How easy it is to get killed

[wired]

The original post is about how easy it is to get killed in a calamity with just a few people screwing up their job. People may have died because the oil company didn't deliver the right fuel to the right spot.

As to your thinking construction workers are unreliable because they don't stay working for you, I worked almost my entire life in construction and only took odd jobs when no contracts were available.

I think I know why you can't find help good luck.

Trust me Ive been dealing with flaky workers my whole career . You arent the first.

 

[gmerkt]

It sounds like the mistake was made in loading at the fuel depot and involved multiple tanker loads, not just one driver who screwed up his drop.

Years ago, I knew this old colonel who had thousands of hours flying for MAC. One of his stories was about the C-124 that stopped to refuel at Gander Field in Newfoundland, took off again and was over the Atlantic when the engines started to miss. The ramp crew at Gander had refueled the plane with Diesel. The C-124 made it back but it was a close thing.

 

[gmerkt]

There was a time when I used to acquire various odd-ball solvents and refined combustibles. Like kerosene, for example. At the time, I had a number of old beater-type vehicles, all carbureted and pre computer. I had one vehicle that I would burn these off in. Not concentrated, but mixed with gasoline. If you mix in too much bojack "fuel," the vehicle will let you know the mixture isn't right. Oh, and smoke. Kerosene will smoke some.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Trust me Ive been dealing with flaky workers my whole career . You arent the first.

ever think it might be you and not them? Employers will figure it out sooner or later that it takes good management to keep good employees. If you can't keep employees there is a reason, people talk about companies all the time and why you don't want to work for them.

People are tired of working like slaves and look for opportunities, in all your years as a boss did you ever try to make the jobs better for the worker or just go get a border jumper to fill the spot.

 

[wired]

ever think it might be you and not them? Employers will figure it out sooner or later that it takes good management to keep good employees. If you can't keep employees there is a reason, people talk about companies all the time and why you don't want to work for them.

People are tired of working like slaves and look for opportunities, in all your years as a boss did you ever try to make the jobs better for the worker or just go get a border jumper to fill the spot.

Yes, the border jumpers work , show up and dont complain tand they dont leave as soon as some other marginally better opportunity opens up. True story. Those sorts of jobs dont get better but like I said before if you want to double the cost of food you can have your way but it wont make any difference. Soft Americans wont work those jobs no matter what because no matter what it pays those jobs suck.

 

[kmk1012]

Umm, I believe the cost of food has already doubled. Trust me, single income here until very recently. I know that most goods have more than doubled. Now, as to the original topic, this could be very bad for a lot of people.

 

[Stomper]

That's the thing . You just proved my point . They stay day in day out and don't complain and come back the next day. I've been in food manufacturing my whole career . No one works harder then those people

Are you referring to these, "those people"?

 

[wired]

Umm, I believe the cost of food has already doubled. Trust me, single income here until very recently. I know that most goods have more than doubled. Now, as to the original topic, this could be very bad for a lot of people.

Well, real numbers aren that extreme but it is up about 20% in the last 4-5 years. Could be worse. Could be in the Japanese model where prices and wages continue to fall as the currency collapses in slow motion.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Yes, the border jumpers work , show up and dont complain tand they dont leave as soon as some other marginally better opportunity opens up. True story. Those sorts of jobs dont get better but like I said before if you want to double the cost of food you can have your way but it wont make any difference. Soft Americans wont work those jobs no matter what because no matter what it pays those jobs suck.

Jobs suck because the company sucks. You can make life better for those doing hard work but companies think like you do, it's the nature of the work so it's hard. You see it no matter where you work, the old bosses with no new ideas on making work better.

Worked paving a lot and one company I worked for didn't have ditch gates on the trucks to make it easy to dump asphalt into the ditch. I asked the old boss why no ditch gates and he said " if you don't like to shovel then you don't want to work here".
Too stupid to try to make the work easier and people quit all the time. Including me, I don't believe in wearing out a human body when you don't have to in order to get the job done. Getting the job done is what we are paid to do.

Anyway good luck on finding help.

 

[wired]

Jobs suck because the company sucks. You can make life better for those doing hard work but companies think like you do, it's the nature of the work so it's hard. You see it no matter where you work, the old bosses with no new ideas on making work better.

Worked paving a lot and one company I worked for didn't have ditch gates on the trucks to make it easy to dump asphalt into the ditch. I asked the old boss why no ditch gates and he said " if you don't like to shovel then you don't want to work here".
Too stupid to try to make the work easier and people quit all the time. Including me, I don't believe in wearing out a human body when you don't have to in order to get the job done. Getting the job done is what we are paid to do.

Anyway good luck on finding help.

Your misunderstanding of the post Covid labor market is profound

 

[P7M13]

As to your thinking construction workers are unreliable because they don't stay working for you, I worked almost my entire life in construction and only took odd jobs when no contracts were available.

I think I know why you can't find help good luck.

LongWalk, no one is questioning your work ethic, and you also hail from a different era where work ethic made a difference in surviving or not.
Friends who have been foremen in construction have told me a lot of stories on the flakiness of crew. Another friend who owned a concrete company would say outright, "this is hard, grueling work. I will pay you x for your first week, and then your pay is double after that" (what the going scale was). Most guys would quit after the first or second day, which is why he instituted that incentive. I have done consulting work at dozens of firms where you can see the ones who are filling a seat and the ones who are motivated. I brought in an engineer for a specific client that was very demanding. He did great work, but couldn't handle the stress and was gone as soon as he found a different gig.
I did a project at one of those fueling depots. This one was self serve, but with fifty plus tanks feeding the fuel island, with the control system had multiple spots for human error. If an employee opened the wrong valve, fuel oil would be delivered instead of gasoline.

 

[trevi]

Diesel. After Alligators and before meth heads. Got it

It was my understanding that diesel and gas got mixed by human error in this recent fiasco. No?

I do know that bad gas, meaning old or with water has been seasonally common in florida. From experience.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Your misunderstanding of the post Covid labor market is profound

sorry but it's you that has no understanding why people won't work for you. Proof is right there looking at you when you can't hire help for good money. Yall just can't put yourself in the shoes of good men who want work.

 

[wired]

sorry but it's you that has no understanding why people won't work for you. Proof is right there looking at you when you can't hire help for good money. Yall just can't put yourself in the shoes of good men who want work.

Again you do not understand the dynamics of the labor market post 2019. You can pay out the ying yang, you can make the job on a floating pillow of ambrosia. You still wont have enough people applying to keep the plant running. There are no "good men who want to work" out there. . Hahaha.

 

[wired]

It was my understanding that diesel and gas got mixed by human error in this recent fiasco. No?

I do know that bad gas, meaning old or with water has been seasonally common in florida. From experience.

The same was said of the gas in Oregon for ddecadeswhen they had no inspection system in place. I'd drive to Cannon beach with full gas cans in the back of the truck in case I had to fill up because if I didn't there'd be hell to pay for weeks after.

I think a lot of old legends die hard. I still know people who think women in Australia outnumber men 6:1. because of some story they heard from their great uncle in WW2.

 

[Longwalkhome]

LongWalk, no one is questioning your work ethic, and you also hail from a different era where work ethic made a difference in surviving or not.
Friends who have been foremen in construction have told me a lot of stories on the flakiness of crew. Another friend who owned a concrete company would say outright, "this is hard, grueling work. I will pay you x for your first week, and then your pay is double after that" (what the going scale was). Most guys would quit after the first or second day, which is why he instituted that incentive. I have done consulting work at dozens of firms where you can see the ones who are filling a seat and the ones who are motivated. I brought in an engineer for a specific client that was very demanding. He did great work, but couldn't handle the stress and was gone as soon as he found a different gig.
I did a project at one of those fueling depots. This one was self serve, but with fifty plus tanks feeding the fuel island, with the control system had multiple spots for human error. If an employee opened the wrong valve, fuel oil would be delivered instead of gasoline.

No offense but the boss was a flake for expecting men to work for less than he was paying others for the same work.

If you went to a doctor and said you only get paid half until I see how good your work is he would throw you out.

I have been in on a lot of concrete pours and every job is back breaking and some very dangerous.

I was on the committee to hire new workers and 10 years ago it was $2400 it cost to just get a new hire on the job.

Sounds like your friend was trying to cut cost and save money which is typical of construction companies.

HR and the people that hire normally don't have a clue about who will stick with the job so there is a lot of turnover when it's hard work.

I won't comment on engineers because they live in a world of their own, everyone different.

 

[Yarome]

On the immigrant issue... let's not fall for the misdirection rhetoric focusing only on the exceptions to drive the narrative. Those with legal status and are legally employable immigrants aren't the issue, and they do help drive the economy. They typically are honest and hard working individuals.

It's the 40+ "cousins" of each of the legal immigrants that are here illegally that are the problem. Paid under the table... illegally.... that aren't working long term full time jobs day in and day out... and that don't contribute to taxes... yet bleed tax payer $'s in public services like health care, housing subsidies, public schools, welfare benefits, etc... and do things like driving up tax and insurance rates for the law abiding to compensate.

Trying to class them all... legal and illegal alike... as the same based on what side of the immigration issue you're talking are both flawed arguments from the onset.

Just sayin.....

 

[Knobgoblin]

No offense but the boss was a flake for expecting men to work for less than he was paying others for the same work.

If you went to a doctor and said you only get paid half until I see how good your work is he would throw you out.

I have been in on a lot of concrete pours and every job is back breaking and some very dangerous.

I was on the committee to hire new workers and 10 years ago it was $2400 it cost to just get a new hire on the job.

Sounds like your friend was trying to cut cost and save money which is typical of construction companies.

HR and the people that hire normally don't have a clue about who will stick with the job so there is a lot of turnover when it's hard work.

I won't comment on engineers because they live in a world of their own, everyone different.

Not trying to ruffle your feathers any further, but 10 years ago is about as relevant as 100 years ago. Hourly wage entry level jobs in light industry are in complete chaos. This is literally in the last 3 ( three) years.
I respectfully acknowledge yours years of experience, but things have changed.

 

[wired]

On the immigrant issue... let's not fall for the misdirection rhetoric focusing only on the exceptions to drive the narrative. Those with legal status and are legally employable immigrants aren't the issue, and they do help drive the economy. They typically are honest and hard working individuals.

It's the 40+ "cousins" of each of the legal immigrants that are here illegally that are are the problem. Paid under the table... illegally.... that aren't working long term full time jobs day in and day out... and that don't contribute to taxes... yet bleed tax payer $'s in public services like health care, housing subsidies, public schools, welfare benefits, etc... and do things like driving up tax and insurance rates for the law abiding to compensate.

Trying to class them all... legal and illegal alike... as the same based on what side of the immigration issue you're talking are both flawed arguments from the onset.

Just sayin.....

My experience with them isn't that they work under the table. More like the US immigration system is so broken they can work for 6 months to a year before they get nailed for having fake documents. In that time, they pay "someones": taxes, social security etc but then as soon as they get busted, they bail to the next job with another set of fake docs and do the same thing all over again. Seen it over and over again. What happens to that money they paid into Social Security? It doesn't go them. Where does it go?

 

[Yarome]

It was my understanding that diesel and gas got mixed by human error in this recent fiasco. No?

I do know that bad gas, meaning old or with water has been seasonally common in florida. From experience.

Not exclusive to Florida, but it's not an uncommon issue from time to time.

You're right though. The OP was referencing the diesel being snafu'ed into gasoline tankers. Nothing about gasoline being mixed into diesel tanks though... so... don't know about you, but "I'm good!!".