I got a speeding ticket!

[NCW_Robert]

I wanted to post my experience and I am interested in hearing any advice you may have.

So on April 2020 I was driving to work (hospital employee). I was on 26 East bound at approximately 9:40PM going to downtown Portland from Beaverton. I was on the far right lane and going about 55 MPH (that is the posted speed limit). As I am passing the zoo exit, I see a dark SUV on the West side on ramp. Immediately I figured it was an unmarked unit.

I use waze GPS and a Valentine 1 radar/laser detector. I drive safe and within the speed limit, the detector is just to let me know if any speed traps are near me. Do I go two or three miles over the limit sometimes? yes, but I do not drive crazy. When I am on the back roads, sometimes I do drive a bit spiritedly.... come on now, I drive a manual Mustang lol, but I digress. Oh btw I haven't had a ticket in like eleven years....

So I see what appeared to be an unmarked unit around the zoo exit, I was not concerned much as I was driving within the speed limit. And I should mention that I did not receive any laser warnings, and I will get to that in a bit.

So after the zoo exit, speed limit falls to 50 MPH. As I approach the 50 MPH zone, I take my foot off the gas and just coast (while in gear) and my speed drops down from 55. I was probably not going 50, maybe 52 or 53. Of course I still had to slow down a bit here and there before the tunnel because while in gear and coasting, I could gain speed. So, I go through the tunnel, stay to the left as if I was gonna get on I-5. I then take my first exit to the right to get back into downtown.

I get off the highway and once I cleared the off ramp, I see one head light behind me. I had a feeling it was a police bike, but I had nothing to worry about so I was like.... meh. Next thing I know, bright strobe lights go off and I am getting pulled over.

I pull over and discover that it was a Portland Police bike.... great! ugh.... So the officer came up to my window and asked for my license and nothing else. I told him I was carrying legally, he asked where the gun was and I told him and he was fine with the whole thing.

It took him a few minutes and I knew he was gonna give me a ticket. So he came back and told me I was doing 75 in a 50 and gave me a $270 ticket. I was shocked! I asked him a few questions and discovered I was lasered. He said he lasered me but I think the dark SUV facing West on 26 on ramp was the one that tagged me, but I did not get a laser warning from my Valentine 1 when I passed the dark SUV.

There is no way I was going 75. If I was going 75, I would have been hauling butt and traffic was very light. Was my speed between 50 and 55? yes, probably, but I swear on my grandmother and uncle's graves that I was not going 75 MPH.

So the court is extending everything out 90 days, when my plea date comes up, I will plea not guilty! and they will set a trial date for me.

I plan on filing motion for discovery so I can obtain as much information as to what happened. I feel like something dishonest has taken place. I feel like the odds are against me however. My word against a sworn peace officer with speed detecting equipment. Also a second officer was involved so two vs. one.

If they do not provide me with requested information, I think I may be able to file for dismissal but I am not sure. If the officer does not show up, I know the ticket will get dropped.

Anyone with good advice?
Any retired or active LEOs that can comment on what I can do?

I stated that I was running waze GPS earlier, so I downloaded my location files, I did not see a log of my speed, just places I have been etc. I thought about going to the dealership to extract information out of my car's "black box" but I was not in an accident and I don't know what information was stored for how long etc.

Thanks folks.

I think you laid this out pretty well in your post here. Tell it to the judge just like you laid it out here and hope for the best. And, as others have said get you a dash cam. I suggest one that does front and rear and has the GPS option so you can record your speed, and then, switch on the record your speed option.

Next time you will be better prepared. Being prepared is pretty much key to a lot of things in life. It dictates how successful you will be in many situations. With all the BS going on, a person can run into you and then claim you ran into them, that is why I got a front/rear dash cam with GPS/speed option.

My problem GPS speed records would more likely be used against me, as, in the appropriate open sections of highway, I do drive FAST.

Most tickets I ever got and I have been issued my fair share over the years, I been given quite a few breaks and had the cops ticket me for lower speeds then I was actually clocked at. So I guess I am on the plus side of things for tickets.

~

 

[John Gault]

Best luck. I know it happens where they clock the wrong vehicle. I didn't fight mine but gave the officer my mind when the ticket was issued.
Now I drive a jeep and mostly worry about getting pulled over for swerving in the breeze and 75mph is almost impossible..

I did pass a brand new Dodge race car, updated version of older model, couple weeks ago and wondered why anyone would buy a hemi engine and idle on the freeway......

 

[biggie24420]

Does your car have Nav or was the car sync'd to andriod auto? If yes then there is a record of where your car was and how fast you were going. New cars track you unless you disable it.

No doesn't have navigation. I use my cellphone for GPS and navigation.

 

[biggie24420]

Is your radar detector visible? There are cops that completely freak when they pull you over and see a laser/radar detector.

No it is tucked up near the driver's side visor. Plus my car sits low so he would have had to bemd over and look up.

 

[biggie24420]

I'm a former LE who very rarely wrote traffic citations. My focus at night was DUI, so I may use any legal PC to make the stop, but if you were not drinking you would more than likely drive off ticket free assuming you had a decent attitude. However, radar detectors would likely cause me to write you a real ticket rather than a warning ticket. And of course, there are those guys that can talk their way from a warning ticket over a burnt out bulb into trip to jail.

In my opinion, motors are where old lazy cops go to pad their retirement while avoiding serious police work.

Thank you for your service. Ummm unless the officer had a radar detector, detector, IDK how he would know. He never bent over to look nor did he ever walk in front of my car.

 

[FireArm]

dash cam is in my cars future. i could have recently seriously helped in a murder case if I had dash cam footage of what I saw. I feel they are the future, and can help lower insurance costs.

 

[biggie24420]

I use the Yav1 app with my valentine1 and I just pulled some data. Looks like I was lasered and radared several times between 9:30PM to 9:50PM. But the laser occurred in Beaverton and radar was in the Portland area. The laser hits were probably cars.
Ugh... frustrating.

 

[AirWolf]

I've said it before: German highways are smaller and more congested than ours, yet 70% of their highway has NO speed limit. There's no reason why we can't do the same. Freie Fahrt für Freie Bürger!

I doubt anyone here would want the level of scrutiny, penalty, upkeep and equipment costs that go along with getting and maintaining a license to drive on the autobahn. It's not like they take our freeway with our level of drivers training and let anyone go on it. I've read it can cost up to $3000 to get a German drivers license with autobahn and fines for driving without a proper endorsement on your car, from $560-$5200. Yes, you read that right.

I've been on the Autobahn, plenty of it has a speed limit, either due to congestion, construction, road maintenance or being in the city area. Google says the unlimited section is about 50 percent. My experience being near a city was more of it had a limit than didn't.

 

[AirWolf]

I am not an attorney, but I did attend law school. Two things jump out at me here:

1. It is federal law (and I think Oregon also) that speed zones must comply with the latest state traffic engineer's survey and recommendation for that piece of road. If not, all citations issued on the basis of electronic surveillance in that area are null and void.

2. Investigate whether it is legal for the citation to be issued by an officer OTHER than the observing officer. It sounds very much like the SUV cop was doing the observing, and the MC cop was doing the issuing of citations.

3. [Bonus] Talk to an attorney. It may cost $150 for a consultation, but it might be worth it. If you run into what I did last time you might want that attorney with you in court. The way it was explained to me for Multnomah county is that the arresting officer acts as the DA at trial, and is assisted by the judge (?!!!!) with legal questions. This means that the judge is on the prosecution's team. You'd better have a legal expert on your side in that situation.

Also, there's the option of traffic school. You can sometimes get shuffled off to traffic school for a day and keep any convictions off your record. Incredibly, in Multnomah County the arresting officer decides whether you can go to traffic school (?!!!). When I consulted with an attorney about this he said it was clearly violating due process/equal justice under the law, but did I have $10K with which to fight that battle?

Federal law on speeding would have no bearing on a State court issuing a penalty in line with state law for a violation of the traffic laws of this state. Regardless going over 50 in a 50 mph zone is a violation of the basic speed rule. Exceeding the limit is primary evidence of such a violation. Since ODOT sets the limits on HWY 26 how would they be in violation of their own self, if such a Federal law even exists? Or are you saying if a city or some group set a lower limit than ODOT set it wouldn't be valid? Yes that's true, but it's not the electronic measurement that's null and void, it's the fact that limit wasn't set properly. I seriously doubt Hwy 26 anywhere along it's length falls into this category.


A peace officer in this state can issue a citation based on the probable cause established by another peace officer. However they testifying to what you did would be hearsay. The other officer needs to show up to court, and should get subpoenaed, to testify what they saw. OP said the guy told him he'd lasered him. OP could be confused or misunderstood.

In most Counties a cop acts as the prosecutor, he/she reprents the state and also gets to make or opose any punishments selected by the Judge. They don't get to decide if someone goes to traffic school, they can make deals before a hearing. Usually if a person retains a lawyer then the DA's Office will send a DA down to represent the state and things get more formal.

 

[strick]

I've said it before: German highways are smaller and more congested than ours, yet 70% of their highway has NO speed limit. There's no reason why we can't do the same. Freie Fahrt für Freie Bürger!

only problem with that is this,The Autobahn is twice as thick as ours and far better maintained in the areas that have no limit

 

[ilikegunspdx]

They never enforce left lane camping here. So if no speed limit it would still be all four lanes with cars going 60-65. And there is always some ahole that thinks it's his personal responsibility to sit in the left lane and not let anyone go over the speed limit.

 

[Bam]

In front of the judge, it is your word against the leo's, and the leo's word means so much more than yours.

If you think you are going to walk into that courtroom and have a "chat" with the Judge, don't be surprised when you are found guilty. Only way you are getting out of this ticket is if you have 100% solid proof you were not speeding and based on what I have read here you do not have that. The judge doesn't care about your explanation, only solid evidence, and facts is what they want to see.

If you don't have that solid evidence, you might be better off requesting traffic school and taking the slap on the wrist. Otherwise, if you give a lame explanation with nothing to back it up, you'd be lucky to even get a reduction.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

It's a legal practice if the citation is pre-signed with the observing officer's signature, and then has the "serving" officer fill in the violation the observing office directs them to write in.

That's how they're able to legally enforce the speed via aircraft, the observing officer in the aircraft pre-signs the citations, then directs the officers on the ground to fill in the details and serve the citation.

The OP should make sure he knows who signed the citation then.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Federal law on speeding would have no bearing on a State court issuing a penalty in line with state law for a violation of the traffic laws of this state. Regardless going over 50 in a 50 mph zone is a violation of the basic speed rule. Exceeding the limit is primary evidence of such a violation. Since ODOT sets the limits on HWY 26 how would they be in violation of their own self, if such a Federal law even exists? Or are you saying if a city or some group set a lower limit than ODOT set it wouldn't be valid? Yes that's true, but it's not the electronic measurement that's null and void, it's the fact that limit wasn't set properly. I seriously doubt Hwy 26 anywhere along it's length falls into this category.


A peace officer in this state can issue a citation based on the probable cause established by another peace officer. However they testifying to what you did would be hearsay. The other officer needs to show up to court, and should get subpoenaed, to testify what they saw. OP said the guy told him he'd lasered him. OP could be confused or misunderstood.

In most Counties a cop acts as the prosecutor, he/she reprents the state and also gets to make or opose any punishments selected by the Judge. They don't get to decide if someone goes to traffic school, they can make deals before a hearing. Usually if a person retains a lawyer then the DA's Office will send a DA down to represent the state and things get more formal.

Back around 1974 when I was in law school I got a radar ticket in a 25 mph zone on a four lane boulevard in my home town. I had just read a USSC case where a small southern town installed 25 mph signs on a state highway that had a 55 mph speed limit everywhere else it went, and then stationed its police officers at this speed trap writing citations 24/7.

The USSC threw out those convictions and established a federal rule that all speed zones where electronic monitoring is used to issue citations must comply with the latest traffic safety engineering survey. The parameters for establishing compliance were that the survey must identify the speed adopted by the 85th percentile driver, and that becomes the legal recommended speed. If a speed zone does not comply with that 85th percentile recommendation no elecrtronically based citations may be issued.

I went to my local ACLU attorney and as a professional courtesy to a law student he pushed the case for me pro bono, citing the USSC decision and formula. According to the formula, the blanket basic 25 mph speed limit within city limits was out of compliance on almost every zone. We got thousands of citations that had been issued using Nixon's STEP program grant money thrown out.

The 85th percentile rule is still the federal requirement, and it's now codified in most states' vehicle codes, including Oregon's.

As to the officer acting as prosecutor and receiving assistance from the judge, who also determines guilt or innocence, that's a clear violation of due process due to demonstrated bias. In my case, the arresting officer did most certainly control whether I could go to traffic school instead of going to court. When I queried him about it, he said he NEVER granted traffic school to anyone. That's a violation of equal protection under the law. Some officers do send people to traffic school, so his blanket refusal is capricious and arbitrary and denies equal protection.

 

[Jabba]

I went to my local ACLU attorney and as a professional courtesy to a law student he pushed the case for me pro bono, citing the USSC decision and formula. According to the formula, the blanket basic 25 mph speed limit within city limits was out of compliance on almost every zone. We got thousands of citations that had been issued using Nixon's STEP program grant money thrown out.

Nice! After getting a photo radar ticket I went over the statute meticulously, and I clearly had a loophole to get out of it. Clearly presented to a judge but he did nothing but reduce my fine a small bit, that pissed me off. Next time I will hire an attorney and push for class action status. I think there are a great many tickets that are not valid. Basically, a photo radar van in any location but a residential street needs explicit permission from the city to operate there. I see them on hwy 99 all the time.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

In front of the judge, it is your word against the leo's, and the leo's word means so much more than yours.

If you think you are going to walk into that courtroom and have a "chat" with the Judge, don't be surprised when you are found guilty. Only way you are getting out of this ticket is if you have 100% solid proof you were not speeding and based on what I have read here you do not have that. The judge doesn't care about your explanation, only solid evidence, and facts is what they want to see.

If you don't have that solid evidence, you might be better off requesting traffic school and taking the slap on the wrist. Otherwise, if you give a lame explanation with nothing to back it up, you'd be lucky to even get a reduction.

If the officer who signed the ticket doesn't show up, if the speed zone is out of compliance, if the officer hasn't been properly trained to use a laser, if the laser hasn't been properly calibrated within the given time frame, if any other of a number of things are not kosher then the defendant cannot be found guilty.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Nice! After getting a photo radar ticket I went over the statute meticulously, and I clearly had a loophole to get out of it. Clearly presented to a judge but he did nothing but reduce my fine a small bit, that pissed me off. Next time I will hire an attorney and push for class action status. I think there are a great many tickets that are not valid. Basically, a photo radar van in any location but a residential street needs explicit permission from the city to operate there. I see them on hwy 99 all the time.

Your remedy then would be to appeal the decision to a higher court (at a higher price).

 

[biggie24420]

In front of the judge, it is your word against the leo's, and the leo's word means so much more than yours.

If you think you are going to walk into that courtroom and have a "chat" with the Judge, don't be surprised when you are found guilty. Only way you are getting out of this ticket is if you have 100% solid proof you were not speeding and based on what I have read here you do not have that. The judge doesn't care about your explanation, only solid evidence, and facts is what they want to see.

If you don't have that solid evidence, you might be better off requesting traffic school and taking the slap on the wrist. Otherwise, if you give a lame explanation with nothing to back it up, you'd be lucky to even get a reduction.

I absolutely agree. But I am not guilty of going 75 mph, and I hope the officers don't show up. But if they do and I am found guilty, I will pay the $270.

Jesus knows and I know i am not guilty and that's all that matters.

These kangaroo courts don't scare me.

 

[biggie24420]

The OP should make sure he knows who signed the citation then.

The motor bike officer issued the ticket and his signature was on it. I know the officer a bit, seen him at work. I've actually had a LIDAR conversation with him once lol. He appeared to be a "cool" dude.... but i may have misjudged hahahaha.

 

[biggie24420]

Nice! After getting a photo radar ticket I went over the statute meticulously, and I clearly had a loophole to get out of it. Clearly presented to a judge but he did nothing but reduce my fine a small bit, that pissed me off. Next time I will hire an attorney and push for class action status. I think there are a great many tickets that are not valid. Basically, a photo radar van in any location but a residential street needs explicit permission from the city to operate there. I see them on hwy 99 all the time.

Early April I got to an intersection and sat there for the light to change. Then two flashed went off. I was the only car there.

Haven't got anything in the mail, and I'm sure the photo showed me just sitting there and not going through the intersection lol.