If you have documented/modified standard capacity magazines- how?

[Member 53328]

WHAT?

You know….. that whole open border thing.

 

[Xaevian]

You know….. that whole open border thing.

Not as much impact if it has to be explained, lol.

 

[monkeybutler]

 

[sobo]

Not as much impact if it has to be explained, lol.

Agreed. So much of my talent has been wasted on the proles...

 

[Xmark1]

Exif - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Most digital cameras - but the data can be edited/faked, although most people don't know the data is even there.
Also, the feature can be turned off in many cams today, and some photo editing software will just remove the data (or not copy it to a new file).

First. Most people don't know the data is there. That is the reason for my heads up.

Second, yes, it is alleged some of the metadata may be turned off if you are engineering savvy.

Third. Without the documented source code and the ability to reverse engineer it. Worse yet is compiled code in memory with no source code available. How are you sure the metadata is being removed or worse, altered?
Manufactures are notorious for providing back doors to government agencies, using not only software but firmware. And firmware is proprietary and cannot be reverse engineered without access to billion-dollar machinery.

 

[Jay Walk]

I'm thinking of getting a signed affidavit from a notary public after I mark my mags with an electric engraver with my initials, date, and numbering. Props to the member here (I forget) who mentioned the Harbor Freight engraver.

I would think that would be more than sufficient in a court of law.

That would prove that

You claimed to have some magazines on that notary date, which means nothing,
Maybe also claim also that you will never use an engrave ever again?

 

[The Heretic]

First. Most people don't know the data is there. That is the reason for my heads up.

Second, yes, it is alleged some of the metadata may be turned off if you are engineering savvy.

Third. Without the documented source code and the ability to reverse engineer it. Worse yet is compiled code in memory with no source code available. How are you sure the metadata is being removed?
Manufactures are notorious for providing back doors to government agencies, using not only software but firmware.

Because, like you, I am a software engineer - retired, but one nonetheless. One of my gigs was writing software for prepress, and as such I became familiar with most publishing software and associated utilities, including image processing software and data formats.

It isn't too hard to verify that the EXIF data has been removed - it isn't a secret format.

 

[EHJ]

114 says I can have whatever I already have - and can use on private property...

Bad Guy breaking in my home - can still get got with an entire mag - whatever it is....

So be it.

 

[Xmark1]

Because, like you, I am a software engineer - retired, but one nonetheless. One of my gigs was writing software for prepress, and as such I became familiar with most publishing software and associated utilities, including image processing software and data formats.

It isn't too hard to verify that the EXIF data has been removed - it isn't a secret format.

I respect your education, and experience.

However, the software, firmware, and hardware permutations can explode into a Googolplex (a very big number) of possibilities. If I can speculate alternate scenarios then I can Improvise, adapt, and overcome just about any roadblocks and by using deception, create alternate outcomes. Just look at recently released info about Twitter. Sometimes, as you know, code has millions of lines and countless subroutines, plenty of room to copy, hide, and then replace/alter data when someone so desires.

IMHO

 

[ilikegunspdx]

FYI I found a couple possible options on internet for those looking for documentation techniques. One is using a gps device in the photo that gets it's time from gps satellites, not set manually.

I noticed this app which seems to be tailor made to photo document for proof. I have not looked into it beyond finding this website:

GPS Field Camera: Stamp photos for proof - Solocator App

Solocator - GPS Field Camera app for iPhone & Android stamps photos with location, date, time, direction, notes for photo documentation.

solocator.com

I also heard that some car dash cams have an encryption that prevents changing the date. So some type of dash cam, app? that is used for legal proof might work.

Just throwing out a couple things I noticed.

Only truly bulletproof/can't be faked thing I can think of is print the photos onto a big piece of paper with white space on the bottom and a notary can notarize that page with the date. Don't see how anyone could claim that is faked, especially if you have other evidence such as the photo emailed to yourself.

 

[Tlock]

Or just don't worry about it.....

 

[GrayGoose]

Or just don't worry about it.....

Don't worry about what?

 

[hongkong2]

I have this on my phone, works great https://theodolite.app/

 

[Tlock]

Don't worry about what?

Exactly!

 

[Sweep1308]

So, by default, the burden of proof is on the accuser. Thus, "PROVING" your magazines were lawfully posessed prior to 114 is ridiculous. The text of this bill cannot contradict the bill of rights, and stand up in court. Quit complying with these fascists.

 

[GWS]

Ok, People are saying to Document that you have had Pistols and Mags that hold more then 10 rounds before 114. So you will have proof and won't get arrested when 114 becomes Law. Well if you can not buy anything that holds more than 10 rounds it would have to be Pre 114. All States are suppose to follow Oregon law so no sale there. How can they hold you to anything if you can't buy it after 114 becomes Law.

This crap happened in California and again in Washington and the results are the same It is unenforceable. Period. The state has to prove you acquired the magazines after the deadline and, unless you are a complete idiot, that won't happen. How would a complete idiot get busted? DUI, felon in possession Getting pulled over with a bunch of new in wrapper magazines exposed on your backseat with the post 12/22 receipt from Idaho Hicap Magazine Emporium laying on top of the pile. I've never seen nor heard of law-enforcement mag sweeps at public ranges or on public land here or back in the PRK Plus we all have the strong possibility of all of our mag bans getting tossed out soon with Judge Benitez deciding Duncan v. Bonta that new hearing starts 12/12/2022

 

[Jay Walk]

Truth ^^^

 

[NoThankYou]

So, by default, the burden of proof is on the accuser. Thus, "PROVING" your magazines were lawfully posessed prior to 114 is ridiculous. The text of this bill cannot contradict the bill of rights, and stand up in court. Quit complying with these fascists.

Folks are misunderstanding how the law works.

The burden of proof is on the accuser in this case: prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are in possession of magazines whose capacity exceeds the law (>10 rounds). This law doesn't change that.

This law ALSO carves out an exception for people who bought these magazines before the declared date. So if you are arrested for possession of magazines of over 10 rounds, you need to mount an "affirmative defense" showing how you are an exception to this law.

"Affirmative defense" is NOT unconstitutional and is all over American law.

Self defense is also an affirmative defense example. Killing someone is against the law. But the law carves out exceptions like self-defense. So if the prosecutor can show beyond a reasonable doubt that you shot someone, YOU must mount the affirmative defense of showing that it was self-defense (by predominance of evidence standard, which is more likely than not).

There are some interesting arguments about 114 on constitutional grounds, but not "affirmative defense." Tried and tested.

 

[NoThankYou]

This crap happened in California and again in Washington and the results are the same It is unenforceable. Period. The state has to prove you acquired the magazines after the deadline and, unless you are a complete idiot, that won't happen.

The state has to prove you are in possession of the magazines. You need to prove you acquired them before deadline. On the upside, you only need to prove by Preponderance of Evidence standard, which just means "more likely than not," so it's not a high burden. Receipts aren't definitive proof that its for the magazines you were caught with, but it would likely meet PoE standard to a jury. Digital photos with time stamp, sealed mailed envelopes of photos, or notarized photos? Can't imagine how it couldn't work. This is not "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard, just preponderance of evidence.

How would a complete idiot get busted?

How about any self-defense shooting?

 

[sobo]

Compliance with unconstitutional "laws" does nothing but breed more unconstitutional infringements. Phuq 'em! Phuq 'em all!

To passively comply (through one's fear of prosecution) is precisely what your local tyrants (all tyrants, for that matter) want. It's way cheaper for them that way, and it requires no effort on their part. However, passive resistance costs a citizen nothing, and makes the tyrants pay to prove their contention. The tyrants have no mechanism of enforcement that doesn't violate the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution. Lacking active enforcement mechanisms, the "law" falls flat on its face. Phuq 'em! Phuq all tyrants!

We have the same stoopit shiit up here, ever since WA passed its unconstitutional mag ban months before y'all did. I bought a gross of standard-capacity mags before the effective date of the ban, just because I wanted to have them on hand since I'm not ready to depart the DPRW just yet (have not located/purchased my redoubt property in Idaho yet, although I'm getting closer - and the search is narrowing). But I couldn't care less about marking, date-stamping, photographing receipts with mags, and all the other bullshiit schemes that others are clutching their pearl necklaces over. Phuq all tyrants! Phuq 'em all!

It will take a few years for the NYSRPA v. Bruen decision to work its magic on the cases brought in lower courts and for those infringements to be expunged from the books, so be patient. In the meantime, I intend to buy whateverthephuq I want, wherever I want to buy it, and I'm not going to lift a phuq'n finger to assist the tyrants.

I would absolutely love to be a petitioner in a case against the WA mag ban. The FPC was looking for petition volunteers when the mag ban first went into effect, but the first requirement was to have a case pending in court in order to be represented by the FPC. Now, that's never gonna happen in my county, cuz almost the entire east side of WA (aka Liberty State) is effectively a 2A sanctuary state (15 of 20 county sheriffs publicly declared so in the wake of I-1639 passing, and those counties now have 2A sanctuary resolutions on the books), but I'm still willing to be that guy...

Incidentally, the traitorous counties of EWA are Asotin, Chelan, Douglas, Walla Walla, and Whitman counties. There is a state university, community college, or private college in three of those five counties, so y'all know what turned things to the Dark Side in those places...