Kaliforication at it again!!!

[OLDNEWBIE]

The underlying problem is lawyers. Defense attorneys wait until the last hour before a trial to submit a guilty plea, as a bargaining tactic with prosecution. Meantime, dozens of citizens are summoned for a trial which never happens. Thousands of hours of time are wasted, on the off-chance meth-head Bubba can do community service instead of getting another felony on his record.

Ever been called for jury duty, then sent home? You were just a pawn in that bargaining game.

A lot of people just can't afford to take time off from work. Also I've had employers in the past tell me to try and get out of it because it would not be a good time for them etc.
As I said before there has to be a better way as the system now makes a jury of your peers impossible. I'm sure you don't find many blue collar non union types in the jury, or small businessmen. I'ts just not set up to be a good cross section of America. I feel guilty when I get out of it but I have legit reasons.

 

[Stomper]

Do you also like the fearmongering and manufacture of phantom enemies that Heinlein stated is the prerequisite for militarist societies?

I hear you on that, and I agree with where you're going. I do however appreciate that if everyone served in either a military or civil service capacity for 2-3 years while they're young enough to be fit, investing themselves in the society they benefit from to keep it safe and make it better/sronger, then they would be less likely to vote it away for "freebies" and "security" at the expense of liberty. There are just too many who have no "skin" in the game that are all too happy to vote themselves other peoples' chickens into their pots without working for it... other than thinking that existing makes them entitled to it, because this is "Amerika, yo"!

You do have to admit though, we truly have a very real and effective enemy that is no phantom by any means... from within.

 

[Botte Hork]

Met a woman from Australia and her husband at the Salem rally in February that said she was working on citizenship and that it was very expensive for a family. If I recall, the husband was a Navy veteran and had spent some time on subs. Was that you?

Just saw it's $680 for the N400 (application for naturalization) and $600 for the N600 (application for certificate of citizenship). I guess there's also some exam to pass on history/govt knowledge, plus no doubt associated travel fees if you need to go for an interview and what not. I'll be up for that in about 3 years I guess. That's the cost per person, so if your loins were particularly fruitful, that can have quite the impact on one's savings.

Oh yeah, plus another $600+ for the CMP M1 Garand that I am then finally eligible to get through them.

 

[dmancornell]

I hear you on that, and I agree with where you're going. I do however appreciate that if everyone served in either a military or civil service capacity for 2-3 years while they're young enough to be fit, investing themselves in the society the benefit from to keep it safe and make it better/sronger then they would be less likely to vote it away for "freebies" and "security" at the expense of liberty. There are just too many who have no "skin" in the game that are all too happy to vote themselves other peoples' chickens into their pots without working for it... other than thinking than existing makes them entitled to it, because this is "Amerika, yo"!

You do have to admit though, we truly have a very real and effective enemy that is no phantom by any means... from within.

When's the last time the armed forces fought the domestic enemy? Last time I checked the domestic enemy gives the orders to the armed forces.

As Smedley Butler said, either have mandatory conscription without exception, or abolish the armed forces. Better yet, draft the children of every single government "employee" and force them all into combat duty. That way they wouldn't be so cavalier about sending the youth to die in some faraway hellhole.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Whether it is picking vegetables in the fields, cleaning up motel rooms, or serving on juries, immigrants do the jobs that American citizens don't want to do.

Wrong, especially in this "economy"... while American teenagers act the fool and do nothing. Never forget they are INVADERS and commit a huge amount of violent crimes here. Maybe your mom, sister or daughter, next

 

[Bam]

This is BLEEPING madness. No other country in the world would even consider allowing non citizens on their juries, so what the heck is Cullyfornia doing?

 

[Brutus57]

Federal Service Guarantees Citizenship...Would you like to know more?

I always found it hilarious how Heinlein's book which I read in 1970 only has a few lines in common with the campy movie STARSHIP TROOPERS of the same name from a dozen or so years back. Both entertaining in their own way, to me at least.

Brutus out

 

[mrblond]

Federal Service Guarantees Citizenship...Would you like to know more?

I always found it hilarious how Heinlein's book which I read in 1970 only has a few lines in common with the campy movie STARSHIP TROOPERS of the same name from a dozen or so years back. Both entertaining in their own way, to me at least.

Brutus out

staring doogie howser and a few awful actors. Least the red headed bird took her top off.

 

[hermannr]

Well...I'll interject some experience here. In 1970 my section commander ordered me to get my citizenship. I was teaching a US Citizen only class (US Army). and that was the end of it. He said go, I went, along with one of the students in the class. A 6' 2", blond, blue eyed LT by the name of Castro..yes, he was Cuban, but not related to Fidel.

We had both served in Vietnam and the Major said that was all that was necessary. He did not care how long we had been legal in the US.

Anyway, the US Army paid for me. I had been a green card since 1955, but never had a great desire to give up my Canadian citizenship...it was good business to be able to move freely and work on either side of the border. My sister got her US Citizenship about the same time, and then promptly married a Canadian and moved back to Canada.

PS: Oh yes, as to the OP...I wonder how CA intends to implement this new idea, as every place I have lived they take the jury pool from the list of REGISTERED VOTERS.

 

[mancat]

Whether it is picking vegetables in the fields, cleaning up motel rooms, or serving on juries, immigrants do the jobs that American citizens don't want to do.

Bull bubbleguming bubblegum.

My dad used to pick fruit in Wenatchee during college, during spring break and in the summer. He paid a good part of his tuition doing it.

Do I even need to say anything about who picks the fruit now, and how much they get paid?

 

[Blue Devil PA]

LOL, the government preys on the citizenry, how can serving in the military teach you anything about civics?

Protip: Heinlein wasn't a militarist, Starship Troopers was a "thought experiment", in his own words.

I do not agree with the country preying upon it's citizens, at some point everyone should serve in something other than their self interest. If you didn't, you won't understand and don't deserve to question those that did. If you did, thanks for your service, but I still respectfully disagree with you.

“The soldier is the Army. No army is better than its soldiers. The Soldier is also a citizen. In fact, the highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms for one’s country”
― George S. Patton Jr

 

[dmancornell]

I do not agree with the country preying upon it's citizens, at some point everyone should serve in something other than their self interest. If you didn't, you won't understand and don't deserve to question those that did. If you did, thanks for your service, but I still respectfully disagree with you.

"The soldier is the Army. No army is better than its soldiers. The Soldier is also a citizen. In fact, the highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms for one's country"
― George S. Patton Jr

Well they steal money out of every paycheck, take away most of your Constitutional rights, re-interprete the Commerce Clause to seize total economic power, and balkanize the population by starting wars on minority groups. But nah, they don't prey on the people.

Maybe the government should actually explain the rationale for its wars and convince that it is the self interest of citizens to join up, instead of forcibly enslaving people into their armed battalions. Given the corrupt, criminal nature of today's government, the people who refuse to serve the state are the true patriotic citizens. I am obligated not to serve such an abomination.

 

[Stomper]

When's the last time the armed forces fought the domestic enemy? Last time I checked the domestic enemy gives the orders to the armed forces.

As Smedley Butler said, either have mandatory conscription without exception, or abolish the armed forces. Better yet, draft the children of every single government "employee" and force them all into combat duty. That way they wouldn't be so cavalier about sending the youth to die in some faraway hellhole.

Well they steal money out of every paycheck, take away most of your Constitutional rights, re-interprete the Commerce Clause to seize total economic power, and balkanize the population by starting wars on minority groups. But nah, they don't prey on the people.

Maybe the government should actually explain the rationale for its wars and convince that it is the self interest of citizens to join up, instead of forcibly enslaving people into their armed battalions. Given the corrupt, criminal nature of today's government, the people who refuse to serve the state are the true patriotic citizens. I am obligated not to serve such an abomination.

Dman, you'll get no argument from me on most of what you said. My only point is that I suspect the attitude of the citizenry would be much different if they actually stepped up and volunteered for service in a military or civil capacity before getting a voting franchise. If it were the case, perhaps our country wouldn't be so... decimated.

 

[dmancornell]

Dman, you'll get no argument from me on most of what you said. My only point is that I suspect the attitude of the citizenry would be much different if they actually stepped up and volunteered for service in a military or civil capacity before getting a voting franchise. If it were the case, perhaps our country wouldn't be so... decimated.

There's many ways to pay back the community, many of which do not involve the state. The state does not serve the people, so arguing that one gives back to the community by working for the government is fallacious.

Also, I don't question the motives of people who do decide to serve in the armed forces, what I object to is some of them holding the arrogant attitude that their "service" is more important than what other people choose to do. George S Patton would be one of them. The chutzpah of a man who yaps incessantly about "moral courage" and yet has no qualms ordering a cavalry charge on unarmed WW1 veterans protesting on Pennsylvania Ave.

 

[quneur]

Absolutely not. Jurors in this nation should be citizens. If you have a problem with immigration then take it up with immigration and leave the judicial system alone. There may come a day when one of us are on the other side (like involuntary manslaughter for defending a friend or family from a badguy) and would you will want a jury made up of people that does not understand our rights to bear arms?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

There are indeed many ways to serve. I did so yesterday with a $1 can of spray paint, covering over Central American gang graffiti on a nearby building

 

[Rotty]

Sounds like maybe they are having problems finding qualified jurors within their own citizens.

 

[Botte Hork]

Wrong, especially in this "economy"... while American teenagers act the fool and do nothing. Never forget they are INVADERS and commit a huge amount of violent crimes here. Maybe your mom, sister or daughter, next

So, as an immigrant doing work that no suitable American could be found for at the time (a slight difference), am I also an "invader", oops "INVADER", allegedly committing violent crimes, implying I'd apparently assault someone's mom, sister or daughter? Please do tell me, as I hadn't noticed anything like this yet. But maybe my stupid foreign brain is to dumb to understand what is criminal and what is not.

 

[nick1980]

Wrong, especially in this "economy"... while American teenagers act the fool and do nothing. Never forget they are INVADERS and commit a huge amount of violent crimes here. Maybe your mom, sister or daughter, next

Unfortunately your family once invaded this county also, now we are stuck with you.

Immigrants are the hardest working people I know and do the work the fat lazy Americans won't do.

 

[speeddemon94]

Unfortunately your family once invaded this county also, now we are stuck with you.

Immigrants are the hardest working people I know and do the work the fat lazy Americans won't do.

You really do like that Kool Aid, dontcha?

The southern invasion is the cause of the condition you speak of. Like someone stated before: the farm and orchard jobs were great for the kids in this country.

But then the owners found people they could pay pennies in comparison and further the greed. Yeah yeah, our families invaded this country.

Close the borders, and the jobs will have to get done somehow.