Is The Threat To Our 2nd Amendment Real?

[Jonnyuma]

I would pose the question to the people cooling their heels in various county jails and blue state prisons for non violent "gun crimes" like crossing into NJ while CCing under your PA permit or trying to register an AR15 in CA.
They might have an opinion on whether or not the assault on our rights is real or hype.

 

[Koda]

I would pose the question to the people cooling their heels in various county jails and blue state prisons for non violent "gun crimes" like crossing into NJ while CCing under your PA permit or trying to register an AR15 in CA.
They might have an opinion on whether or not the assault on our rights is real or hype.

These have not gone unnoticed with me, and are a huge problem in the whole gun control debate. As someone who is a bit OCD on things ive tried my best to learn and follow and understand all gun laws and its frustrating. I "get" the idea that everything can be regulated, but its frustrating that we dont have equal rights across state lines if I travel.
Is the threat to the 2nd Amendment real? When something as simple as. "shall not be infringed" is being overlooked and landing law abiding citizens in jail it is.

 

[Ura-Ki]

And here comes my standard Rant, Why is SCOTUS being ignored by the States? They find a certain way and the States side step, ignore, sue, or just pretend the finding dosnt apply to them! It's the State level politicians that need their feet held to the fire and removed from power, and the citizens who come up with this crap, back it, promote it, they need to spend some time behind bars for a while!

 

[CamoDeafie]

And here comes my standard Rant, Why is SCOTUS being ignored by the States? They find a certain way and the States side step, ignore, sue, or just pretend the finding dosnt apply to them! It's the State level politicians that need their feet held to the fire and removed from power, and the citizens who come up with this crap, back it, promote it, they need to spend some time behind bars for a while!

Their excuse? A certain Amendment that says "powers not given to Federal, is reserved by the States and the People"

 

[Slobray]

And that's exactly how it's being done. So in essence, the premise of your first post is correct, the 2nd ammendment itself is safe at the national level, at least for now. The antis are smart enough to know that that is a bridge too far. So they got grassroots and started from the other end. They focused on cities and counties with high concentration of .gov-lovers and used the "safety" argument because they know those lemmings will support anything if it's "for the children". Then they leveraged that to the county and state level. It's quite clever, really.
So sure, the 2nd ammendment is still theoretically intact. You can still own guns...in certain jurisdictions...with the proper permits...that you purchased only after being scrutinized at a local, state, and federal level...but only certain kinds...that don't have any fashionably prohibited features...if they are stored in specific ways...and not loaded...or hold more than a few rounds...of approved ammunition...that you can only purchase from approved vendors...after another background check...and on...and on. See? You can still own guns. The 2nd isn't in any danger at all.

Ironically, many states have specific references to RKBA in their own constitutions that are even more specifically worded to empower citizenry and limit government. Yet most all these 2A restrictions happen at local and state levels.

If you'd like to see how each state spells it out...
State Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms Provisions

I take issue with one part of your post: saying the anti's are "grassroots"................

These Are The U.S. Billionaires Who Back Gun Control
Vote No Washington I-1639 | Articles
Gun Control Initiatives Are Funded by a Few Anti-Gun Billionaires
Levi Strauss Forms Gun-Control Group with Bloomberg, Pushes Employees to Donate
South Florida billionaire: I won't give any money to politicians who don't support gun control

As, they are not "grassroots" in any way shape or form.......
Other than that, you're spot on.



Ray

 

[DuneHopper]

While were not quite to the point of shooting tyrannical politicians YET, that day is going to come very soon! Sad, but that's exactly why our founding fathers included the 2nd with The specific 4 simple words, " SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" written in plane and simple English so that any one could read and understand it!

@Ura-Ki , i agree, however slightly different reason. The opposition during the design of the Second Amendment, was easy to see. In 1791 this directive to the Bill of Rights was established. Because there is one clear entity opposing us. Today we do not have a clear line of opposition. It often seems we are surrounded by, the media, schools, and many of our politicians. All of which we know will not be out and about trying to disarm us. But the firearms community, is very clear in fact even, know this website here is protected by Encrypted software, it is still simply software. I doubt very much that the powers that be do not have a back door built into the system for security issues such as terrorism etc. so all of the information discussions and everything else that we have here, as well as Facebook and others are readily available and accessible to our government if the need be. I think we are failing to understand even today, the vast amount of information that is on each and every one of us. Why this may sound like a tinfoil hat type discussion it's not. When I was doing investigative work back in the 80s, the amount of work that was needed to find material was difficult but it still existed. Today police need nothing more than a court order,and the keyboard to access the information they need. This is why software companies such as Apple have made encryption extremely difficult for government access. Most other companies including the software on this website have no guarantees of security, on our information if it was needed to be accessed. So that is where the difficulty is, if needed they know where the majority of people can be found. We already knew in Oregon, the OSP was indeed keeping records allot longer than they stated they were, and this was 10 years ago, I can only imagine now with the anti-gun movement about there's probably more information being retained and then we are aware of.

Hope everybody's getting ammo for Christmas

 

[DuneHopper]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2093272927652022

 

[po18guy]

As to SCOTUS, an unconstitutional law stands until and unless it is challenged. These people are Saul Alinsky radicals - all means to an end are permissible. Subversion at all levels. They gladly take two steps forward if they must only take one step back, as that is still progress toward their mythical utopian progressive government. And those dupes who help them rise to power? They are purged, since just as they helped those into power, they are now a threat to those in power.

We see this as close and as recently as Cuba. Fidel, Ché Guevara and Camilo Cienfuegos were the triumvirate of the Cuban revolution. But, once Cuban leader Fulgencio Batista was forced into exile, what happened? Cienfuegos was called from eastern Cuba to answer to Fidel for happenings there - and he, his plane and pilot have never been found. Very curious on a small island. Ché supposedly went off (or was sent) to foment revolution elsewhere and died in Bolivia. Fidel alone ruled after that, with brother Raul taking up the slack.

So it will be with the radical progressives, but they are so blinded by their ideology that they believe "it will be different this time."

Yes, there is both good and evil in this world, and neither ever changes.

 

[DuneHopper]

So it will be with the radical progressives, but they are so blinded by their ideology that they believe "it will be different this time."

Yes, there is both good and evil in this world, and neither ever changes.

Very true

 

[Koda]

And here comes my standard Rant, Why is SCOTUS being ignored by the States? They find a certain way and the States side step, ignore, sue, or just pretend the finding dosnt apply to them! It's the State level politicians that need their feet held to the fire and removed from power, and the citizens who come up with this crap, back it, promote it, they need to spend some time behind bars for a while!

Actually its the other way around, scotus has been ignoring the states cases. My theory is that, until recently, scotus was more liberal and thus didnt want to take on 2nd Amendment cases because they knew they would either have to support it or infringe on it.... Both of which would open a can of worms for them. It was far easier to ignore it, and further their antigun agenda by letting liberal states laws stand.

"Shall not be infringed" is pretty clear cut.....

 

[3MTA3]

Let me start by saying I'm very much a 2nd Amendment supporter and enjoy guns recreationally and for home defense. I do not believe in banning anything or limiting capacities, etc.

With that said, while I have grown up with guns as a part of my family and a common theme with others in the community, it's only been in the last 10 or 15 years I've really gotten into guns. One of the driving factors for a number of my purchases has been the threat to our 2nd Amendment and specific guns and features. For instance, I likely wouldn't own an AR-15 or as many standard capacity magazines as I do without continuously hearing about "the left" trying to take our guns. As I get older, I feel like this threat is always being pushed and we are always told about the restrictions looming just around the corner, even when, logically speaking, such legislation would likely not stand up to legal scrutiny if it did pass. There are certainly specific instances where we need to get out and vote to prevent regulation and there are plenty of opportunities to educate others to the truth about guns. However, the majority of the time, it feels like those screaming "The Anti's are coming!!" are just as out of touch as those that scream "All guns are evil!!". Maybe it's a case of the boy who cried wolf or Chicken Little insisting the sky is falling, but the rhetoric is losing it's effectiveness on me. All the hype starts to feel like strategic marketing to sell more guns and ammo than any actual threat to our rights. There are indeed legitimate issues to address (such as the recent Washington legislation) but I don't think it is to the degree and scope that is being portrayed nationally.

Am I alone in these feelings? How do others feel? Is it really as dire as it is presented to us? Since I've gotten more into guns, this feels like the same story repeated ad infinitum. Was it always like this?

I appreciate you taking the time to read this and look forward to having a good discussion. Hopefully I don't get ostracized for my thoughts. This seems like a thoughtful group that can discuss this civilly.

IMO you are getting boiled like a frog and so far in denial that you think that the warnings of others are over reactions to the water temp having risen from 72 degrees to 120 with no end in sight.

 

[EPS]

 

[EPS]

And if you don't think we have a corrupt Government.
then explain to me why they spend millions of dollars to get ELECTED to a job that pays around 157 thousand dollars a year.
And when they leave office they are worth millions or some are billions.

 

[Herb g]

And if you don't think we have a corrupt Government.
then explain to me why they spend millions of dollars to get ELECTED to a job that pays around 157 thousand dollars a year.
And when they leave office they are worth millions or some are billions.

Same thing, on smaller scale, in Salem. After you've made your connections during your "public service", you cash in with your new six-digit govt job, or even better as a lobbyist.

 

[DuneHopper]

Same thing, on smaller scale, in Salem. After you've made your connections during your "public service", you cash in with your new six-digit govt job, or even better as a lobbyist.

Good points, most all lobbyist in Oregon no matter what side, know there is no accountability, even though there are strict rules, they all break them. Of course anyone connected even on our side, knows how to get cash, and guns and ammo for nothing, its a racket even on our side.

 

[MxOverkill]

Let me start by saying I'm very much a 2nd Amendment supporter and enjoy guns recreationally and for home defense. I do not believe in banning anything or limiting capacities, etc.

For instance, I likely wouldn't own an AR-15 or as many standard capacity magazines as I do without continuously hearing about "the left" trying to take our guns. As I get older, I feel like this threat is always being pushed and we are always told about the restrictions looming just around the corner,

"Fear" is an effective salesman / fundraising strategy.

 

[scott_see]

Let me start by saying I'm very much a 2nd Amendment supporter and enjoy guns recreationally and for home defense. I do not believe in banning anything or limiting capacities, etc.

I'm not worried about my 2A rights. They can pass all the laws they want. I've got enough of an arsenal that it'd be hard to infringe on me. Besides, my local sheriff won't enforce unconstitutional laws. He's said that outright.

 

[Herb g]

Sheriffs are elected by voters. What happens when the D's from CA take over your county like they did mine?

 

[pdx210]

You have a number of points if I may let me respond to them each.

As I get older, I feel like this threat is always being pushed and we are always told about the restrictions looming just around the corner, even when, logically speaking, such legislation would likely not stand up to legal scrutiny if it did pass.

There is certainly lots of fear-mongering on both sides.

As for legal scrutiny -The Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 was passed by the District of Columbia's city council on September 24, 1976. The law banned residents from owning Handguns or high-capacity semi-automatic rifles, as well as prohibited possession of unregistered firearms. Exceptions to the ban were allowed for police officers and guns registered before 1976. This city regulation stood for 33 years and people were fined, arrested and jailed trying to exercise a constitutional right forbidden by a city ordinance and not by Congress amendment or supreme court clarification. In those 33 years, the supreme court decided to not hear a challenge to the DC ban a number of times until 2007. Today there have been several cases from states like California challenging the legality of "assault weapons ban" and magazine restrictions brought to the supreme court. Again, the court has chosen to not hear these cases at this time in effect allowing a partial ban and encroachment of a constitutional right.

However, the majority of the time, it feels like those screaming "The Anti's are coming!!" are just as out of touch as those that scream "All guns are evil!!". Maybe it's a case of the boy who cried wolf or Chicken Little insisting the sky is falling, but the rhetoric is losing it's effectiveness on me. All the hype starts to feel like strategic marketing to sell more guns and ammo than any actual threat to our rights. There are indeed legitimate issues to address (such as the recent Washington legislation) but I don't think it is to the degree and scope that is being portrayed nationally.

There are absolutely extreme's on both sides of the issue and I think most people are in the middle. Assault weapons are a great example of knee-jerk political action. One need only study statistics to see handguns are used to kill 30X the number all rifles including Assult weapons. In reality, the agenda isn't about safety as much as gun control and a black gun with a pistol grip sell this better than a revolver. All firearms sold in Oregon must now go through a gun transfer if you sell it not just to a stranger or friend but family members like a son or daughter. You are required to report lost or stolen guns while most can make sense of this it is also gun registration and history tells us registration is the first step to confiscation.

These people were orderd to turn in their guns.
Honolulu Backs Off Order for Medical Marijuana Users to Turn in Guns
Police Begin Seizing Guns of Civilians

Am I alone in these feelings? How do others feel? Is it really as dire as it is presented to us? Since I've gotten more into guns, this feels like the same story repeated ad infinitum. Was it always like this? I appreciate you taking the time to read this and look forward to having a good discussion. Hopefully, I don't get ostracized for my thoughts. This seems like a thoughtful group that can discuss this civilly.

I'm all in favor of reasonable ways to reduce crimes with guns but you'll notice the emphasis is on the gun and not the crime. Florida shooter Nicholas Cruze is a poster child for this chronic unaddressed systemic failures of law enforcement and the mental health system to keep guns out of his hands. the resulting backlash .. If we just pass laws among other to limit guns to 10 rounds while glossing of the fact that that Cruz used 10 round AR mags as a fix? Thats just socal jelking.

 

[eklarsen]

I'm not worried about my 2A rights. They can pass all the laws they want. I've got enough of an arsenal that it'd be hard to infringe on me. Besides, my local sheriff won't enforce unconstitutional laws. He's said that outright.

That may make you feel good however try to purchase an AR after July without the class and all the other BS... you wont be able to and that my friend is the point. They dont care about you and your current guns, they just want to make sure its as hard as possible going forward.