Hatred + Government + Disarmed Civilians = Genocide

[bugeye]

Your argument is now irrelevant to me I could debate until the sun goes down we could talk about the books the loser leader has written and his political associations,radical leftist socialist Church membership and you can insult my intellect as most people on the left do, it's a learned behavior and yes I will question yours but I know this I will never get through to you most of it has to do with the heart, I have lived in many cultures I have lived everywhere from Italy, Florida, Arizona,Texas, Mississippi,Colorado and even Massachusetts ..
I survived a gun crime and I carry a bullet in my gut for the rest of my life, yet I still fight for gun rights I don't knee jerk react like the left does and say everyone needs to be disarmed and let the Government take care of us...in my heart that is not what the American way truly is...I am way to the right I believe in just enough Government to prevent anarchy, I am a Conservative Libertarian but at least I know who I am...you poke your finger in many chests saying things like "sore loser" probably not a good idea to say in a Gun forum you don't know many of the peoples stories here, you don't know who is a true patriot who has served " I did for 8 years" and who may be just blowing smoke, but I know the type or at least I can assert my assumptions when I have told my story to some at first they don't believe me then they see me coming out of the shower with three 380 scars in my stomach then they sheepishly ask ...So BUd what happened to that other guy? then they look at me and my eyes and say never mind..

Thanks for serving your country, and I'm sorry about the bullet, but you still could find out what a cds is, yes? And then see how the markets have been manipulated by the lack of rules. If you do that you will see a need for some better rules regarding these securities because we have all been the victims of a legal crime, as the inmates of the financial asylum were allowed to write their own rules.

As far as the thug tactics go, yes I know that many moderates in this group let you ubberbubbas say whatever you want and never take you on because they are afraid of you. I've never lived a fearful life and I have no intention of starting now, but I wonder why a simple well defended observation about your behavior gets me no reasonable arguments, just some emotional responses and a threat? Are you folks really that afraid of living in a fact based universe outside of the fox bubble?

 

[bugeye]

Spoken like a true misinformed goof

Brilliant comeback, did your mom help you with that one?

Leave peoples moms and kids out of the already against the rules insults!

Yeah right, this was his mom I was talking about, like I know her, sheesh. Also, you will note that I did cast mom in a positive light, lol.

 

[Decker]

Are you folks really that afraid of living in a fact based universe outside of the fox bubble?

Well, I don't get my news from FOX and just in case you don't want to read/hear what Fox says either here's some CNN.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/26/news/economy/NABE_survey/index.htm

Cheers.

-d

 

[Buddymack]

Thanks for serving your country, and I'm sorry about the bullet, but you still could find out what a cds is, yes? And then see how the markets have been manipulated by the lack of rules. If you do that you will see a need for some better rules regarding these securities because we have all been the victims of a legal crime, as the inmates of the financial asylum were allowed to write their own rules.

As far as the thug tactics go, yes I know that many moderates in this group let you ubberbubbas say whatever you want and never take you on because they are afraid of you. I've never lived a fearful life and I have no intention of starting now, but I wonder why a simple well defended observation about your behavior gets me no reasonable arguments, just some emotional responses and a threat? Are you folks really that afraid of living in a fact based universe outside of the fox bubble?

Reform is needed but not more Government if you can get it through your head we need less Government control, our founders were correct in saying that if Government gets bigger freedom becomes smaller, we need to get rid of the FED all together and if any hope is left get of the rest of FDR and Wilson's socialist tactics it is a virus that has infected a near perfect system.
But when Saul Alinsky speaks the left listens http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm
then we have so called moderates whom in my opinion with moderates who are not in tune with the Constitution what do we need liberals for?

 

[bugeye]

can't Obama produce his birth certificate or school records? The reports are that he spent a million dollars to hide and keep them hidden. If it shows he's truly a US citizen then let him prove it. Even the courts have taken his side and refuse to open the records for public knowledge ruling that the general public has " no standing". How can it be that we, the people, have "no standing" in finding out if he is a US Citizen when that is a REQUIREMENT of office? I certainly would have no qualms about providing mine under the same circumstances.

If he's doing such a "good job" then why are the poles showing he's doing a lousy job?

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
WAC member
SWWAC member

Now we have a birther, and that as the be the very edge of bad losers.

Polls don't evaluate how good a job a president is doing, they evaluate perceptions of how a president is doing. These perceptions are not formed in the pure light of actual performance - the media advertising plays for the hearts and minds of the public. As usual in America, the side willing to lie the most wins the most support. Of course this isnt' going to lead us anyplace good, because from bs you only get more bs, but since people will not be swayed by reason this is all we have.

Also, getting back to this thread, no one took on my opposition to the goofy chart posted at the start. The people that did that chart could have made a real case using resonable facts and figures, instead they made bs, and as can be seen by the reactions in here, that is all that was required. If anything says to me that our best days as a country are behind us, it is this unquestioning acceptance of flawed information if it agrees with our view. If we the people are going to have any hope of maintaining control of this country as the gov and the corporations become one, then we need a common reality and we can only find that if we can find common truth to back it up.

 

[gunnails]

In your opinion, when did we last have a non crooked admin?

==========================================================

Who is Gerald Ford,,,, Then maybe Truman?

 

[bugeye]

==========================================================

Who is Gerald Ford,,,, Then maybe Truman?

Ford, a really good choice, he was put in after Nixon because he was the cleanest Republican they could find on the hill, he was also the poorest and a genuine public sevant, but he was not anyone who could have gotten in under normal circumstances. However, Ford while taking the figurehead left most of the Nixon Admin in place, and that was filled with liars, self serving players, good old boys, the goofy unemployable children of major raisers of campaign contributions, and incompetents, just like most admins have been.

Truman too, another good choice. He wasn't very popular though and the long filter of ww2 had honed the players in that admin to the most dedicated. Truman had also angered many corporations like union carbide via his roll as government auditor of the value of war production. That was the last time the sacred cows still had small targets on them, they are full fledged gods now and thou shalt not mess with them.

Based on your response then you seem most admins as crooks, so I guess thats a fair call.

 

[yubariver]

can't Obama produce his birth certificate or school records? The reports are that he spent a million dollars to hide and keep them hidden. If it shows he's truly a US citizen then let him prove it. Even the courts have taken his side and refuse to open the records for public knowledge ruling that the general public has " no standing". How can it be that we, the people, have "no standing" in finding out if he is a US Citizen when that is a REQUIREMENT of office? I certainly would have no qualms about providing mine under the same circumstances.

If he's doing such a "good job" then why are the poles showing he's doing a lousy job?

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
WAC member
SWWAC member

If his mom is a citizen, then he is a citizen, no?

"Through birth abroad to one United States citizen

For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true [7]:

1. One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
2. The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
3. A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday."

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Now we have a birther, and that as the be the very edge of bad losers.

Polls don't evaluate how good a job a president is doing, they evaluate perceptions of how a president is doing. These perceptions are not formed in the pure light of actual performance - the media advertising plays for the hearts and minds of the public. As usual in America, the side willing to lie the most wins the most support. Of course this isnt' going to lead us anyplace good, because from bs you only get more bs, but since people will not be swayed by reason this is all we have.

Also, getting back to this thread, no one took on my opposition to the goofy chart posted at the start. The people that did that chart could have made a real case using resonable facts and figures, instead they made bs, and as can be seen by the reactions in here, that is all that was required. If anything says to me that our best days as a country are behind us, it is this unquestioning acceptance of flawed information if it agrees with our view. If we the people are going to have any hope of maintaining control of this country as the gov and the corporations become one, then we need a common reality and we can only find that if we can find common truth to back it up.

That street runs both ways.

I think you might look a little deeper into the political structures of this world. You would find that Republican/Democrat are two wings on the same dirty bird. A false choice we are given so that when we are tired of being abused by one, we stampede to the other. In reality, they are both controlled by the same greedy, power mad pigs that make living on this planet so much less than what it could be. Look past the surface to the "man behind the curtain". Come November - leave no incumbent standing - throw all the bums out - regardless of party affiliation.

 

[yubariver]

That street runs both ways.

I think you might look a little deeper into the political structures of this world. You would find that Republican/Democrat are two wings on the same dirty bird. A false choice we are given so that when we are tired of being abused by one, we stampede to the other. In reality, they are both controlled by the same greedy, power mad pigs that make living on this planet so much less than what it could be. Look past the surface to the "man behind the curtain". Come November - leave no incumbent standing - throw all the bums out - regardless of party affiliation.

So tear it all down. Replace it with what?

 

[bugeye]

Well, I don't get my news from FOX and just in case you don't want to read/hear what Fox says either here's some CNN.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/26/news/economy/NABE_survey/index.htm

Cheers.

-d

from your cite:
"NABE conducted the study by polling 68 of its members who work in economic roles at private-sector firms. About 73% of those surveyed said employment at their company is neither higher nor lower as a result of the $787 billion Recovery Act..."

Wow a survey of a whole 68 people, and 27% indicate that it did help.

The stimulus bill helped kept unemployment going for millions of americans, there was a 100 billion tax break to working people, people on social security got a little help, Pell Grant limits were increased for college students, tax credit was added for people paying over $4000 a year in tutition, the first time home buyer credit and it's extension helped stop real estate from falling though the floor, and it prevented the alternative minimum tax from hitting the middle class. Add to this financing of many projects that helped employ construction workers and trades people, who were really clobbered by the housing meltdown, and you have some help! This bill was not very good but it was something, and at least it didn't all go to the financial institutions that nearly made us go boom, like the tarp passed under Bush, and administered by Bush's treasury secretary, Hank Paulson, X CEO of Goldman, who got to bail out his buddies from the outcome of just the sort of legalized criminality that Hank himself was guilty of. Note, a lot of the money from tarp shoved into aig to prop it up went right to Goldman who bet via CDS's that housing bonds were going to melt down while continuing to issue these same bonds.

 

[bugeye]

That street runs both ways.

I think you might look a little deeper into the political structures of this world. You would find that Republican/Democrat are two wings on the same dirty bird. A false choice we are given so that when we are tired of being abused by one, we stampede to the other. In reality, they are both controlled by the same greedy, power mad pigs that make living on this planet so much less than what it could be. Look past the surface to the "man behind the curtain". Come November - leave no incumbent standing - throw all the bums out - regardless of party affiliation.

Of course it is a two way street. We need to meet in the middle and that is nowhere near the edges.

I think there is a 5 to 10 degrees of difference between the parties and I think the Dems favor the people over the corporations a bit more than the Repubs, even though both parties are corporate in nature. As I see it the recent supreme court decision that allows corporations to manipulate the elective process without legal limit is going to change the landscape big time. We had plenty of corruption given the lobbys, but this is a whole new level of it, just uncaged. They will be spending huge and bombarding us with propaganda trying to put their proxies into office. Advertising works. and they will hire the best, and they will succeed in most cases. Since the votes of 'we the people' can be purchased and manipulated, only us thinking for ourselves, pointing out the method of deception, and finding a common reality in the middle can save us.

You know what, this is a pipe dream, nothing is going to save us because we have no unity, and we lack great people to follow. Everyone seems to be a sell out these days. Where are the people that can put the ideals of their country first, way ahead of their personal bottom lines? And where are the people to back them who can tell truth from fiction?

I sure haven't found many in here.

 

[zeezee]

Last post;
Norman Thomas said this in a 1944 speech:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." He went on to say: "I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform."

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

So tear it all down. Replace it with what?

There is a perfectly good system that nobody is using at the moment. It's called the United States Constitution.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Of course it is a two way street. We need to meet in the middle and that is nowhere near the edges.

I think there is a 5 to 10 degrees of difference between the parties and I think the Dems favor the people over the corporations a bit more than the Repubs, even though both parties are corporate in nature. As I see it the recent supreme court decision that allows corporations to manipulate the elective process without legal limit is going to change the landscape big time. We had plenty of corruption given the lobbys, but this is a whole new level of it, just uncaged. They will be spending huge and bombarding us with propaganda trying to put their proxies into office. Advertising works. and they will hire the best, and they will succeed in most cases. Since the votes of 'we the people' can be purchased and manipulated, only us thinking for ourselves, pointing out the method of deception, and finding a common reality in the middle can save us.

You know what, this is a pipe dream, nothing is going to save us because we have no unity, and we lack great people to follow. Everyone seems to be a sell out these days. Where are the people that can put the ideals of their country first, way ahead of their personal bottom lines? And where are the people to back them who can tell truth from fiction?

I sure haven't found many in here.

I think we would agree in many more ways than we disagree, once you get past the political party thing. I used to identify more with the Rebublicans before my eyes opened up. I'm more of a political athiest these days, but I still come in from pretty far on the right. I believe in personal responsibilty, and equal opportunity for all. True equal opportunity. The opportunity to excel or fail based on your own talent and initiative, irrespective of all cultural differences. I would like a truly level playing field (although there never has been such a thing). The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, all by yourself, with no guarantees of outcome. Thrive or starve - your choice.

We all see what is coming at us to varying degrees. Very few people I talk to can honestly say that everything is groovy. Governments are good at two things - stealing and killing. That pretty much covers it. If you look at anything government does well, it involves one of those two activies. I don't bash one side more than the other - they are both evil.

Wake up - try to find some honest people that will steer this country back to the representative republic it was always supposed to be. Put government back into its box. Restrict government activities to those listed in the constitution. All others reserved to the states or the people. Most of us just want to be left alone to build whatever type of life makes us happy. But if it comes down to a choice - I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

Don't give up - people are waking up faster and faster every day.

 

[bugeye]

Last post;
Norman Thomas said this in a 1944 speech:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." He went on to say: "I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform."

We are in no danger of becoming a socialist nation, we are in danger of having the corporations take over, not the public.

This country was very liberal during and after the war, after all so many had sacrificed so much that it only seemed fair to share the wealth.They also got a first hand view of what happens to a country and a people, and the great harm that they do, when the edge of right, fascism, takes over. Fascism is what happens when the government working with the corporations (or really big businesses historically) take over and dictate to the public. As I see it this is where we are heading.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

We are in no danger of becoming a socialist nation, we are in danger of having the corporations take over, not the public.

This country was very liberal during and after the war, after all so many had sacrificed so much that it only seemed fair to share the wealth.They also got a first hand view of what happens to a country and a people, adn the great harm that they do, when the edge of right, fascism, takes over. Fascism is what happens when the government working with the corporations (or really big businesses historically) take over and dictate to the public. As I see it this is where we are heading.

Heading? We have arrived.

 

[JumpWing]

I keep bugeye on ignore...

Is there a feature for this? Or were you speaking metaphorically?

 

[Stomper]

We are in no danger of becoming a socialist nation, we are in danger of having the corporations take over, not the public.

This country was very liberal during and after the war, after all so many had sacrificed so much that it only seemed fair to share the wealth.They also got a first hand view of what happens to a country and a people, and the great harm that they do, when the edge of right, fascism, takes over. Fascism is what happens when the government working with the corporations (or really big businesses historically) take over and dictate to the public. As I see it this is where we are heading.

Hey Bug,

I agree with you (to a point) about heading into a "fascist" state (and ATM the Dems are driving that bus @ 120mph towards it), but I think you may be referring to the European model of "right" and "left"... to the European "left" is Communism, to the european "right" is Fascism.... not much difference between the two, BOTH are (ultimately) about BIG government (Hitler said so himself). Its just different means to the same end, only the "tools" to get there differ.

IMO the USA "model" of left/right is MUCH different...

Left = "liberal" which USED to mean libertarian, aka less government intrusions into PERSONAL freedoms, a term that was co-opted by the progressive movement back in Wilson's day when their political fortunes were going down. The American "left" is in the pocket of big business (and vice-versa) as well... can you say GE, Goldman Sacks, and the newly built CCX out of Illinois that stands to make 10 TRILLION DOLLARS a year in profits, and guess who founded another company that owns 10% of that pie if the cap and tax bill gets passed... that's right our Democratic hero and champion of "the people"... Al Gore!! The left has been co-opted by extremists using certain "wedge issues" (simplistic examples) like abortion, welfare, class warfare, "gay" rights, etc.

The American "model" of the "right" is no better... corporate colusion, (Enron, S&L's, etc.) but its a perversion of the "conservative movement"... (simplistic examples) personal freedoms, self-reliance, stricter adherance to the original intent of the Constitution, etc.

The LOVE OF MONEY drives all of this (and we get to foot the bill), the "flag/banner" you march under is irrelevant. Corporatism, socialism, fascism, communism... its ALL slavery (and ultimately death) in the end, so what are WE CITIZENS going to do about it?

 

[chris61182]

Stomper, good post on trying to clarify the terms we're all using. Unfortunately left and right have been redefined so many times as to be meaningless. I prefer the Nolan chart, in this case I've added the current approximate locations of our party system along with that of the Constitution. In light of that arguing left v. right is pretty much pointless.