Home Invasion and Lessons Learned

[Nick Burkhardt]

No grip safety for me. Excerpt from a 2009 robbery survivor

I continued turning toward him while lowering my pistol to return fire, which evidently put the right hand directly in the line of fire as he squeezed off another round. I can only assume that my hand blocked the shot from hitting my stomach or chest as we were practically face to face at that point. It took me just a second to recover and he started retreating toward the door, backing away from me and shooting. I got two shots off as he was backing away, both missing him. I had the little problem with the next round not going off, thinking I had a jam, I ducked behind the table to clear the gun and yelled for everyone to stay down. I looked down and saw how bad my hands were as I cleared the round out, and stood back up to continue fire. (Looking back on it, I think I realized that I wasn't getting a good grip due to the screwed up hand and neglected to engage the grip safety)

My CCW Shooting AAR--Now with More Graphic Pics on pg 29 & 30 - AR15.COM

 

[Caveman Jim]

This is one of the reasons I sold all my different caliber pistols (22 revolver, 9mm, 40S&W (single stack), 357/38 revolver) and consolidated 4 down to two of the same handguns in 40S&W & the XDM40 pistols use the same magazines. I CC a compact version and the wife has the full size for use in her car.
I bought 1,000 180gn JHP bullets and practice regularly. I will not get into the "mine is the best setup" argument because I am confident in what mine will do, as well as others whom have the same confidence in their setups whatever they may be.
I have no doubts of what my objective is and what it has always been when challenged with a threat, it is to stay alive to keep my family safe and unharmed. With that in mind my training will kick in and see me through (I pray it does) because if I didn't think I was confident enough to use deadly force then I would never wear a gun in public.
Also, I will never give a warning shot, EVER. Just my

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Um......terribly sorry, pal, but no warning shots, only shots to the upper end of center mass! I will use "Quick Kill" on you! If the US military taught me how, it must be OK!
You will never be shot with ball ammo in my home! You will never threaten me! Last and least, I've been in jail before. I can handle it!

 

[U8395279]

Man, leaving your car running in the driveway with the keys in the ingition is just asking for trouble. Huge lesson to be learned here about being that careless.

And having an exterior door for your home with that much glass in it? That is an incredibly dumb idea, in my opinion. I have a solid front door, with a tough metal mesh security door on the outside of it.

If this had happened to me, I would never have been in any position where I would have needed to use a firearm to protect myself.

So many people just do not take the subject of their home security seriously. And incidents like this one are then the result.
.

 

[Joe13]

This is what I have been saying for a long time. I "fired" 2500 to 5000 rounds per week in tournament paintball, and that is my experience when the adrenaline is flowing and people are shooting back at you, even though it's just a game. I seldom used the red-dot or reflex sights that were on my Autococker. I just learned to shoot where I was looking through practice and repetition. I'm going to build that AR-15 I won on this site as a HD weapon. The only sights I am going to consider for it are a laser or a red-dot because that's all you MIGHT have time for in a fire fight.



This is why all of my carry and HD pistols have the same type of safeties located in the same places. Managing them is now automatic.

What this post does make me want to do is think about my ammo. I've been pretty lax, figuring that a hit with any bullet style from a generic cartridge would be good enough, and using my LC9s carry gun and my 1911 HD gun pretty much interchangeably. Starting tomorrow that changes. I'm using my 1911 for HD and the carry gun for concealed carry only. I'm also going to be replacing any ball ammo with +P hollow point for carry and HD. The ball ammo will be reserved for the range.

Outside military experience I think paintball is a civilians best chance at becoming better and that gives you a huge advantage.

Muscular memory, being used to the adrinaline of "bullets" flying at you, learning how to use cover effectively, and how to put your gun out and very little else.

Old isn't an excuse either, I played with guys in their 60's regularly and we stomped a swat team repeatedly on our home course; partly because we had home advantage and partly because we weren't worried about "dieing".


I'll have an AR setup as soon as I can afford a reliable one and a wall quick access safe for it but until then it's a light in one hand and a .45 in the other.

I also have no problem shooting thru corners because I know where the cover spots are in my house and have the added advantage of being old school trained and shoot one handed, with either hand regularly (thanks to the grandpa I never knew - yay abidexterity genes).


I do keep my smaller carry gun on the night stand, it will go to my wife who doesn't carry but shoots well for her defense if I'm taken out for some reason.


When the kid (19 is still a kid even though we have never ever had issues - there are some things I won't leave to luck (like her safety) is out of the home, a shotgun and AR will be loaded and accessible at all times.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Kinda tongue in cheek , but a line from Gone to Texas , The book which the movie The Outlaw Josey Wales was based on comes to mind:

"When things git plumb wuss ... where it's liken to be ye cain't make it ... thet means its all goin' to be decided right quick ... cain't last long.
Then ye got to git mean ... dirty mean ... ye got to git plumb mad-dog mean ... like a heller ... and ye'll come through,
Iff'n ye lose yore head and give up ... ye're finished and ye ain't deservin' of winnin' ner livin'.
Thet's the way it is. "

Best read and spoken with a Southern accent.
I know that the quote is from a fictitious character , but its good advice for a tight spot.
Andy

 

[bbbass]

Didn't read the article, but in general remember that in HD your handgun is only to give you time to fight your way to your long gun.

 

[11Charlie]

Well I know my shotlock for my AR and my mossberg 12 gauge are getting ordered soon. I always have my small carry piece sitting on my night stand and my Canik SF9 with a tactical light on it sitting in a open gun vault at night. But thats all changing. No more ball ammo!!!

 

[Meridian7750]

So help me out with something...
Several posters in this thread have said "I'll never use ball ammo", yet the original story reports that Gold Dot 124 grain was used. To the best of my knowledge, all Gold Dot is HP.
Am I missing something? Does Speer make an FMJ gold dot?
This isn't just a nitpick...I too carry Gold Dot 124 in my 3" (Glock 43), and will now be researching if this is an adequate combination.
Any help appreciated.

 

[DB is Here]

It was summer 2010 and I was awoken at 3am by the sound of my alarm, to be honest I thought it was the fire alarm since 2 years before that we had a fire in our furnace.

I looked at the alarm...It showed the garage door had been opened. With pistol in hand I turned the alarm off (2nd key pad in master bedroom). Told my wife to call 911 and I headed to my safe to grab my shotgun. With shotgun in hand I cracked open my bedroom door, I could still hear that someone was downstairs. I announced I was armed, that I'd called the cops and was coming down with my shotgun.

I have 4 daughters and a wife, thankfully only the youngest daughter was home as the others were at friends spending the night. From my 2nd floor I can see the stairwell completely and could see if the intruder was coming up. I peaked my head into my daughters room, grabbed her arm and told her to get into my room with Mom.

I again announced that I was armed and coming down, I then heard a loud stomping, then the sound of blinds from a window and then nothing. When I made it downstairs (Gun up & ready) I saw the rear window open and the blinds hanging with the wind blowing them. I cleared the house then yelled upstairs to my wife to stay put and I'll wait for the cops to arrive.

As I sat there in my underwear, shotgun at the ready it took Pierce County Sheriff 22 minutes to respond. Yes...22 minutes. The Deputy arrived, knocked on my door and I met him with my shotgun at my side standing in my underwear...I should have put my gun down. His eyes got the size of saucers...LOL. I put my gun down and ushered him in, I asked why it took 22 minutes and he said the call came in as a prowler call Outside the house), not a burglary (Inside the house).

I never saw the burglar, however 6 months later I got my stuff back less the $7.00 taken from my wallet. I was told the guy was a crackhead and he was armed with a .38 special and I was one of many that he had burglarized. I'm glad I was armed and ready for the fight, I'm blessed he chose to leave then stay for the fight.

Things I learned:
Don't leave your back windows cracked in the summer. If you must then buy some doweling and make it so your windows can't open past the 3-4 inches you intended them.

I've also learned that you will feel violated when someone enters your home w/o permission, that one took about a year for me to get over. I slept with one eye open...Haha.

I also wouldn't have gone downstairs, I would have trained the shotgun at the stairwell and waited for help to arrive.

 

[11Charlie]

It was summer 2010 and I was awoken at 3am by the sound of my alarm, to be honest I thought it was the fire alarm since 2 years before that we had a fire in our furnace.

I looked at the alarm...It showed the garage door had been opened. With pistol in hand I turned the alarm off (2nd key pad in master bedroom). Told my wife to call 911 and I headed to my safe to grab my shotgun. With shotgun in hand I cracked open my bedroom door, I could still hear that someone was downstairs. I announced I was armed, that I'd called the cops and was coming down with my shotgun.

I have 4 daughters and a wife, thankfully only the youngest daughter was home as the others were at friends spending the night. From my 2nd floor I can see the stairwell completely and could see if the intruder was coming up. I peaked my head into my daughters room, grabbed her arm and told her to get into my room with Mom.

I again announced that I was armed and coming down, I then heard a loud stomping, then the sound of blinds from a window and then nothing. When I made it downstairs (Gun up & ready) I saw the rear window open and the blinds hanging with the wind blowing them. I cleared the house then yelled upstairs to my wife to stay put and I'll wait for the cops to arrive.

As I sat there in my underwear, shotgun at the ready it took Pierce County Sheriff 22 minutes to respond. Yes...22 minutes. The Deputy arrived, knocked on my door and I met him with my shotgun at my side standing in my underwear...I should have put my gun down. His eyes got the size of saucers...LOL. I put my gun down and ushered him in, I asked why it took 22 minutes and he said the call came in as a prowler call Outside the house), not a burglary (Inside the house).

I never saw the burglar, however 6 months later I got my stuff back less the $7.00 taken from my wallet. I was told the guy was a crackhead and he was armed with a .38 special and I was one of many that he had burglarized. I'm glad I was armed and ready for the fight, I'm blessed he chose to leave then stay for the fight.

Things I learned:
Don't leave your back windows cracked in the summer. If you must then buy some doweling and make it so your windows can't open past the 3-4 inches you intended them.

I've also learned that you will feel violated when someone enters your home w/o permission, that one took about a year for me to get over. I slept with one eye open...Haha.

I also wouldn't have gone downstairs, I would have trained the shotgun at the stairwell and waited for help to arrive.

Wow good on you man it sounds like you did everything right. One never knows how they will handle the situation until they are in the heat of it.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[mkwerx]

So help me out with something...
Several posters in this thread have said "I'll never use ball ammo", yet the original story reports that Gold Dot 124 grain was used. To the best of my knowledge, all Gold Dot is HP.
Am I missing something? Does Speer make an FMJ gold dot?
This isn't just a nitpick...I too carry Gold Dot 124 in my 3" (Glock 43), and will now be researching if this is an adequate combination.
Any help appreciated.

No, there's no gold dot FMJ's - only hollowpoints. Others referencing ball are stating that because lots of 1911's don't play well with JHP ammo, and there are still folks out there mistakenly thinking that FMJ is "just fine" when it comes to defensive use, mostly old guys stuck 4 or 5 decades in the past, and young guys who listen to the old guys and take their word as gospel.

I personally like the Gold Dot in 124 grain +p, but I also like the Hornady XTP 124. I prefer all my 9mm carry / defense loads be +p when I can get them. I have some in the mix that are standard 124's and some 147s but when those get shot up I'll be replacing them with 124 grain stuff again. Shot placement is the primary factor in stopping a threat, so I don't feel the need to go heavier caliber wise - and the 16 rounds in my Glock plus the spares I carry and keep handy *should* be adequate for a fast response. For bump in the night stuff I do prefer my AR though - which I keep a 20 round mag of premium ballistic tip Hornady rounds loaded up in, with some 30 round mags at the ready if 20 isn't enough for some ungodly reason.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

So help me out with something...
Several posters in this thread have said "I'll never use ball ammo", yet the original story reports that Gold Dot 124 grain was used. To the best of my knowledge, all Gold Dot is HP.
Am I missing something? Does Speer make an FMJ gold dot?
This isn't just a nitpick...I too carry Gold Dot 124 in my 3" (Glock 43), and will now be researching if this is an adequate combination.
Any help appreciated.

 

[oknow]

One thing I would say is never shoot to maim shoot to kill.

I would like to think that in a mortal combat i would have the serenity to shoot well and at the chest and head.

Even best laid plans go to heck under stress

A perp on a stimulant drug like meth or crack could be hit mortally and still f' you up

use the biggest calibers you can shoot well and safely.

I use pistol caliber 380 and 9x18 for home defense as that is what my cirumstances allow

If i had choice I would use 300 win mag

or

12 gauge slugs

but i live in the middle of the city so overpenatration is a concern

needless to say the shots from my 380 or 9mm will be aimed at the chest and face of a perp

and the rest shall say -


Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward
Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that law is both
For a wounded man shall say to his assailant
'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, You are forgiven'
Such is the rule of honour

I hope you never come across a home or personnel defense. Mainly because you just gave the prosecution lawyer ammo to convict you if the perp dies.
Anytime you have to shoot it is to stop the perp and make him a non threat not to kill.

 

[Joe13]

I hope you never come across a home or personnel defense. Mainly because you just gave the prosecution lawyer ammo to convict you if the perp dies.
Anytime you have to shoot it is to stop the perp and make him a non threat not to kill.

Great point how your words can be used against you. As well as that is my understanding as well - stopping the threat should be your verbiage or don't say a thing until you have a lawyer present.

 

[DB is Here]

It's always stated "I shot to stop the threat", because that's what it is.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

Others referencing ball are stating that because lots of 1911's don't play well with JHP ammo, and there are still folks out there mistakenly thinking that FMJ is "just fine" when it comes to defensive use, mostly old guys stuck 4 or 5 decades in the past, and young guys who listen to the old guys and take their word as gospel.

You young whippersnappers think you got all the answers. Let me tell you the great thing about .45 rounds: they stay .45 all the way through. A hole is still a hole, and I guess I'd just keep putting half-inch holes in him until the bad guy stops.

 

[DB is Here]

You young whippersnappers think you got all the answers. Let me tell you the great thing about .45 rounds: they stay .45 all the way through. A hole is still a hole, and I guess I'd just keep putting half-inch holes in him until the bad guy stops.

My Glock 21 w/ 13 +1 agrees.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

You young whippersnappers think you got all the answers. Let me tell you the great thing about .45 rounds: they stay .45 all the way through. A hole is still a hole, and I guess I'd just keep putting half-inch holes in him until the bad guy stops.

These 9mm Federal HST 147gr standard velocity JHP rounds expanded to .6XX inches and penetrated a perfect 13" into calibrated ballistic gel.

After watching several tests in which standard 147 JHP rounds actually outperformed the +P 147 and 124 versions I'm buying them today. The lighter weight bullets tended to expand less and therefor penetrate too far. The standard velocity rounds seemed to consistently perform better in something like my Ruger LC9s with a 3" barrel.

BTW, the Gold Dot 124gr rounds performed very inconsistently, with 40% failing to expand and passing straight thru 32" of ballistic gel. This is consistent with what the home invasion report says about them.

I did not watch any tests of ball ammo, but I know for sure that FMJ in the same weight with the same velocity will not expand nearly enough, and will over penetrate.

 

[mkwerx]

Those with .45's on here probably aren't stoking them with ball ammo for anything but range use - I'd bet ya'll have some modern hollowpoints in them, if not you probably should. Or at least something like PowRBall - I've used these in guns that didn't like JHP's, and they work well - I used to own a Hi Power that ate Pow R Ball like a champ but choked on every JHP I tried to feed it.