Just in, new mass shooting in another school today, 14 possibly dead 2 children confirmed dead... :(

[RVTECH]

allowing any body to impose any Restriction Tax

Well, except for The Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act of 1937 - but it was not intended to be restrictive.

 

[bkroger86]

Paul Gosar deletes tweet blaming Texas shooting on transgender ‘alien’

Arizona Republican was stripped of committee assignments last year

www.independent.co.uk

If the conspiracy theory is too nutty for Paul Gosar, it's probably too nutty for anyone.

A close runner up is MT "Jewish Space Laser" Greene.

 

[taters613]

@taters613 , it's far more plausible that the speed and universal access to social media has made these very specific types of events proliferate. Moving to legally restrict a fairly narrow type of tool really won't change the motivation to commit these acts.
Once again, the appeal of this legal restriction is that it's easy.
Easy rarely makes a difference in complex, long standing issues.

Your point about social media is absolutely valid and rational, as are the points of other folks regarding mental health issues and that long-standing problem we call "evil".
However: does anyone here have an actionable suggestion for how we can resolve these problems?
I'm fairly certain that mental health issues, including those that result in horrific violence, have been around since the literal dawn of humanity with no sign of abating, and the same can be said for "evil" (as well as the gray area between the two!).
Ironically, other folks have acknowledged that the underlying problems of mental health and "just plain evil" are not going away anytime soon, but have used this fact to support unregulated access to all types of weapons. And frankly, I only disagree with two nuances of that stance: the "unregulated" part, and the "…all types…" part!

 

[Will_White]

Your point about social media is absolutely valid and rational, as are the points of other folks regarding mental health issues and that long-standing problem we call "evil".
However: does anyone here have an actionable suggestion for how we can resolve these problems?
I'm fairly certain that mental health issues, including those that result in horrific violence, have been around since the literal dawn of humanity with no sign of abating, and the same can be said for "evil" (as well as the gray area between the two!).
Ironically, other folks have acknowledged that the underlying problems of mental health and "just plain evil" are not going away anytime soon, but have used this fact to support unregulated access to all types of weapons. And frankly, I only disagree with two nuances of that stance: the "unregulated" part, and the "…all types…" part!

The violently mentally ill used to institutionalized or kept hidden at home, there were good reasons for the dismantling of the Asylum system, but it wasn't replaced with anything and it shows.

De-stigmatize mental health treatment, increase access to mental health treatment, maybe even subsidize mental health treatment, and give specialists the tools they need without violating people's rights.

 

[RobMa]

Your point about social media is absolutely valid and rational, as are the points of other folks regarding mental health issues and that long-standing problem we call "evil".
However: does anyone here have an actionable suggestion for how we can resolve these problems?
I'm fairly certain that mental health issues, including those that result in horrific violence, have been around since the literal dawn of humanity with no sign of abating, and the same can be said for "evil" (as well as the gray area between the two!).
Ironically, other folks have acknowledged that the underlying problems of mental health and "just plain evil" are not going away anytime soon, but have used this fact to support unregulated access to all types of weapons. And frankly, I only disagree with two nuances of that stance: the "unregulated" part, and the "…all types…" part!

So, lets just ban all guns since it is to much work to fix the real problem. Lets just be lazy and put a band aid on it in the hopes that it does not happen again.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

For those of who don't know me...
I am the Dean of Students for a elementary school.

It was a tough day today.
Lots of questions , worries , concerns and the like.
I did my best to reassure students , staff and parents.

There are no simple easy answers to the questions that arise after event like these.

I do know that if we continue to apply the same solutions to the same problems...
We will get the same results.
If we want a different outcome...we gotta think , work and act differently.

Again I ask ...
That all here remember that people have died , folks are hurting and scared....and to stop bickering among ourselves.
Andy

 

[Jay Walk]

Edited

 

[Hueco]

---

# 1. Be excellent to each other

---

By all means, have the debate on policies that may or may not have affected this tragedy. But, do not forget that we are all gun owners here.

State your point. Make your case. However, your dialectical opponent's character, morality, and motivations are OFF LIMITS.

Attack the idea, befriend the man.

 

[RobMa]

For those of who don't know me...
I am the Dean of Students for a elementary school.

It was a tough day today.
Lots of questions , worries , concerns and the like.
I did my best to reassure students , staff and parents.

There are no simple easy answers to the questions that arise after event like these.

I do know that if we continue to apply the same solutions to the same problems...
We will get the same results.
If we want a different outcome...we gotta think , work and act differently.

Again I ask ...
That all here remember that people have died , folks are hurting and scared....and to stop bickering among ourselves.
Andy

La Conner is very nice, I visit there quite often. But I digress, everything you said was true... my heart and prayers go out to the families of the fallen children. This should never have happened...

 

[Knobgoblin]

Your point about social media is absolutely valid and rational, as are the points of other folks regarding mental health issues and that long-standing problem we call "evil".
However: does anyone here have an actionable suggestion for how we can resolve these problems?
I'm fairly certain that mental health issues, including those that result in horrific violence, have been around since the literal dawn of humanity with no sign of abating, and the same can be said for "evil" (as well as the gray area between the two!).
Ironically, other folks have acknowledged that the underlying problems of mental health and "just plain evil" are not going away anytime soon, but have used this fact to support unregulated access to all types of weapons. And frankly, I only disagree with two nuances of that stance: the "unregulated" part, and the "…all types…" part!

Bump stocks, ghost guns, high capacity, assault type. None of these really matter. I will even play devil's advocate for a moment . Wave a magic wand and tonight , every self loading firearm and magazine over 10 rounds vanishes forever. All plans and knowledge of the same objects and materials are gone as well. But the addiction to notoriety and knowledge that a random mass killing is a sure ticket to that fame remains? In less than 5 years we would see homemade truck bombs and rampant arson . Possibly even sword and knife attacks.
Lack of access to a tool will just lead to substitute tools being used.

 

[nammac]

Sounds like the local police got shot up and needed the Feds to bring in a tactical unit.

"The shooting began to unfold on Tuesday morning, when the local police department in Uvalde received a 911 call around 11:30 a.m. saying that a truck had crashed at Robb Elementary School and that a man had emerged from it carrying a long rifle and a backpack.

At least one armed law enforcement officer from the Uvalde school district was at the school. That officer exchanged gunfire with the gunman, but the gunman was able to get past the officer, the official said, citing the initial reports.

The gunman then entered through a south door at the school. After he was inside, two officers from the Uvalde Police Department arrived on the scene, engaged the gunman and were immediately met with gunfire, the official said. Both were shot.

It appeared that the gunman was contained in one classroom at that time, and the officers were unable to enter it. He remained there until a tactical unit from the border patrol killed the gunman, shortly after 1 p.m., the official said, citing state police reports."

You know what this means, the city and the school district are going to be writing big checks for the deaths of those children and adults at the school…

 

[slimmer13]

I'm fairly certain that mental health issues, including those that result in horrific violence, have been around since the literal dawn of humanity with no sign of abating, and the same can be said for "evil" (as well as the gray area between the two!).

Not like this. There were alot of people that were barely keeping it together, and then the pandemic hit with all that came along with it.

As far as prevention, the only way to make a soft target safer is to make it less soft. Not super feasible for every situation, but schools should be hardened.

I disagree with the notion that if you ban semi auto rifles, a person that has the depravity, malice and hate to make the decision to harm our most innocent and vulnerable would change their mind.

 

[CamoDeafie]

350+ million guns in the US. A large percentage being ARs. Billions likely of rounds of all types. Millions of 15+/20+ rd magazines for both handguns and rifles. Thousand+ sets of body armor not in military hands (yes, police is considered civilian). Hundreds, if not thousand of ballistic helmets in civilian hands, from M1 steel pots, to Kevlar PASGTs, to ACH/MICHs to whatever the new hotness is (high cuts)

Really, its all the more "amazing" that such mass murders are not as widespread as the amounts of tools and gear available.

 

[RedRover]

Your sarcasm is not appreciated.
And no: as an engineer, I don't expect "perfection" out of any system.
However, to take your automotive analogy one step further: I do support laws requiring that automotive manufacturers include certain pieces of safety equipment to help mitigate risks. A little thing called "the Seatbelt", for instance. I also support a controversial concept called the "drivers license", which is meant to ensure that only responsible and capable individuals end out behind the wheel of a car. Having an analogous system of licensing around firearm ownership seems like such an obvious necessity that, if we hadn't been marinating in politically divisive rhetoric for the past few decades, I doubt that such a proposal would even be a divisive issue!
Are these types of systems "perfect"?! Absolutely not! But I would be the last person in the world to be rallying against either the seatbelt or the drivers license.

How does requiring a license ensure unauthorized persons from getting behind the wheel?

I would confidently state that the vast majority of people(if only barely short of absolute) view these mass-murder events as tragedies. Of course the natural response is how to prevent, or at the least, limit these events from occurring in the future.

Since we are using vehicles as a comparison...

More children are killed every year in school bus accidents than are killed in school shootings. Yet... Are there calls to ban school buses? Would there be more of an uproar if the events (and pictures of the affected children) were plastered across the national media for days and weeks on end?

The fact is, there are more deaths in this country attributed to automobile crashes annually than all deaths attributed to firearms combined(2/3rds of which are suicide).

How many of these vehicle deaths are preventable?

Where are the calls to set the speed limit to only 10 mph? Who needs a car capable of driving 50 mph or 100 mph?
Where are the laws requiring that a private car sale must go through a licensed dealer w/ associated fees assessed.
Where are the calls to require a background check every time someone wants to fill up on gas?
Where are the laws that require a vehicle owner to safely secure their vehicle from theft; holding them potentially legally responsible if they failed to properly secure their vehicle (and/or report it stolen in a timely manner), and it is later stolen and used in the commission of a crime?
Where are the laws allowing to sue auto manufacturers, when their products are criminally misused resulting in death or injury?

It deserves reiterating that 10s of thousands people are killed every year due to vehicle related crashes. These are real people not numbers. They are family, friends, co-workers and yes.....many are innocent children.

So, as a society, are we simply willing to accept this large amount of death as a price to pay for the convenience of automobiles?

Mass-murderers will always find a way to carry out their heinous crimes. Many have used legal acquired tools to do so. Whether it's a terrorist driving a box-truck through a crowded pedestrian street in Nice, France; killing and maiming dozens; a van plowing through people crossing a bridge in London, England; or a truck speeding through a walkway in NYC, or Christmas parade in Waukesha, WI.

How many of these senseless tragedies need to happen until we do something and ban motor vehicles?

I would suggest those that do nothing, are complicit and they ought to be demonized and ostracized in society(SARCASM).

 

[Ura-Ki]

For those of who don't know me...
I am the Dean of Students for a elementary school.

It was a tough day today.
Lots of questions , worries , concerns and the like.
I did my best to reassure students , staff and parents.

There are no simple easy answers to the questions that arise after event like these.

I do know that if we continue to apply the same solutions to the same problems...
We will get the same results.
If we want a different outcome...we gotta think , work and act differently.

Again I ask ...
That all here remember that people have died , folks are hurting and scared....and to stop bickering among ourselves.
Andy

Thank you for reminding everyone of the lives needlessly lost, and the pain and suffering inflicted upon the survivors!
I can only imagine what a situation like this puts you through, and you have my utmost respect for being "That Guy" when needed most!


I have a bit or experience in "Hardening" schools to prevent all sorts of tragedies, from Parental Kidnapping, Drunk Driving, and yes, Mass Shootings!
I have written about this before, but it's something we as a society should be talking about more, and then acting on!

Part of what I did was design and develop a central entrance/exit strategy in full view of a manned security station with real time CCTV Cameras, bullet proof glass, and one way doors that could be switched from entrance to exit, also manned by trained security personal and or staff! All interior doors were Badge Access only, once the class room doors were shut, there was no possible entrance by any one with out badge clearance!

We can do it, we need to spend the funds to make it happen in every school to protect that which is most important to us all!

 

[slimmer13]

We can do it, we need to spend the funds to make it happen in every school to protect that which is most important to us all!

Ukraine?

 

[Ura-Ki]

Ukraine?

Ask the Big Guy!

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

The issue is the definition

With all due respect, I would suggest the actual issue is all too often someone will make these kinds of wild, unsubstantiated and inflammatory claims and when asked to back up the claim with verifiable data the OP will have all kinds of reasons why said data is unavailable, unreliable or unnecessary to validate the claim.

 

[Member 3687]

Where did the handgun come from? He was under 21, living in a house with a convicted felon who stated that, had he known Ramos had firearms in the house, would have turned him in.

It is against the law for some one under the age of 21 from buying a hand gun from an FFL per federal law but in many states a person can buy and own a handgun from a private party at 18.

I am not sure what Texas law is but in Idaho it is 18 from a private party.

Just FYI

 

[billdeserthills]

Commonly touted policies are ill-suited to stopping mass shooters

Commonly Touted Policies Are Ill-Suited to Stopping Mass Shooters

"In New York," former Gov. Andrew Cuomo bragged on Sunday, "we passed the best [gun control] laws in the nation."…

reason.com