Just a question, Do you still fill out a 4473 when you pick up your NFA trust item?

[IronMonster]

Just like the title says

In Washington state when you have the stamps come back approved on a suppressor do you still fill out a 4473 when you pick it up or is the stamp in hand everything you need?

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[etrain16]

Not sure, but good to see you poke your head in again IM

 

[jbett98]

In Oregon you fill out the 4473 and they call it in for approval, just like buying a gun.
That way, it proves you're the person on the trust who applied to the ATF, and it also checks to see if you're still legally able to receive the item.
They will also require thumbprints.

 

[IronMonster]

Ive been insanely busy. I landed a big industrial gig and I have been working 16 hour days starting at 4:30 AM. I quit carrying my phone to try and get more work done and I simply dont feel like spending the few moments I have to myself a day on the computer. Im sure someday I'll get through this but at the moment it is what it is.

I did get the call that I have two cans awaiting pickup though, I have had a real problem with delay's though and I am worried about having to make the 4 hour drive to pick them up twice if I have to deal with a 4473

 

[etrain16]

Ive been insanely busy. I landed a big industrial gig and I have been working 16 hour days starting at 4:30 AM. I quit carrying my phone to try and get more work done and I simply dont feel like spending the few moments I have to myself a day on the computer. Im sure someday I'll get through this but at the moment it is what it is.

I did get the call that I have two cans awaiting pickup though, I have had a real problem with delay's though and I am worried about having to make the 4 hour drive to pick them up twice if I have to deal with a 4473

Well, maybe when you get a chance to catch your breath and pick up those bad boys, you can tell us all about them

Now, get back to work

 

[ThePhonMan]

I'm in WA and I've picked up 2 cans and a Colt 6933 SBR (all using a Trust) this year and each time I have to do a 4473. The idea is that they have to run the NICs check on the person picking it up.

Sorry IM, it sucks but it seems to be the rule. Maybe it's just for folks who go the Trust route but I doubt it.

 

[The B]

A suppressor requires a 4473? Is it a "firearm?"

 

[IronMonster]

Washington state does not consider a suppressor a firearm, however of course the Feds do

 

[PDXSparky]

A suppressor requires a 4473? Is it a "firearm?"

I don't know about it being a "firearm", but it is an NFA item. When I've purchased stamped items from a FFL, had to do the 4437. When I've purchased from private parties, no background check (which has changed now )

 

[Modeler]

ATF requires a 4473 to be completed (and a background check done) when an NFA item owned by a trust is picked up from an FFL. At least that's what one of my former FFL's told me, after he got in trouble and ultimately lost his FFL for not doing it.

 

[Norm0931]

Just like the title says

In Washington state when you have the stamps come back approved on a suppressor do you still fill out a 4473 when you pick it up or is the stamp in hand everything you need?

Yes for 2 reasons. First, federal law mandates that all firearms that leave a dealer require a 4473 except firearms in for gunsmithing that do not change owners.
Second, the ATF can't do a background check on the Form 4 because the Trust isn't a person. Therefore, the dealer is required to run a background check on a trustee who picks up the item. IF it weren't a trust, a 4473 is still required, but there is a separate box instead of processing a check that is for NFA items that have already had a background check run by ATF.

A suppressor requires a 4473? Is it a "firearm?"

According to the ATF a suppressor is a firearm.

 

[del_and_bones]

ATF requires a 4473 to be completed (and a background check done) when an NFA item owned by a trust is picked up from an FFL...

This is correct.I chatted up the owner of Rapidfire Arms about trust transfers and he said they had to call in a background check on trust transfers.

I bought/built all my NFA items as an individual. Each dealer had me fill out a 4473, but didn't call it in since there had already been a background check. They kept the completed 4473 for their records.

I'm pretty sure running a check on a trust transfer is a byproduct of the Brady Bill. Someone has the knowledge to enlighten us on pre-NICS trust NFA transfers, not that it matters anymore.

 

[IronMonster]

I was just told by Rainer Arms that you do have to fill out a 4473 when you pick up a NFA item but it is not submitted for a background check. The ATF has already done the background check and the 4473 is for the sellers records only.

Which solves my issue of being concerned about a delay

 

[Norm0931]

I was just told by Rainer Arms that you do have to fill out a 4473 when you pick up a NFA item but it is not submitted for a background check. The ATF has already done the background check and the 4473 is for the sellers records only.

Which solves my issue of being concerned about a delay

That's wrong if it's under a trust. Rainier better hope the ATF doesn't find out they are doing that.

 

[IronMonster]

I'm pretty sure they know what they are talking about, they are the largest NFA dealer in the Seattle area

 

[Norm0931]

I'm pretty sure they know what they are talking about, they are the largest NFA dealer in the Seattle area

Shrug, not my FFL. If I were you though I would ask them to do a background check. When the ATF audits them there is a good chance they are going to come knocking on doors when firearms left without a check.

 

[IronMonster]

Checked with Chip at Cascade Arsenal, he confirmed that no background check is done on NFA items at delivery as it has already been done by the ATF. You do fill out a 4473 but a second background check is not done at the time of pickup. Sounds like there is a box to check on the 4473 stating its for a NFA item For this reason

 

[IronMonster]

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

Yep, right there on page 2 of the 4473

No background check required because it's for NFA items

 

[Norm0931]

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

Yep, right there on page 2 of the 4473

No background check required because it's for NFA items

That's for an individual, not a trust. The trust isn't a person so no background check can be done by the ATF. If you sent in "Sam Smith NFA Trust" how would they know which Sam Smith to do a background check on? You don't send in figerprints, you don't get a CLEO sign off. The only other thing on the form is the address you used for the trust, which doesn't need to be your home address. Call the ATF if you want confirmation. I'm an FFL and deal in NFA items on a regular basis.

Here is an explanation for you:

ATF has interpreted the GCA exception in sections 922(t)(3)(B) and 478.102(d)(2) to mean that firearms transfers are exempt from a NICS check when they have been approved under the NFA to the person receiving the firearm. Unlike individuals, corporations, partnerships, and associations; unincorporated trusts do not fall within the definition of "person" in the GCA.

Because unincorporated trusts are not "persons" under the GCA, a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) cannot transfer firearms to them without complying with the GCA. Thus, when an FFL transfers an NFA firearm to a trustee or other person acting on behalf of a trust, the transfer is made to this person as an individual (i.e., not as a trust). As the trustee or other person acting on behalf of the trust is not the approved transferee under the NFA, 18 U.S.C. 5812, the trustee or other person acting on behalf of a trust must undergo a NICS check. The individual must also be a resident of the same State as the FFL when receiving the firearm.

When purchasing an NFA firearm, the person acting on behalf of the trust will complete the ATF Form 4473, items 1 through 10b with his or her personal information. Item 11a "Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?" should be answered "YES". The transferor will conduct the NICS check and complete Items 21a though 21c and Item 21d, if applicable. Item 22 will be left blank, as the transaction is not exempt from the NICS check.

But, it's your firearm, do whatever you want, just trying to help someone not get screwed.

 

[IronMonster]

Well, I dont know what to tell you. Two local respected NFA dealers are telling me one thing and some random guy I dont know is telling me something else on the internet.

No offense, but who would you believe?