Here's an Original: 7mm vs 300

[sheepdip]

it is not so much what you shoot them with as it where you hit them

 

[majcl5]

Ballistics are in favor of the 7mm. You can shoot a bullet w/ a much higher b.c value in the .284 cal. rather than the .308 cal. Its just simple math. The 7mm w/ a 168 gr berger has more knock down power @ 1000 yards than a 30-378 Weth. mag. And if closer range is your game there is such little difference it doesnt matter much. Best cal ballisticallty is the 7mm rum nothing is close. Its math and that simple.

 

[sheepdip]

you make it all sound so simple. i guess i will sell everthing i own and get a 7mm rum and all the problems in the world will be solved

 

[majcl5]

I actually own both and like both calibers but math is math and it may solve all the problems..Ha Ha lol

 

[mjbskwim]

7mm RUM
<broken link removed>

(R) 140 SP 3425 3158 2907 2669 2444 2229 3646 3099 2626 2214 1856 1545 +1.8* -2.7* -11.9* -27.o*
(R) 140 NOS 3425 3184 2956 2740 2534 2336 3646 3151 2715 2333 1995 1697 +1.7* -2.6 -11.4 -25.7
(N) 160 NOS 3200 2991 2791 2600 2417 2241 3637 3177 2767 2401 2075 1784 +2.1 -3.0 -12.9 -28.8

 

[mjbskwim]

300WM
<broken link removed>

E BULLET MFG. WT. TYPE MUZZ. 100 YDS. 200 YDS. 300 YDS. 400 YDS. 500 YDS. MUZZ. 100 YDS. 200 YDS. 300 YDS. 400 YDS. 500 YDS. 100 YDS. 300 YDS. 400 YDS. 500 YDS.
.300 Win. Mag. (F) 150 SP 3280 2980 2700 2430 2190 1950 3570 2957 2420 1970 1590 1270 +1.2 -6.0 -17.9 -37.1
(S) 150 SP 3290 2951 2636 2342 2068 1813 3605 2900 2314 1827 1424 1095 +1.3 -6.3 -19.0 -39.8
(W) 150 FS 3260 2943 2647 2370 2110 1867 3539 2884 2324 1871 1483 1161 +1.3 -6.2 -18.7 -38.9
(P) 150 SP 3150 2902 2665 2438 2222 2017 3304 2804 2364 1979 1644 1355 +1.3 -6.2 -18.3 -37.4
(F) 150 TBBC 3280 2980 2700 2430 2190 1950 3580 2960 2420 1970 1590 1270 +1.2 -6.0 -17.9 -37.1
(P) 150 BTSP 3250 2987 2739 2504 2281 2070 3517 2970 2490 2088 1733 1426 +1.2 -6.0 -17.4 -35.6
(P) 150 X 3135 2918 2712 2515 2327 2146 3273 2836 2449 2107 1803 1534 +1.3 -6.1 -17.1 -35.7
(Hi) 150 NOS 3199 2958 2730 2514 2307 2110 3409 2916 2484 2105 1773 1484 +1.2 -5.9 -17.3 -35.3
(H) 150 BTSP 3275 2988 2718 2464 2224 1998 3572 2972 2460 2022 1648 1329 +1.2 -5.9 -17.6 -36.3
(H) 150 SST 3275 3027 2791 2565 2352 2149 3672 3052 3593 2192 1842 1538 +1.2 -5.8 -17.0 -34.5
(RWS) 165 SP 3180 2933 2700 2476 2267 2066 3706 3153 2671 2250 1883 1565 +1.3 -6.0 -17.8 -36.3
(W) 165 FS 3120 2807 2515 2242 1985 1748 3567 2888 2319 1842 1445 1126 +1.5 -7.0 -29.9 -43.6
(N) 165 Swift 3117 2921 2734 2554 2382 2217 3561 3127 2738 2390 2080 1801 +1.2 -5.9 -17.2 -34.6
(H) 165 BTSP 3100 2877 2665 2462 2269 2084 3522 3033 2603 2221 1887 1592 +1.3 -6.5 -18.5 -37.3
(H) 165 SST 3100 2883 2676 2478 2289 2108 3520 3034 2633 2250 1920 1628 +1.3 -6.2 -18.1 -36.6
(F) 165 SP 3050 2820 2600 2380 2180 1990 3410 2905 2465 2080 1745 1450 +1.4 -6.6 -19.4 -39.5
(Hi) 165 ABC 2986 2650 2338 2048 1780 1539 3268 2574 2003 1537 1161 867 +1.7 -8.1 -24.6 -52.3
(F) 165 PP 3050 2850 2650 2470 2290 2120 3410 2970 2580 2235 1925 1645 +1.4 -6.3 -18.4 -37.1
(SB) 168 HP 3064 2825 2602 2398 2196 2005 3507 2998 2543 2161 1800 1500 +1.4 -6.5 -19.2 -39.0
(RWS) 170 SP 3004 2754 2435 2176 1934 1709 3608 2875 2245 1843 1412 1103 +1.6 -7.5 -22.4 -46.7
(S) 180 HP 2950 2764 2586 2415 2250 2092 3478 3054 2673 1744 1450 1198 +1.5 -6.7 -19.4 -38.9
(N) 180 HP 3018 2755 2506 2271 2048 1839 3641 3034 2512 2062 1677 1352 +1.6 -6.3 -18.1 -37.1
(P) 180 SP 2853 2643 2446 2258 2077 1906 3522 2792 2391 2037 1724 1451 +1.7 -7.5 -21.9 -44.3
(S) 180 SP 3018 2780 2555 2341 2135 1942 3641 3091 2610 2190 1823 1507 +1.5 -7.0 -20.1 -40.9
(S) 180 SP 2960 2745 2540 2344 2157 1979 3501 3011 2578 2196 1859 1565 +1.6 -7.0 -20.2 -41.0
(W) 180 SP 3070 2859 2657 2464 2280 2103 3768 3267 2823 2428 1978 1768 +1.4 -6.3 -18.3 -37.1
(W) 180 FS 2960 2732 2514 2307 2110 1923 3503 2983 2528 2129 1780 1478 +1.6 -7.1 -20.7 -42.1
(W) 180 SP 3070 2846 2633 2430 2236 2051 3768 3239 2772 2361 1999 1641 +1.4 -6.4 -18.7 -38.0
(Hi) 180 SP 2986 2791 2605 2426 2254 2089 3565 3115 2712 2352 2031 1744 +1.5 -6.6 -19.1 -38.5
(F) 180 X 2960 2760 2570 2380 2210 2040 3500 3045 2635 2270 1950 1680 +1.5 -6.8 -19.8 -39.8
(P) 180 X 2910 2738 2572 2412 2258 2109 3384 2995 2644 2325 2037 1778 +1.6 -6.9 -19.8 -39.4
(H) 180 SP-HM 3100 2879 2668 2467 2275 2092 3840 3313 2845 2431 2068 1772 +1.4 -6.4 -18.7 -37.5
(A2) 180 MON 3120 2756 2420 2108 1820 1561 3890 3035 2340 1776 1324 972 +1.6 -7.6 -22.9 -49.0
(BH) 180 HP 3100 2908 2724 2537 2377 2214 3840 3380 2966 2594 2260 1960 +1.3 -6.0 -17.4 -34.9
(BH) 180 X 2950 2779 2615 2456 2303 2155 3479 3088 2733 2412 2120 1857 +1.5 -6.6 -19.0 -37.9
(F) 180 TB-HE 3100 2830 2580 2340 2110 1900 3840 3205 2660 2348 2190 1700 +1.1 -5.4 -15.8 -32.3
(S) 180 SP 2960 2774 2595 2424 2259 2100 3501 3075 2692 2348 2039 1762 +1.5 -6.7 -19.3 -38.7
(N) 180 A 2920 2687 2466 2256 2056 1867 3409 2887 2432 2035 1690 1393 +1.7 -7.4 -21.6 -44.1
(L) 185 PP 2985 2672 2378 2104 1849 1616 3576 2863 2269 1776 1371 1047 +1.7 -7.9 -23.6 -49.7
(L) 185 SP 2723 2442 2178 1931 1702 1496 3047 2450 1949 1532 1191 920 +2.2 -9.6 -28.5 -59.5
(R) 190 Match 2900 2752 2557 2395 2239 2089 3547 3133 2758 2420 2115 1840 +1.6 -6.9 -19.9 -39.8
(R) 190 BTSP 2885 2691 2506 2327 2156 1993 3511 3055 2648 2285 1961 1675 +1.6 -7.2 -20.8 -41.9
(BH) 190 HPM 2950 2781 2619 2462 2311 2165 3672 3265 2895 2559 2254 1978 +1.5 -6.6 -18.9 -37.7
(F) 200 NOS-HE 2930 2740 2550 2370 2200 2030 3810 3325 2885 2495 2145 1840 +1.6 -6.9 -20.1 -40.4
(F) 200 BTSP 2830 2680 2530 2380 2240 2110 3500 3180 2830 2520 2230 1970 +1.7 -7.1 -20.4 -40.5
(R) 200 A 2125 2595 2376 2167 1970 1783 34565 2989 2506 2086 1722 1421 +1.8 -8.0 -23.5 -47.9
(L) 200 PP 2805 2534 2278 2038 1813 1606 3495 2852 2306 1845 1460 1146 +2.0 -8.7 -25.8 -53.5
(F) 200 TBBC 2800 2570 2350 2150 1950 1770 3480 2935 2460 2050 1690 1382 +1.9 -8.2 -23.9 -48.8
(N) 200 SP 2789 2511 2249 2003 1774 1566 3110 2520 2022 1604 1259 980 +2.0 -8.9 -26.6 -55.4

 

[mjbskwim]

300RUM
<broken link removed>

BULLET MFG. WT. TYPE MUZZ. 100 YDS. 200 YDS. 300 YDS. 400 YDS. 500 YDS. MUZZ. 100 YDS. 200 YDS. 300 YDS. 400 YDS. 500 YDS. 100 YDS. 300 YDS. 400 YDS. 500 YDS.
.300 RUM (R) 150 Swift 3450 3208 2980 2762 2556 2358 3964 3427 2956 2541 2175 1852 +0.9 -4.9 -14.3 -29.0
(F) 165 PP 3350 3110 2890 2670 2470 2270 4110 3550 3050 2615 2230 1890 +1.0 -5.2 -15.3 -31.2
(F) 180 TBBC 3250 3000 2770 2550 2340 2130 4220 3605 3065 2509 2180 1820 +1.2 -5.7 -16.8 -34.4
(R) 180 SP 3230 2988 2742 2508 2287 2076 4171 3535 2983 2503 2086 1725 +1.2 -5.9 -17.4 -35.5
(R) 180 Swift 3250 3048 2856 2672 2495 2325 4221 3714 3260 2853 2487 2160 +1.1 -5.4 -15.8 -31.5
(F) 200 SP 3070 2870 2670 2490 2310 2140 4175 3645 3175 2750 2375 2040 +1.4 -6.2 -10.1 -36.5

 

[majcl5]

check 168 grain berger vld's that is the key bullet in a .284 cal. the bc value is higher in that bullet than is possible in a .308 cal bullet that is the key @ long range the higher the bc value the better it cuts wind and increses your velocity which is the key to all ballistics.

168 grain berger vld .284 cal is .648 i believe
168 grain berger vld .308 cal is like .512.

the noslers bc value isnt even close its much lower.
Serria match kings and hornady has a match grade bullet also.

check out "best of the west site". they explain it much better than me

 

[jyerxa]

There is just no chance in **** my opinion will be fair and balanced. My baby is the Remington 700 7mm

 

[turq]

My answer isn't biased cause I like to buy rifles for everything.
35 whelen(shilen BBl.)225gr @ 2800fps sounds good.
But I just found a 338 'New' Ruger MKII for $410 and I had a scope so now it's another in 338 shooting 225gr @ 2830fps(backup).I'm happy.

You have deer calibers(and good ones!) so concentrate on elk and for ***'* sake go to a wider bullet than 308!!! (375 Ruger is a nice thumper.)

Near no expectations that someone will agree^^^?

 

[chainsaw]

All my friends use 7mm mag for elk and many are succesfull.Personally,I use a 35 Whalen w/250 gr rn bullets.Haven't killed an elk yet,but my fingers are crossed.My Father uses his 270 and has killed a couple elk with it.I know a guy that hunts elk with a .357 mag rifle,and gets one almost every year with it.Still another person I know uses a .243 and has killed more than a few.
The perfect elk cartrige is the one you are most comfortable shooting.

 

[jyerxa]

You all probably know about this web site, but I'm kind of new here to this web site. I use to go over the ballistic charts all the time too but I found this to be really cool.

<broken link removed>

 

[jdogg]

I don't know if its the guns themselves or the rounds but I can shoot 50 or 60 7mm rounds at the range without the shoulder pain of a box of 300. Could be the guns though. I love my 700 in 7 mag, don't really care for my buddies savage (I think) .300. It ends up that even though the .300 might be a little bigger and more powerful, I can get much much better groups with the 7mm than the .300 due to higher amounts of rounds sent down range (and perhaps the not completely wincing like a little girl every-time I pull the trigger....) Just my two bits.

 

[iusmc2002]

I don't know if its the guns themselves or the rounds but I can shoot 50 or 60 7mm rounds at the range without the shoulder pain of a box of 300. Could be the guns though. I love my 700 in 7 mag, don't really care for my buddies savage (I think) .300. It ends up that even though the .300 might be a little bigger and more powerful, I can get much much better groups with the 7mm than the .300 due to higher amounts of rounds sent down range (and perhaps the not completely wincing like a little girl every-time I pull the trigger....) Just my two bits.

So stop wincing! Then again, the women I've seen in my job take pain MUCH better than men, so maybe being a little girly isn't all that bad
I can't add to the vs. debate, I'll just say I'm happy as **** that I have both calibers because I love to shoot stuff!

 

[Ward]

At 56, I've run through a lot of hunting rifles. Started with a 30/06 but soon thought more power was needed after packing an elk out of a canyon he might not have reached if I'd shot better. Got a 300 Windbag. It killed elk about as well as the 30/06. There've been a lot of others but twenty years ago I finally decided a 7mm Mag was required. It was Remington 700ADL but pretty soon it got one of the early Bell & Carlson stocks and BDL bottom metal. It kills elk about as well as the 30/06 or 300 Win.

My advice now is to get the rifle you want. The cartridge it shoots isn't important as long as it is reasonably well suited to the situation and you use good bullets. Most will take the air out of stuff well enough.

 

[orygun]

At 56, I've run through a lot of hunting rifles. Started with a 30/06 but soon thought more power was needed after packing an elk out of a canyon he might not have reached if I'd shot better.

My advice now is to get the rifle you want. The cartridge it shoots isn't important as long as it is reasonably well suited to the situation and you use good bullets. Most will take the air out of stuff well enough.

This is great advice. Too many people insist on a specific cartridge and say it's the only way to go.
No one here is saying to get a 7mm-08, but the elk I saw shot with one was as dead as you can get. That was my wife's elk. She has a 7mm-08 because it doesn't knock her into next week and the Ruger Compact fits her well. I can't shoot her gun as well as she can because it doesn't fit me!
One of my best friends has harvested many different kinds of animals, and many of them. He used to hunt with a 300 H&H and now usually hunts with a 300 Win Mag or a 270 WSM. He doesn't like the 30-06 for much of the same reason I'm not a Chevy guy. Everyone has a 30-06 and a Chevy, no?

But when we got into a cartridge conversation even he had to admit, If you can't kill it cleanly with a 30-06, it's your own fault.
(he and I have yet to dive into the fact that the barrel on his cherished 300 H&H is shortened to the point that my 06 is likely faster!)

But, given the choice of just the 7mm Mag and the 300 Win Mag, I'd pick the 300. 300 WSM? probably just keep my 06.

 

[sheepdip]

270 wsm for me, got a brand new one, waiting for scope mounts to show up, cant wait to shoot it

 

[DeanMk]

Dan360,

Several years ago, a whole bunch of gun writers got together and tried to determine the "perfect caliber".
It would retain the highest sectional density while still achieving the highest ballistic coefficient.
They crunched a bunch of numbers and had a lot of meetings and determined that the perfect caliber was .284 (aka 7mm).
Bullet for bullet, that caliber averaged the highest sectioinal density and ballistic coefficient.
As for big game, the forerunner of the 7mm Rem. Mag was the 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum.
I've got an old gun digest from the mid 60's that shows a hunter with a prize Caribou that he downed with one shot at 400 yards.
The gun was chambered for the 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum and it was loaded with a 160 grain bullet.
Get the 7mm. You'll be fine.


Dean

 

[orygun]

check 168 grain berger vld's that is the key bullet in a .284 cal. the bc value is higher in that bullet than is possible in a .308 cal bullet that is the key @ long range the higher the bc value the better it cuts wind and increses your velocity which is the key to all ballistics.

168 grain berger vld .284 cal is .648 i believe
168 grain berger vld .308 cal is like .512.

You're comparing apples to oranges with this example.

Basically BC favors long sleek bullets. When making comparisons of different calibers, and to make them fairly realistic, you need to make each pick relative to the range of bullets for each bore. While the 168gr picked here is on the the heavy side of bullets for caliber when used in a 7mm bore, it's on the lighter end of the bullets for a 30 cal.
Berger lists the 168 VLD as having a BC of .617 You have to go to 180gr (very heavy for caliber) to get to a BC of .659.
For their .308 bullets, it's a BC of .473 at 168gr, but steps up to .631 for a 210 gr bullet.

Nosler shows BCs of .531 for a 160gr 7mm and .588 for a 210gr 308. Both Accubonds and relative to the weight to bore sizes.
Barnes = BC of .529 with a 150gr 7mm (their heaviest BT bullet) and .552 for the 180gr 308. (also heaviest BT)

In my opinion the example quoted here is a flawed and is skewed to favor the 7mm. It does show that Bergers are slippery SOBs. But when comparing "heavy" for caliber bullets from all makers, it doesn't pan out in the 7mm's favor.

 

[majcl5]

But if your are using a heavy caliber bullet you are not going to get near the long distance performance