Is power grid failure coming?

[ma96782]

This is NOT a "How to".

Bringing down the Elec Grid.
What happened?

Aloha, Mark

PS....then, this one was NOT the result of gunfire.

 

[P7M13]

solar setup for the super long term. anyone got tips?

Don't - you'll never recoup the cost.

 

[whiskeybill]

The only attacks on the power grid that are real is the deliberate elimination of coal fired, natural gas and hydro-electric generating facilities. That is all propagated by the "Green" movement. As far as the unreliability of solar and wind power generation, that is a given. The so called "investments" that our government is making in the green sector are just ways for our money to be funneled to the rich and powerful. Wealthy investors get on board with green energy projects because they know that they will get a slice of the pie when it comes to government grants / loans / handouts. So what if the company goes bankrupt, it's wasted government money, not theirs. Russia isn't the only country with "Oligarchs". Ford Motor Company was just given (not loaned) around a billion dollars by the Department of Energy (not by Congress, and not by a vote) to build EV battery plants. Lee Iacocca didn't ask for that much in loans to save Chrysler (and Chrysler paid back every penny). Tax paying citizens get stuck holding the bag.

 

[crstrode]

Of course it is.
Absent proper maintenance; everything fails.

 

[arakboss]

AI could prove energy hog that uses more electricity per year than some small countries: study

The growth of artificial intelligence could put a strain on energy resources around the world with AI tech depending on powerful servers that hog electricity.

www.foxnews.com

 

[arakboss]

"Is power grid failure coming?"


Looks like it already arrived for Cuba.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/19/americas/cuba-second-nationwide-blackout-intl/index.html

 

[Mikej]

"Is power grid failure coming?"


Looks like it already arrived for Cuba.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/19/americas/cuba-second-nationwide-blackout-intl/index.html

They're "Socialist" right? "National Power Company"? Go figure. But Geezus, the place looks like a hell hole you wouldn't want to look at during the day light. Should send kamela and brandon down there to live for a year or so.

 

[pdx210]

Our biggest issue is mismanagement and legislation by politicians who don't understand how the grid works.

In the NW we have a base load of around 5,000 MW, call that the floor less than that no grid and at times of the day, it increases to a peak of 7,000 MW. Every year, we need to increase that by 3-5% as new homes plug in their fridge & freezer, plug in your electric car every year we need 3-5% more power. We need the elasticity to provide a minimum 5,000 MW and the ability to ramp up to 7,000 MW as demand dictates

Wind and solar are inconsistent; You get them when you get them, not when you need them. Lage scale backup and storage have yet to be worked out. It's irrelevant how much wind and solar capacity is built at time it will be zero.
Here, the BPA reap-time wind solar generation all the wind farms in the gorge it swings wildly from 2,000MW to zero...
https://transmission.bpa.gov/business/operations/wind/twndbspt.aspx


Make sense what I'm saying so far ?

In California, and here they put the emphasis on wind and solar farms "green energy" even pulling out some gas turbines. Instead of investing on systems that can generate on demand they invested in wind and solar.

In California they have run out of energy at peak times and have been unable to supply new construction with power because they put green mandates ahead of the 3-5% stable power generation. We have over invested in system that can't reliably power the grid as we get closer to capacity black outs

 

[msgriff]

Our biggest issue is mismanagement and legislation by politicians who don't understand how the grid works.

In the NW we have a base load of around 5,000 MW, call that the floor less than that no grid and at times of the day, it increases to a peak of 7,000 MW. Every year, we need to increase that by 3-5% as new homes plug in their fridge & freezer, plug in your electric car every year we need 3-5% more power. We need the elasticity to provide a minimum 5,000 MW and the ability to ramp up to 7,000 MW as demand dictates

Wind and solar are inconsistent; You get them when you get them, not when you need them. Lage scale backup and storage have yet to be worked out. It's irrelevant how much wind and solar capacity is built at time it will be zero.
Here, the BPA reap-time wind solar generation all the wind farms in the gorge it swings wildly from 2,000MW to zero...
https://transmission.bpa.gov/business/operations/wind/twndbspt.aspx


Make sense what I'm saying so far ?

In California, and here they put the emphasis on wind and solar farms "green energy" even pulling out some gas turbines. Instead of investing on systems that can generate on demand they invested in wind and solar.

In California they have run out of energy at peak times and have been unable to supply new construction with power because they put green mandates ahead of the 3-5% stable power generation. We have over invested in system that can't reliably power the grid as we get closer to capacity black outs

I wish that there was more attention paid to pumped storage hydropower. It would seem to be an answer to some of the shortfalls of wind and solar.

 

[The Heretic]

If we get into a tussle with the CCP in the S. "China Sea", I would expect sabotage of our "grid" (not just electrical, but other unprotected utilities too).

I would not be surprised that some percentage of the illegal Chinese crossing our borders (at least 24K were caught) are sabotage cells/etc.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

If we get into a tussle with the CCP in the S. "China Sea", I would expect sabotage of our "grid" (not just electrical, but other unprotected utilities too).

I would not be surprised that some percentage of the illegal Chinese crossing our borders (at least 24K were caught) are sabotage cells/etc.

I would expect that to occur just prior to China makin' a move on Taiwan.

 

[pdx210]

I wish that there was more attention paid to pumped storage hydropower. It would seem to be an answer to some of the shortfalls of wind and solar.

The problem is the basic laws of thermal dynamics and entropy. Anytime energy changes its state, there is a substantial loss of energy to entropy, usually expressed as heat. The more steps, the more loss.

Most internal combustion engines are around 50% efficient, and electric motors are 80% efficient. So half the fuel/ energy put in your truck is lost to entropy, which is why it has a large radiator. While an electric motor, entropy is around 20% loss.

To pump & store water or on sunny days with lots of wind-solar to fill the reservoir to generate electricity demand,
20% of the input pump energy will be lost to entropy. To generate the electricity takes another 20% entropy.

Not accounting for line loss and say that power is used to charge an electric car's battery theres 10-15% entropy when you charge a battery and to run the electric motor in the car, another 20% loss. In terms of an electric car around 75% of the total electricity doesn't make it to the cars rear wheels.


The fewer steps or changes your energy takes to get end use the more efficient it is, wind and solar work great for homes but as of yet it s not scalable to the grid

 

[chilidawg32]

Who else is waiting for the power grid to have a cascade failure? This heat is stressing the grid, A/C use is likely the culprit. If the grid fails in the west and southwest it will be bad for all of us.

I'm just as worried wondering when and if another Carrington event size solar fare goes down, what happens to the power grid after that.

 

[wired]

I definitely suspect as we see more strain placed on the grid from policies limiting access to fossil fuels. I don't think it's going to happen overnight but as we shut down coal burning power plants, without building replacements, while adding stress on the grid via electric vehicles, electric heating, electric cooktops, etc. and expect it to be powered solely off solar and wind - I think problems will begin to arise. I could be wrong because my knowledge of the electrical grid is limited but it doesn't take a PhD to understand that if you limit something while increasing demand it's going to cause a shortage.

What policies limit access to fossil fuels. Wer'e the largest producer of fossil fuels in the world.

 

[pdx210]

What policies limit access to fossil fuels. Wer'e the largest producer of fossil fuels in the world.

Mostly state driven C02 reduction mandates and green energy initiates

 

[monkeybutler]

Mostly state driven C02 reduction mandates and green energy initiates

That does not limit production. Less gas use means more surplus/reserves. Peenut butter and chocolate.

If I were Trump I would be going nuts on building up every kind of energy domestically. Then we don't have to be pals with Saudi and other assorted dirtbags so much. Plus the obvious economic advantages.

 

[wired]

Mostly state driven C02 reduction mandates and green energy initiates

Doesn't seem to be working. We're still the largest fossil fuel producer. States that sponsor green energy policies aren't states that produce significant fossil fuels. Vermont, a state with no oil reserves recently banned fracking. That'll show'em.

 

[Jay Walk]

I hear Tesla is having a "fire sale".

 

[arakboss]

We are being asked to conserve electricity and spend money on energy efficient this and that. At the same time these data centers are exploding in volume and energy demands. What gives?

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/23/data-centers-powering-ai-could-use-more-electricity-than-entire-cities.html

 

[wired]

We are being asked to conserve electricity and spend money on energy efficient this and that. At the same time these data centers are exploding in volume and energy demands. What gives?

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/23/data-centers-powering-ai-could-use-more-electricity-than-entire-cities.html

They make money and dont have the same price regulation residential customers have.