Gunfire in the food court at Clackamas town center...

[lamrith]

That's art created by the painter Banksy.

Never thought he created the art, just find it a bit of an odd message for someones background, specially now with 20/20 hindsight..

I find it very interesting that as long as his name has been out, the page is still up and open?

 

[Stomper]

Just saw this on 12 new app
SALEM, OR (KPTV)—An Oregon state senator is proposing a bill that could put new restrictions on gun and ammo sales.

Sen. Ginny Burdick sent an email to colleagues in the House and Senate outlining her proposal in the wake of the Clackamas Town Center shooting.

She said the ability of Jacob Roberts to fire off numerous shots from his AR-15 rifle cannot be ignored.

"This terrifying situation exemplifies the danger of large capacity magazines in our community," states the email, which was forwarded to FOX 12 by Burdick. "Large capacity magazines can dramatically increase death tolls and have no legitimate place in our neighborhoods."

Burdick said even hunters are restricted from using large capacity magazines.

Her proposal, which was drafted for pre-session filing for the 2013 legislative session, creates a crime of knowingly selling or transferring large capacity magazines. Specifically, it would prohibit gun magazines with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

The concept creates and exemption for law enforcement and military personnel, according to Burdick.

The penalty for breaking the law would be $6,250 in fines, one year in prison or both.

Every time I hear the name, "Ginny Burdick", I think of the usefulness of "breast" on boar... or lack thereof.

 

[oknow]

What about ex-military and ex-law enforcement? After retirement they must turn in those high capacity mags because then they will be just no good citizens again?

unfortunately not just no good citizens again L E does have some things such as national carry providing they qualify with their firearm I believe yearly not positive.

 

[sheepdip]

luckily the "kid" running the gun didnt know to operate it or the toll would have been higher

 

[drew]

There's a thread on the proposed mag ban: http://www.northwestfirearms.com/showthread.php?t=110575

She had already proposed it (as she does every session) and was using the shooting to help her promote her pet cause.

 

[clearconscience]

Yeah this kind of thing always pisses me off. If you pass laws restricting high cap mags then people will obey it. Wtf?! Well in that sense the gunman wouldn't have entered a gun free zone.
I can't imagine there couldn't be a clearly winable case against violations of our constitutions rights.
1. Your are ok with govt folks having high cap mags, the 2nd A is there for the "people" to keep from being ruled by a tyranical govt. so you want to take away our ways of fighting back effectively.
2. Your punishing the innocent. Your taking away my rights based on what somelse does. Whag happened to innocent until proven guilty?
3. This doesn't work on drugs, alcohol (prohibition), i guess your can names them all since our prisons are full. So how will this work for firearms.

If any guns/ammo laws pass I'll be first to put my name down as a plantiff

 

[clearconscience]

And sign or not I'm carrying a gun. And finally my wife is fully on board.

 

[Swedish K]

There's a thread on the proposed mag ban: Ginny Burdick is going to try to ban high cap magazines again

She had already proposed it (as she does every session) and was using the shooting to help her promote her pet cause.

I think we have a new cause - exporting anti 2A legislators to N Korea then put them on the no fly list.

 

[orygun]

Just saw this on 12 new app
SALEM, OR (KPTV)—
Burdick said even hunters are restricted from using large capacity magazines.

And this makes her a liar at worst, ignorant of the law at the least. (and you would hope a legislator would know the laws)

The law she is referring to only applies to some firearms for hunting some game. Not all firearms. Not all game.

What a waste she is...

The reporter today that asked twice tried to get the sargent doing the press conferences to say it was a military style gun surely got shut down by him. Twice he responded with the answer, "It is not a military arm. It is an AR15 semi-automatic rifle" Good for him.

But the dilweed doctor who was on the radio mentioned that he needed to act with caution because the victim was shot with an "assault rifle". What a Jacka$$. Glad the shooter only had an AR15 and not something like a "real" hunting rifle!

 

[davemata]

Sweet JESUS, MARY, AND JOSEPH!!!! I was THERE at Clackamas Town Center today, and left just prior to the shooting!!! Holy PHLUCK!

Yes I was carrying at the time too. I don't care if I was armed, I am still very glad I was not there at the time.

I carry, but I don't want to shoot anyone, ever.

It's good you missed the incident and you're safe.

 

[davemata]

That's just FR.
That's an Oregon senator? I they create ideas like a CA senator.

Just saw this on 12 new app
SALEM, OR (KPTV)—An Oregon state senator is proposing a bill that could put new restrictions on gun and ammo sales.

Sen. Ginny Burdick sent an email to colleagues in the House and Senate outlining her proposal in the wake of the Clackamas Town Center shooting.

She said the ability of Jacob Roberts to fire off numerous shots from his AR-15 rifle cannot be ignored.

"This terrifying situation exemplifies the danger of large capacity magazines in our community," states the email, which was forwarded to FOX 12 by Burdick. "Large capacity magazines can dramatically increase death tolls and have no legitimate place in our neighborhoods."

Burdick said even hunters are restricted from using large capacity magazines.

Her proposal, which was drafted for pre-session filing for the 2013 legislative session, creates a crime of knowingly selling or transferring large capacity magazines. Specifically, it would prohibit gun magazines with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

The concept creates and exemption for law enforcement and military personnel, according to Burdick.

The penalty for breaking the law would be $6,250 in fines, one year in prison or both.

 

[9mmguy]

A very good reason to carry everywhere these days. I wonder how he got a rifle in without anyone noticing.. Hopefully accurate and reliable details will be out soon.
You would think even one person at the mall would have been conceal carrying. It's a shame that Oregon is too liberal to realize that one sane, trained, and responsible gun owner is enough to stop a threat from an armed mad men. Rome use to require their men to own swords and be proficient in it's use. If we still had that mentality these days this shooting could have been stopped as soon as it began.

Do you seriously believe none of those people in the mall was carrying? Clackamas is about as liberal as Texas. But what's more important, what is Joe CHL going to do with his snubby in .38 special against a crazy psychopath with an AR-15? Who's wearing body armor? In the really long straight concourses of a mall with little cover? With cops on the way, ready to shoot anyone who even looks like he has a gun? Damn right, Joe CHL is going to run because that's the sane thing to do unless there is a golden opportunity.

The whole, "It only takes one responsible gun owner" thing is just as untrue as much of the anti-gun propaganda. In order to take someone out who is already blasting away, one needs to be a) crazy brave and crazy lucky or b) really well trained. The vast majority of all gun owners are neither.

 

[accessbob]

But what's more important, what is Joe CHL going to do with his snubby in .38 special against a crazy psychopath with an AR-15? Who's wearing body armor?

1. It wasn't body armor

At the time of the attack, Roberts was wearing a load-bearing vest -- NOT a bulletproof vest, as has been reported.

2. That's why I carry a .40 and 31 rounds. A snubbie? Yeah, not for me.

3. It is possible for someone to take him down. But, they'd have to be in a position to do so and to have a clear firing lane. Also, the average CHL holder doesn't know how they will react until they are in the thick of it. Someone might not just duck and stay totally down. But that's probably what most would do. It would be risky to try to shoot back. But it isn't something to totally dismiss.

It all comes down to where you are when it happens, who you are with, and what you believe you can do. Those who don't train are probably not going to try. Those who do might not be in a position to try. A LOT of factors come into play.

 

[Trailboss]

My first thoughts would be to protect my family and get them to a safe place. If that means I have to engage the perp then so be it. Only once my family is safe, can I consider protecting others. If others choose to be unarmed and are unable to defend themselves or their families, it doesn't change my priorities. I carry to protect my family first and will do everything I can to keep them safe.

 

[lamrith]

There is no perfect answer, just like actual combat every situation is fluid and ever changing. But this we chl/cpl holder are helpless in active shooter scenario thing gets old. There may have been people carrying, and due to whatever reason they did not react or chose not to due to the circumstances at hand, not to mention THIS time the shooting appears to have lasted less than 1 minute. It was over so fast any cpl holder was probably unable to figure out where he was to consider taking action. I do not know of anyone that has said we have to go (or even should) wading into the fray searching this guy out, but saying we should not even engage if given the opportunity or we could do nothing against an active shooter is folly. If that is the case, why bother carrying at all?

Do you seriously believe none of those people in the mall was carrying? Clackamas is about as liberal as Texas. But what's more important, what is Joe CHL going to do with his snubby in .38 special against a crazy psychopath with an AR-15? Who's wearing body armor? In the really long straight concourses of a mall with little cover? With cops on the way, ready to shoot anyone who even looks like he has a gun? Damn right, Joe CHL is going to run because that's the sane thing to do unless there is a golden opportunity.

The whole, "It only takes one responsible gun owner" thing is just as untrue as much of the anti-gun propaganda. In order to take someone out who is already blasting away, one needs to be a) crazy brave and crazy lucky or b) really well trained. The vast majority of all gun owners are neither.

You just said exactly why you should engage said suspect if the chance arises at all. This is from the other thread:

If you are within range,you and yours are in danger,weather he sees you or not. Bullets go though tables and plants and chairs. The ones you would be hiding behind to save your own a$$

THIS is the point people fail to realize. Fact of the matter is that if you are even remotely close to him, he is a threat to you. He does not have to see you, know you are there or anything, if he shots your direction, unless you are behind a brick/concrete item, you can be hit. For that matter so can the wife and kids with you, maybe even after his round goes thru you as you shield your loved ones trying to get to safety...

If you are within range to engage him and have the means to do so it is in your best interest to do so, it is not heroism or glory seeking, it is you protecting your own life. If you can achieve some sort of advantage or know your personal abilities by all means take the shot, but that is a choice each person must make for themselves. There are reports that people had the rounds from his weapon landing on them, that means they were to the right and behind the shooter. Probably in his blind spot. If you are THAT close why not engage the tool, there is no way you are going to run away and get out of his range, and fact of the matter is you are in perfect pistol range.

We already know now he was not wearing armor, but even if he was do you really think 2 to the chest/back are not going to have ANY affect, what is he Ironman, they just bounce off? Ask any LEO shot in the vest, it hurts like hell, many compare it to taking a fastball or baseball bat in the chest. So you are on target already, hit him 2x, if he does not react at all, or the threat does not stop, change target, low to waist or up to head. What is most important is to know YOUR abilities, true it does not make sense to engage him from over 50yrds with a pistol, but at the same time if you are within pistol range just running away is possibly your worst option to get home safely. This specific guy also was apparently not prepared for the unforseen, since his gun jammed and he then killed himself in less than a minute? If he ended up getting shot he may have ended his life even sooner.

 

[andreys21]

High on bath salts.

 

[carracer]

Following this event, I have been seriously considering changing my carry gun. I'm not confidant I could hit with accuracy much past 10 yards with my LC9. I'm much better with my 1911.

I know in a crowded mall there is a danger of injury to others. However, if it was an active situation, how long to you wait before you act? There will probably never be a moment when it's a perfectly safe shot. Do you let the carnage continue or take the chance?

 

[omenwolf]

Everyone can speculate what could have happened till their blue in the face. Fact is when it comes down to its about the safety of yourself and those with you, you flee. But...... I have done some stupid stuff in the past like chasing down crazy crack head thieves and restraining them till the police arrive. After i thought about it, it was stupid of me to do that but it was second nature to me. That being said, I would secure the safety of my family first but if the assailant was in my vicinity and I had a clear shot I damn well would have taken it, especially if I saw that his modern sporting rifle was jammed.

 

[40calruler]

People who carry can all say they would have stepped in but this is the rare situation we carry for. This is a big part of why we are issued permits to carry a pistol. Everyone who claims to carry and be prepared I really hope that you mean by that that you know your weopon inside and out and practice as often as possible at a shooting range or somewhere legal to shoot. By practice I do not mean shooting at 10 feet and thinking you are a sniper but pushing that paper back to 50 feet and becoming capable of a head shot at the furthest distance possible. You do not want to stand head on 10 feet away from a guy with a AR when you are packing a pistol. You want to and should be listning to your ccw training and take HARD cover and get be patient enough to hold town all of those emotions to wait for a clean shot....If you can not handle that then you should have a LCP. Works fine at 10 feet and it is silly to walk into the range and watch guys with full size pistols that cannot hit the edge of the paper at 30 feet but carry that gun and brag about it. The only time you will know I carry is if you are on the wrong end of my weopon and have put me or others in life threatening danger. That is unless you do not know me except for a nickname in a forum. If you are one of the people running on about how you would have dropped a guy I really hope you mean this by knowing you have the training and experience to do so. Otherwise run..or you will do more harm than good.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Following this event, I have been seriously considering changing my carry gun. I'm not confidant I could hit with accuracy much past 10 yards with my LC9. I'm much better with my 1911.

I know in a crowded mall there is a danger of injury to others. However, if it was an active situation, how long to you wait before you act? There will probably never be a moment when it's a perfectly safe shot. Do you let the carnage continue or take the chance?

Your carry gun is fine for 99.9% of the situations you will encounter.

Changing your plan in order to accommodate the possibility of an extremely rare occurrence is not rational or well thought out.

Why not carry around a lightning rod with an insulated carry handle? Lightning struck a lady in Florida the other day, it might happen to you also.

We, just like the media and anti-guns, laws, etc, overreact to an incident like this because we are all scared that our little safety bubble and status quo are threatened. Our reactions are just not reasonable given the statistics.