Is the new wave of gun owners making it an Elite Sport? Red Dots are my concern

[titsonritz]

Moral of this story is who really give a frack what other people do , say , think or imply, wether it's uphill or down. If you like cheap stuff good for you , if you like expensive good for you. It just doesn't matter.

Until your stuff breaks when you really need it.

 

[Tomahawk67]

Until your stuff breaks when you really need it.

That's why I spend my money on stuff I know works. Do I care what other people do? Not at all. This discussion was about other people's opinions on somebody else's gear. Opinions don't matter.

 

[mrblond]

Look, no matter what the hobby is you will always the new guy with a ton of cash coming in and buying the " best " there is. You all have seen them. Someone you have never seen at the competition with the $10,000 custom piece, wearing the shirt with all sorts of patches but cant shoot worth a bubblegum? They spent all they money so they can look down on the poor folk and think they are better regardless on if they can shoot or not.

 

[NWMA]

How about letting our shooting speak for itself and stop caring so much about what others think?

And maybe not so much caring/judging what others use? I see a lot of "Don't judge me and my choices!"....followed immediately by judgement of every one ELSE'S choices.

Lots of drama and angst in this thread, IMHO.

 

[Mygrainman]

Shooting sports have always been influenced by the elitists. Especially Trap shooting... in the early 1800's before they had clays, they rounded up carrier pigeons by the hundreds for the rich folks to shoot down. Its rediculous what folks will spend on a shotgun...
I pulled for a trap contest on my cousin's pheasant ranch nearly 20 years ago, and most of the shooters showed up in Ducks Unlimited edition pickups with custom outfitted tuck beds and were shooting $10,000 custom engraved over/unders. A couple of them even brought along thier prized AKC certified bird dogs for no other reason but to show how invested they were. The shooting contest was obviously secondary to the pissing contest between them of who's got the better gear, dog or truck. Beretta vs. Perazzi, Win. AA Vs. Rem. Nitro, Brittany vs. Short hair... Unfortunately for the pullers, they also seemed to be competing at who could be the worst tipper.

 

[Diamondback]

Some people just have more dollars than sense. When I have to deal with such people professionally, my rate structure is usually adjusted to correct the situation by separating them from as much of the former as I ethically can until balance is restored. (Clients who make working with them pleasant get my best rates regardless of budget, but be an a** and expect to pay through the a** and every other orifice too.)

 

[crstrode]

Look, no matter what the hobby is you will always the new guy with a ton of cash coming in and buying the " best " there is. You all have seen them. Someone you have never seen at the competition with the $10,000 custom piece, wearing the shirt with all sorts of patches but cant shoot worth a bubblegum? They spent all they money so they can look down on the poor folk and think they are better regardless on if they can shoot or not.

In the early 80's I decided to give IPSC competition a try. I had just bought an inexpensive GI style Auto Ordnance 1911 and wanted an excuse to shoot it a lot. After a short time I was finishing matches in the upper half of the competitors, and out-shooting a lot of folks with race guns that cost 10 times what mine did. I even carried the extra mags in my pants pockets, and used the same belt I wore to the office daily. I had just as much fun as the guys with lots of $$$ invested and had lots of money left over. Still have that gun, and it works great after 30 years and thousands of rounds downrange.

 

[Camelfilter]

Didn't read the entire thread, apologies! Great information, and interesting thought processes as well, from what I have read.

I'm sure it has been brought up: Iron sights and fundamentals first. Period, hard stop.

As a "newbie" getting into firearms as an an adult, after well on too long, but hopefully didn't wait too long...

I'll say it again. Iron sights and fundamentals first.

Else, you have to learn with the gadgets, then start all over again without them. It's way too easy to skip on the learning without the gadgets, and base your experience (time and training) solely on the gadgets.

Do I ever realistically see myself having to use a carbine/rifle in defense of my, or my loved ones life? Nope.

But...there is the possibility. If so, do I want to rely solely on some electronic or glass gadget which might malfunction or break should that circumstance occur? Nope.

All of our weapons which could, most realistically anyways, serve in a defensive role have iron backups. Or a second replicate weapon solely in irons. The irons are used regularly, as well as the optics.

 

[SoberPoster]

Read a "Cops" article online advocating Red-Dot sights, BUT in my experience shooting one, 2nd shots are problematic: just can't find that dot after recoil.... Crimson-Trace Laser-Grips work much better and fit without milling the slide!
Moved that Red-Dot to my long gun. LOL

 

[NWMA]

So...how do you find your sights on the 2nd shot?

A properly set up red dot pistol will have front and rear sights cowitnessed with the dot. As you present, your eyes naturally work on acquiring the sights...with a dot it's no different, but in that split second while looking for the sights, your eyes will pick up the dot and then the sights can be ignored.

If the gun is set up right, finding the dot is no more difficult than finding the sights. It does take some practice but once you have it there's not much to it.

Of course if the gun doesn't have a rear sight it's a lot more challenging. But a substandard set up shouldn't be used as a basis for judging the concept.

 

[FireArm]

Being a Pro firearms type person as I am, I started with what I could afford. And when I was young and first started owning firearms. I bought a P89 special edition for my first go to handgun. Worked great, cost $380 new at sportsmans warehouse back in 03.( I now prefer Sig firearms)
after that I would buy anything if I had some spare money. I mean anything I bought everything from a $40 new RG .22lr revolvers up to a S&W 686-7 combat revolver I still own
. I went in to the gunroom around that time frame and they tried to sell me a $1500 colt python from 1974 like new in the box (which I should have bought) but at the time laughed as I walked out of the store. My logic was I could go get at least three real nice pistols for that price, and I could have. The colt is probably worth close to $3k now. Those $500 pistols would probably have gone slightly down in value especially because I will shoot the crap out of $500 pistol but for some reason cant bring my self to shoot a safe queen colt(I dont own any safe queens.... I shoot too much to whore up a safe queen).
I my self came to understand what the guys at the gunroom were tring to teach me, and I am not a follower so I dont hold on to peoples opinions like they are gospel. It took me years of owning firearms and buying and selling. a low figure is over 300 firearms that I have owned in my years of enjoying firearms.
Quality over quantity (NOW), own a nice pistol, shotgun, & rifle (hunting)
, get a nice optic, torch, safe, extra mags, ammo. Learn to use those three weapons to the fullest extent of your interest. After owning a pistol, shotgun and rifle. Move on to more when finances allow, but cover the basics. price point is something to keep in mind but shouldnt deter someone from owning something that could potentially keep your family safe from danger.
My two confusing cents. . .

 

[SoberPoster]

So...how do you find your sights on the 2nd shot?

A properly set up red dot pistol will have front and rear sights cowitnessed with the dot. As you present, your eyes naturally work on acquiring the sights...with a dot it's no different, but in that split second while looking for the sights, your eyes will pick up the dot and then the sights can be ignored.

If the gun is set up right, finding the dot is no more difficult than finding the sights. It does take some practice but once you have it there's not much to it.

Of course if the gun doesn't have a rear sight it's a lot more challenging. But a substandard set up shouldn't be used as a basis for judging the concept.

My FastFire-2 is too tall for co-witnessing suppressor-sights to work, too narrow view to easily find the red-dot....Crimson-Trace Laser-Grips are much faster on all shots, quicker to turn on and install easier.

I agree with razormanxx, shot placement is everything. The CT Laser-grip is activated by your grip hand's ring finger (middle of the 3 gripping fingers) so I always leave it on (in active until I grip the gun). With my age and eyes just seeing the sights is an issue, but within 100 feet the laser is easy to see and accurate!

 

[NWMA]

My FastFire-2 is too tall for co-witnessing suppressor-sights to work, too narrow view to easily find the red-dot....Crimson-Trace Laser-Grips are much faster on all shots, quicker to turn on and install easier.

So it's a substandard set up from a red dot perspective.

Red dots vs lasers are not a great comparison. They are different tools which shine in different circumstances.

For close-in, reactive encounters, lasers are obviously useful (though I've consistently found in both live fire and force on force Classes that point shooting is faster still than a laser). Lasers have their place, but they do not help in areas where a red dot will.

There's a learning curve with any tool, red dots are no exception. But again, a proper set up is necessary. If it's not set up properly...it's like buying a car with three wheels and saying that cars aren't useful.

 

[titsonritz]

So...how do you find your sights on the 2nd shot?

A properly set up red dot pistol will have front and rear sights cowitnessed with the dot. As you present, your eyes naturally work on acquiring the sights...with a dot it's no different, but in that split second while looking for the sights, your eyes will pick up the dot and then the sights can be ignored.

If the gun is set up right, finding the dot is no more difficult than finding the sights. It does take some practice but once you have it there's not much to it.

Of course if the gun doesn't have a rear sight it's a lot more challenging. But a substandard set up shouldn't be used as a basis for judging the concept.

So it's a substandard set up from a red dot perspective.

Red dots vs lasers are not a great comparison. They are different tools which shine in different circumstances.

For close-in, reactive encounters, lasers are obviously useful (though I've consistently found in both live fire and force on force Classes that point shooting is faster still than a laser). Lasers have their place, but they do not help in areas where a red dot will.

There's a learning curve with any tool, red dots are no exception. But again, a proper set up is necessary. If it's not set up properly...it's like buying a car with three wheels and saying that cars aren't useful.

You're just an elitist and I'm overly concerned with how you spend your money.