hunting rifles

[Gunner3456]

"...If you require longer-range capability, say out to 600-meters, the .257 Ackley, .308 Winchester (7.62x51mm NATO) and .30-06 are good choices. Both are capable of excellent accuracy and possess satisfactory terminal ballistic capability out to this distance.

Ranges past 600-meters require a flatter trajectory than most cartridges can produce, so cartridges like the .257 Weatherby, .270 Winchester, .270 Weatherby, 7mm STW, .30-338, .300 Winchester and .300 Weatherby are a better choice..."

Chuck Taylor

 

[osprey]

Don't sell the 270 short for an effective elk round. It is all about shot placement and the 270 lends itself to this due to its moderate recoil. I have killed two elk with my 270 with 140 gr. accubonds and they died just as quickly as the elk I have shot with my 300 wsm with 180 grainers. I have had many big boomers and still have one 338 but I never feel undergunned with my 270 win or 300 wsm nowadays. Good luck with your choices.

 

[orygun]

someday i will add a 270 as my dedicated deer rifle, i just dont see it as being a very good backup for elk

Yeah, right.

We've all been told that the .270 will just bounce off of an elk, especially with it's winter coat.

Don't be silly.

 

[fry]

i like 30.06 for everything. as of late im liking 30.06 and 45-70. last year i did all my killen with the 45-70.
also have several 300 savages, 308's and a 7mm mag blah blah blah as well as others.
i like remington 700's and control round feed (crf) winchester 70's.
wouldnt own a stainless hunting rifle (unless i moved to alaska)

thinking a 300 remington ultra mag or 338rum "non belted" magnum is the way to go

would never consider a short mag.

ymmv

 

[blitz]

yeah, i liked my 30-06 alot and i felt quite confident that i could take down anything i pointed it at, but i just decided that i would rather have the edge of the 300wm.
and sorry i am not trying to mock the 270 or say "it will bounce off an elk" i was just looking for other peoples opinions to see if they would change mine, they did not.
nothing against the people that use them every year and harvest elk with them.

 

[Crispy]

i like 30.06 for everything. as of late im liking 30.06 and 45-70. last year i did all my killen with the 45-70.
also have several 300 savages, 308's and a 7mm mag blah blah blah as well as others.
i like remington 700's and control round feed (crf) winchester 70's.
wouldnt own a stainless hunting rifle (unless i moved to alaska)

thinking a 300 remington ultra mag or 338rum "non belted" magnum is the way to go

would never consider a short mag.

ymmv

Out of curiosity... why would you never consider a short mag?

 

[Gunner3456]

i am not trying to mock the 270 or say "it will bounce off an elk" i was just looking for other peoples opinions to see if they would change mine, they did not.
nothing against the people that use them every year and harvest elk with them.

Yep, since '74 on elk, deer, bear and moose. It actually has greater terminal ballistics than a 30-06 beyond 300 or 400 yards, depending on bullet. It's a little thinner, cuts the air better, and retains more speed at distance. It shoots flatter. All it is is a slightly necked down '06 with more speed.

Bouncing off hair? Gimme a break.

Lemme bounce one off your hair at 500 yards, please?

 

[westcoastal]

ah the ol "this caliber is better than that one"
Ill vouch fot the lowly 270 . Ive taken over 20 elk both rosevelt and rocky mountain a few out to 400 yards.
As well as 40+ deer, couple antelope and countless coyote and well you get the idea. And knock on wood I havent lost a single animal and not very many needed a second shot
I had a 338-06 built from a mauser 98 ... great rifle but didnt kill em any deader than the 270 with 140g bullet so I sold it and onlu pack the mod 721 for everything just my 2¢


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[Spitpatch]

I don't see the .270 as a very good backup for elk either.

I see it as the perfect primary caliber for elk.

Having worked for an outfitter in the Bob Marshall Wilderness Area for a few years, the general consensus (validated over and over again by the outfitter and all guides and wranglers) was that if the client showed up with a newer gun chambered in a belted magnum (.300, .338 or such), he was instantly suspect as someone who might need some extra attention when it came time for the shot. THESE were the guys who more often than not created for us a tracking chore, believing their thumper somehow innoculated them against the need to practice thoroughly with the gun and place a shot perfectly.

We would get letters prior to a client's arrival asking about caliber recommendations, and the advice always given was that if they owned a trusted rifle in .30-06, .270 or such, that THIS should be the gun they bring. Invariably, some would completely disregard that advice and show up with a magnum. Normally, we would offer a time and place for clients to check zero on their gun prior to actually hunting, and just as invariably, the magnum guys would put on a less than stellar show. Actually, it was these guys that we strongly almost insisted they shoot their gun prior to hunting, and our suspicions were nearly always confirmed. But, clients are clients, and so we'd compliment their nice gun and whatever groups they produced with it, making a mental note that our work would be a bit harder with them to get closer for the shot, and be ready to deal with the aftermath.

On the other hand, if a client arrived with "ol' Betsy", that had served him well on deer most of his life (regardless of caliber, and probably closely resembling Gaius's Savage or Gunner's Ruger), we knew this was a man that could shoot (and probably knew how to hunt).

Without exception, these guys never insisted to us that "I can make that shot", when we recommended otherwise. They required less attention throughout the hunt, regarding horses, volunteering for camp chores and assisting in care of the game on the ground. They also were by and large much more successful, and took the minor mishaps and misfortunes of the hunt all in stride, with few if any complaints, compared with the magnum guys who wanted to be waited on hand-and-foot. Of course there were exceptions, but they were very few.

One-shot kills were the rule with the "ol' Betsy" clients, and one-shot kills were the rare exception with the magnum crowd. The view from my saddle.

 

[fry]

Out of curiosity... why would you never consider a short mag?

I like that short magnums are not belted. I'm not sold on a fad that seems to be fading. I don't think they are better than traditional magnums and think they may not be as good with the application of the heavier bullets. I have never owned one but have seen club members who have had fantastic results hand loading for them. I am not against short magnums I just think the non belted RUM is what I would go with should I feel the need for a super whumper. Have been keeping my eye out for a pre owned 338RUM.

I also don't like stainless hunting rifles or stainless hunting scopes. If the stainless is blackened or black in color, I like.

Also think 270 30.06 and 7 rem mag are the chosen calibers for deer and elk. Ammo will almost always be available in the most remote places in north america.

 

[Spitpatch]

Some input about the short magnums: full admission that I have never owned one or hunted with one.

I HAVE worked with five of them. Load work-up and accurizing for friends who got caught up in the novelty of it all. (And, I will admit the concept seemed appealing to me as well.)

Three of the five guns (Remingtons and Winchesters) had feeding problems. One went back to the factory three times before remedied. These "short fat" cartridges are rather tempermental in their willingness to always reliably come up from the magazine into the chamber. It is my hope and belief that perhaps now the rifle manufacturers have worked a bit harder on mitigating these malfunctions, and it could well be that all concerns are addressed.

But I got the cure for my interest fast. So did three friends. Subsequent objective testing has demonstrated that the "marvelous" ballistics advantages originally reported for these cartridges are largely without true substance when compared to what was already available. I do not doubt that numerous owners of these guns have had and will have no problem whatsoever, but I cannot disregard my own experiences.

 

[Gunner3456]

Checkmate.

Chuck Hawks.com

 

[blitz]

ok ok i admit it. i am a newbie to hunting, last year being my first year out besides when i was younger i hunted with my uncle. maybe that is why i feel a little more confident with the bigger magnums.
i guess the reason why i posted this was to try and get my confidence level up for smaller calibers on big thick skinned game because i have read so many mixed reviews on whether or not smaller is better for elk.
i do shoot alot and can place a bullet where i want it out to 200 yards (thats as far as i have tried) and that is also on a paper target standing still
i just figured with a bigger caliber i could hit it in the whereever and it would fall fairly quikly, and with a smaller caliber like the 270 shot placement is key with a bigger possibility of having to make a follow up shot.
it just seems like you would have to wait for that perfect shot to drop an elk cleanly with a 270 and sometimes that isnt ideal.

on another note bimart cannot get me my bear hunter for quite some time so i am gonna go ahead and stray away from the 300/338 combo and get something else. i am still dead set on the 300wm for my primary elk hunting rifle but i am not set on the other caliber yet.
i am however getting rid of most of my reloading components to my cousin without taking to much of a loss so that helped out alot in straying to a different caliber.

 

[Gunner3456]

"There is no magic caliber, and no magic bullet. If there were I would be inclined to nominate the .270 caliber and the 130 grain bullet for the honors. Perhaps no other caliber has compiled, with a single bullet weight, such an outstanding record on such a variety of animals at all ranges. The key to the success of all four of the principal .270 calibers is a blend of flat trajectory coupled with versatility and manageable recoil that is pretty hard to match, let alone beat.

Despite the amount of favorable press devoted to the 7mm cartridges, in North America at least, they have always existed in the shadow of the .270 calibers."


Chuck Hawks

 

[Gunner3456]

ok ok i admit it. i am a newbie to hunting, last year being my first year out besides when i was younger i hunted with my uncle. maybe that is why i feel a little more confident with the bigger magnums.
i guess the reason why i posted this was to try and get my confidence level up for smaller calibers on big thick skinned game because i have read so many mixed reviews on whether or not smaller is better for elk.
i do shoot alot and can place a bullet where i want it out to 200 yards (thats as far as i have tried) and that is also on a paper target standing still
i just figured with a bigger caliber i could hit it in the whereever and it would fall fairly quikly, and with a smaller caliber like the 270 shot placement is key with a bigger possibility of having to make a follow up shot.
it just seems like you would have to wait for that perfect shot to drop an elk cleanly with a 270 and sometimes that isnt ideal.

on another note bimart cannot get me my bear hunter for quite some time so i am gonna go ahead and stray away from the 300/338 combo and get something else. i am still dead set on the 300wm for my primary elk hunting rifle but i am not set on the other caliber yet.
i am however getting rid of most of my reloading components to my cousin without taking to much of a loss so that helped out alot in straying to a different caliber.

IMHO, and obviously some others here, you're going to bust your shoulder for nothing. If you can shoot (and it's easier to do with a lighter caliber IMHO) you will drop any of our Western game in its tracks with a .308, 30-06 or .270. The .270 is sweeter, easier, flatter shooting, and more powerful when measured as kinetic energy at all ranges. See chart above.

Have fun with your bruised shoulder. You're going to put a minimum of 200 rounds practice ammo through your rifle before you go hunting, right?

 

[westcoastal]

when i was 12 or 13, a friend of the family was up from eugene hunting elk actually a cow tag.
they really really needed the meat for their family.
he had had no luck and was only able to hunt the one weekend.
so he asked me to go get him a cow, so up the hill i went with my trusty glenfield 22.
found a nice big ol cow put the sneak on her in the timber and three in the ear and he had his meat for thew winter.
so to the "magnum only for elk" guys, it comes down to shot control not size or energy or volocity.

 

[blitz]

i know i know. that is another reason why i dropped the 338 out. i am still however gonna get the 300wm but i am also seriously reconsidering the 270win.

 

[blitz]

when i was 12 or 13, a friend of the family was up from eugene hunting elk actually a cow tag.
they really really needed the meat for their family.
he had had no luck and was only able to hunt the one weekend.
so he asked me to go get him a cow, so up the hill i went with my trusty glenfield 22.
found a nice big ol cow put the sneak on her in the timber and three in the ear and he had his meat for thew winter.
so to the "magnum only for elk" guys, it comes down to shot control not size or energy or volocity.

i see it very irresponsible shooting an elk with a .22 though btw

 

[Greenbug]

Checkmate.

Chuck Hawks.com

This data is a bunch of BS! The 30-06 with a 150 grain bullet is slower than a 308 (7.62 NATO) with a 168 grain bullet? The load data for the 30-06 has been neutered by about 250-300 FPS. I just checked the 5 different loading manuals I have comparing 270 vs. 30-06 load velocity with 150 grain bullets, and the 30-06 is faster every single time.

Not saying the 270 isn't a great round or that the 30-06 is better, just saying theses figures are BS.

 

[Gunner3456]

This data is a bunch of BS! The 30-06 with a 150 grain bullet is slower than a 308 (7.62 NATO) with a 168 grain bullet? The load data for the 30-06 has been neutered by about 250-300 FPS. I just checked the 5 different loading manuals I have comparing 270 vs. 30-06 load velocity with 150 grain bullets, and the 30-06 is faster every single time.

Not saying the 270 isn't a great round or that the 30-06 is better, just saying theses figures are BS.

There is a huge difference in power and velocity between the .308 and the 7.62 NATO. He didn't list the more powerful .308.

"Winchester supplied sample Supreme Elite ammunition with the new XP3 bullet to Guns and Shooting Online in .308 Winchester/150 grain (stock # SXP308) and .270 Winchester/150 grain (stock # SXP270W) calibers. The sectional density (SD) of all .308"/150 grain bullets is .226, while the SD of all .277"/150 grain bullets is .279. Winchester recommends these loads for both CXP2 and CXP3 game.

Winchester catalog ballistics for the .308 load claim a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2825 fps and muzzle energy of 2658 ft. lbs. from a 24" test barrel. Down range velocity and energy figures are: 2616 fps/2279 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 2417 fps/1945 ft. lbs. at 200 yards, 2226 fps/1650 ft. lbs. at 300 yards, and 2044 fps/1392 ft. lbs. at 400 yards. The Winchester trajectory figures printed on the box for that load are based on a 200 yard zero with a scope line of sight 1.5" over the axis of the bore and look like this: +1.8" at 100 yards, 0 at 200 yards, -7.8" at 300 yards, and -22.6" at 400 yards.

Winchester ballistics for the .270 load claim a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2950 fps and muzzle energy of 2705 ft. lbs. from a 24" test barrel. Down range velocity figures are: 2763 fps at 100 yards, 2583 fps at 200 yards, 2411 fps at 300 yards, and 2245 fps at 400 yards. The Winchester trajectory figures for that load are based on a 200 yard zero and look like this: +1.5" at 100 yards, 0 at 200 yards, -6.7" at 300 yards, and -19.5" at 400 yards.

Link

Winchester 30-06:

Velocity (ft./sec.)

------------------muzzle 100yd 200yd 300yd 400yd 500yd

150 gr------------2910----2696 2492 2298 2111 1934

Energy:

150 gr------------2820---- 2421 2069 1758 1485 1246

<broken link removed>


The .270 Win still beats them in all categories. Yes you can hand load hotter with any, if it doesn't affect accuracy.