. I Kept getting flingers and wasn't getting the groups I knew the rifle was capable of. I did .5 increments and then took my best 2 groups and did a +\- of .2. Still didn't get the results I wanted. Then I seated the bullets deeper and started over and nailed it. 3 bullet holes touching each other and very consistent with the velocities.

one of the things Ive discovered is how much my factory trigger affects grouping and I can see now how that can affect load development. Ive always thought my trigger was pretty decent for factory so Ive never upgraded it but after I got my action bedded and cut my groupings in half Ive learned now I can actually feel the amount of travel in it as Ive focused more on consistent pulls to get tighter groups. At some point I will be upgrading I decided but thats another subject.
Anyways, theres a couple of shots in the sweet spot there I could consider fliers. I recall "calling" a flier thru the shooting process but since I was shooting the groups "round robin" style I lost track and cant remember which one. But I notice those groups still shoot close to the same POI but if I took the fliers out I could eliminate the 50.5gn group from the next round of tests.

 

[17LiveFree76]

I don't keep loads that are throwing flingers. I keep playing with it until those are eliminated and I have a load I can trust long range.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

The load data youre seeing is definitely run through a liability lawyer before its published. Odds are you COULD go hotter if you choose, but know that quite often, there's a rough inversely proportionate difference between the hotter you go and your accuracy past a certain threshold. I wouldn't load any less than five rounds of each charge, i've had enough chrono malfunctions to know that only one or two on a slightly less that optimum day light conditions will ruin my pursuit of data. Id also argue that for rifle stuff, half grain increments are fine and can you can split tenths later. Find your mid range load is hard to extract and the primers are blown? Stop, go home and break those down and create a ladder in smaller increments DOWN from there, in .2 grain increments. Loading subs is a different story though. Also get a chronograph.

 

[17LiveFree76]

Are you logging velocities? Shooting the same brass? Using a concentricity dial? These are all things that have helped me. I also have rifles that hate jump and others that need jump

 

[17LiveFree76]

The load data youre seeing is definitely run through a liability lawyer before its published. Odds are you COULD go hotter if you choose, but know that quite often, there's a rough inversely proportionate difference between the hotter you go and your accuracy past a certain threshold. I wouldn't load any less than five rounds of each charge, i've had enough chrono malfunctions to know that only one or two on a slightly less that optimum day light conditions will ruin my pursuit of data. Id also argue that for rifle stuff, half grain increments are fine and can you can split tenths later. Find your mid range load is hard to extract and the primers are blown? Stop, go home and break those down and create a ladder in smaller increments DOWN from there, in .2 grain increments. Loading subs is a different story though. Also get a chronograph.

I rarely find a max load that is my best

 

[Koda]

I don't keep loads that are throwing flingers. I keep playing with it until those are eliminated and I have a load I can trust long range.

Im trying to decipher if those are fliers, they arent that far off what my typical grouping is with factory loads also.

Are you logging velocities? Shooting the same brass? Using a concentricity dial? These are all things that have helped me. I also have rifles that hate jump and others that need jump

have chrono and logging all velocities of every shot, not certain yet how to interpret the data here but happy that this potential sweet spot is at least 3000fps as my min goal... this is a hunting round Im working on and want at least 3000fps.
Shooting the same brass but concerned about quality there as seeing signs of pressure at the case head on once fired brass just from firing the factory Hornady bullet (might change brass mfg.)
Im totally new to reloading, like, this is my first reloads literally... and dont have a concentricity dial... yet, planning on it but ran out of money getting set up and lucky to have even found primers and powder. Im using up my factory inventory stash just to have brass to reload, Hornady brass. I have checked my chambers COAL to the lands and have very meticulously set back all loads .020" as a starting point.... no idea, yet, what jump my rifle likes best.

 

[Koda]

The load data youre seeing is definitely run through a liability lawyer before its published. Odds are you COULD go hotter if you choose, but know that quite often, there's a rough inversely proportionate difference between the hotter you go and your accuracy past a certain threshold. I wouldn't load any less than five rounds of each charge, i've had enough chrono malfunctions to know that only one or two on a slightly less that optimum day light conditions will ruin my pursuit of data. Id also argue that for rifle stuff, half grain increments are fine and can you can split tenths later. Find your mid range load is hard to extract and the primers are blown? Stop, go home and break those down and create a ladder in smaller increments DOWN from there, in .2 grain increments. Loading subs is a different story though. Also get a chronograph.

This is helpful, thank you. From my sources 53gn is max and I intentionally stopped at 52gn for this reason, thought I was contemplating 52.5gn. So far no signs of excessive pressure though Im seeing the primers flatten out a bit more than the rounds charged on the low end.

 

[17LiveFree76]

Im trying to decipher if those are fliers, they arent that far off what my typical grouping is with factory loads also.

have chrono and logging all velocities of every shot, not certain yet how to interpret the data here but happy that this potential sweet spot is at least 3000fps as my min goal... this is a hunting round Im working on and want at least 3000fps.
Shooting the same brass but concerned about quality there as seeing signs of pressure at the case head on once fired brass just from firing the factory Hornady bullet (might change brass mfg.)
Im totally new to reloading, like, this is my first reloads literally... and dont have a concentricity dial... yet, planning on it but ran out of money getting set up and lucky to have even found primers and powder. Im using up my factory inventory stash just to have brass to reload, Hornady brass. I have checked my chambers COAL to the lands and have very meticulously set back all loads .020" as a starting point.... no idea, yet, what jump my rifle likes best.

I buy all new Hornady brass and I keep it all batched by how many times it's been fired. I have found by doing this it helps keep everything consistent. I quit using my brass for precision shooting after 3 shots. I seem to get less runout by doing that. Using my chrono I watch the velocities. I usually find my flingers have some kind of a velocity difference. I usually like to go .010 off lands or .030. My last custom rifle I had built, those guys told me to go with a Berger bullets loaded as long as my mag would allow and it worked great. What bullet are you using?

 

[Koda]

I buy all new Hornady brass and I keep it all batched by how many times it's been fired. I have found by doing this it helps keep everything consistent. I quit using my brass for precision shooting after 3 shots. I seem to get less runout by doing that. Using my chrono I watch the velocities. I usually find my flingers have some kind of a velocity difference. I usually like to go .010 off lands or .030. My last custom rifle I had built, those guys told me to go with a Berger bullets loaded as long as my mag would allow and it worked great. What bullet are you using?

Im using Nosler 120g Partitions with Hornady brass. Im very curious if you get a pressure ring on your new Hornady brass case head area after only its first time firing?


photo: once fired Hornady brass...


(there is one single Federal brass that got in the pic by accident..., the rest are Hornady)

 

[17LiveFree76]

Im using Nosler 120g Partitions with Hornady brass. Im very curious if you get a pressure ring on your new Hornady brass case head area after only its first time firing?


photo: once fired Hornady brass...
View attachment 843331

Are you staying under the book recommended loads? And you are probably loading long to get .020 from lands so I couldn't imagine causing excess pressures in once fired brass. I have loaded Hornady brass pretty hot and even run it ten shots in 300wm and haven't had any signs It's hard to tell what I'm seeing in a pic.

 

[17LiveFree76]

Another thing, I started using accubond when I started going long range. I found a lot of variance in bullets weights causing flingers and inconsistent patterns Some dudes in sniperhide forum recommended Hornady ELD or Berger hybrids. I switched and had huge improvements. They also work wonders on game also

 

[Koda]

Are you staying under the book recommended loads? And you are probably loading long to get .020 from lands so I couldn't imagine causing excess pressures in once fired brass. I have loaded Hornady brass pretty hot and even run it ten shots in 300wm and haven't had any signs It's hard to tell what I'm seeing in a pic.

Im staying under 2 different published sources. In fact, loading to the very low end Im getting a ring around the case head area on all Horandy once fired brass from their factory loading (pic).

 

[17LiveFree76]

When you say set back .020. Do you mean you are .020 off lands or do you mean you set bullet deeper?

 

[Koda]

When you say set back .020. Do you mean you are .020 off lands or do you mean you set bullet deeper?

.020" off the lands, away from the lands.

 

[Aongus]

The backstory on this is I was reading on the web different development methods and this one, the Ladder Test, seemed to make sense. I think what tripped me up here is for a brand new beginner... this was literally my first ever reloads, I wasnt consistent enough in measuring my charges so my velocity "ladder" is too erratic to find any obvious "flat" spots where the velocity doesnt change much with the charge increase for a few rounds. If I understand the method correctly it quickly shows the velocity that the barrel harmonics for my rifle like best, essentially what all methods home in on for those wanting accuracy.

In normal times a total beginner would have ample supply of powder/primers etc just go to the store and buy more if needed and try again.

So one thing to note, if you have wind it can play havoc with measuring out loads. Reloading in my buddies garage with the door open made that clear more than once. That chronograph is your friend, also be aware that some powders are more temperature stable than others.

 

[DizzyJ]

I like what I'm seeing around the 52.0 mark. Might play around with a few charge weights .2-.3 grains above and below that as well as reconfirm with 52.0

As far as the sizing ring around the outside of the base? Good chance is just a sizing ring which is often times normal. As long as there's no ring inside the case at the base (near the head), you should be ok. You can check this with a paper clip bent to 90 degrees and drag it along the inside of the case from the head to the shoulder junction and feel for the paper clip tip to "hang up" on the ring. That's the beginnings of head separation and that's a bad thing.

Caveat; I cannot see these cases very well from my end so caution is warranted.

Watch for severely flattened primers, cratered primers, hard (difficult) extraction, ejector marks on the head, etc etc.

 

[17LiveFree76]

One rule I have followed since I first started loading was, if there is any doubt, stop and try to find someone more experienced to help in person. I agree with Dizzy, and am also guessing sizing ring but key word is guessing. I still can't imagine pressure warning if you are staying under max book load and seating bullet long. That tells me you are probably cold but it's possible there is a factor we don't see

 

[Koda]

Im not detecting a ring inside the case, but keep in mind this is from firing the new brass not from running them thru the sizing die. I opened a box of new factory rounds, fired one and showed to an experienced reloader at the range and it baffled him too, his only suggestion was that Hornady brass was on the low end of quality brass though hes never seen that happen before. Primers looked good on even my heaviest load.

I think I have a sweet spot around the 51.5/52gn area to refine and work with

 

[Used To Hunt]

You need to measure the case head with a micrometer with vernier scale before and after shooting to better understand that ring you see. Do not trust a caliper for serious measurements. If you read the instructions on the best brands (mitutoyo, starret etc.) they say +-.001 accuracy. A micrometer with a vernier scale is good to .0001. Calipers a great tools but don't trust those numbers beyond +-.001. The fourth decimal place on calipers are irrelevant, any experienced machinist will agree that calipers lack precision. Use them for quick checks of things like c.o.a.l. but not important measurements.

Also most people don't understand that the inside diameter measurements with calipers have a large error (relatively speaking) due to the coordinate segment gap bridged by the small flat on the jaws. In other words, if you measure inside your case neck, your actual diameter is larger than the reading you are recording.