Gun pointed at me

[Mainsail]

I think you missed his point, and @IronMonster is a guy you can count on to have your back. Trust me.

That's exactly what I came into the discussion believing.

My point was that someone makes a statement using hyperbole to make a point, and it's a good for that instance. Later, other people seize that exaggerated statement and make it doctrine. These exaggerations do no make us safer.

For example, some people take the rule, "Treat all guns like they are loaded until you confirm it is not" and dumb it down to, "All guns are always loaded". This dumbed down version of the rule is hyperbole to express the importance of checking the gun, and to emphasize the danger. But some people have made the dumb version the "rule". If I'm teaching a new shooter this "rule" and they later see me dry-firing or function checking the gun, then they can only conclude the "rule" is not a rule because only a total maniac would dry-fire or function check a loaded gun. A rule must be inviolate or it's not a rule but a suggestion. In the case of a new shooter, the hyperbole expressed as a rule makes them less safe, not more, because they are led to believe the rules can be ignored when they're inconvenient.

Likewise, unloaded guns do not go off; period. Yes, people who believed their gun was unloaded found out otherwise but repeating this exaggeration does not make us safer or advance our cause. You wouldn't deny that there are people who believe that guns 'just go off' and those are the people that side with the anti-gunners because of it.

IM might be a great guy, but preferring to ignore vs trying to understand says his mind is closed. Or maybe he doesn't know what hyperbole means? I found his reaction odd nevertheless.

 

[jrd541280]

That's exactly what I came into the discussion believing.

My point was that someone makes a statement using hyperbole to make a point, and it's a good for that instance. Later, other people seize that exaggerated statement and make it doctrine. These exaggerations do no make us safer.

For example, some people take the rule, "Treat all guns like they are loaded until you confirm it is not" and dumb it down to, "All guns are always loaded". This dumbed down version of the rule is hyperbole to express the importance of checking the gun, and to emphasize the danger. But some people have made the dumb version the "rule". If I'm teaching a new shooter this "rule" and they later see me dry-firing or function checking the gun, then they can only conclude the "rule" is not a rule because only a total maniac would dry-fire or function check a loaded gun. A rule must be inviolate or it's not a rule but a suggestion. In the case of a new shooter, the hyperbole expressed as a rule makes them less safe, not more, because they are led to believe the rules can be ignored when they're inconvenient.

Likewise, unloaded guns do not go off; period. Yes, people who believed their gun was unloaded found out otherwise but repeating this exaggeration does not make us safer or advance our cause. You wouldn't deny that there are people who believe that guns 'just go off' and those are the people that side with the anti-gunners because of it.

IM might be a great guy, but preferring to ignore vs trying to understand says his mind is closed. Or maybe he doesn't know what hyperbole means? I found his reaction odd nevertheless.

tv
I also do not know what hyperbole is. Running through my ag teachings at school, is that what a steer leaves steaming on a blanket of snow after ingesting a bucket of cob? Or did someone upset the whole space/time contimuen by misplacing one letter? Hyperbull?

 

[Kruel J]

That's exactly what I came into the discussion believing.

My point was that someone makes a statement using hyperbole to make a point, and it's a good for that instance. Later, other people seize that exaggerated statement and make it doctrine. These exaggerations do no make us safer.

For example, some people take the rule, "Treat all guns like they are loaded until you confirm it is not" and dumb it down to, "All guns are always loaded". This dumbed down version of the rule is hyperbole to express the importance of checking the gun, and to emphasize the danger. But some people have made the dumb version the "rule". If I'm teaching a new shooter this "rule" and they later see me dry-firing or function checking the gun, then they can only conclude the "rule" is not a rule because only a total maniac would dry-fire or function check a loaded gun. A rule must be inviolate or it's not a rule but a suggestion. In the case of a new shooter, the hyperbole expressed as a rule makes them less safe, not more, because they are led to believe the rules can be ignored when they're inconvenient.

Likewise, unloaded guns do not go off; period. Yes, people who believed their gun was unloaded found out otherwise but repeating this exaggeration does not make us safer or advance our cause. You wouldn't deny that there are people who believe that guns 'just go off' and those are the people that side with the anti-gunners because of it.

IM might be a great guy, but preferring to ignore vs trying to understand says his mind is closed. Or maybe he doesn't know what hyperbole means? I found his reaction odd nevertheless.

I would hope that the hyperbole and his use of quotations to emphasize it would be obvious to most, but I digress that the use may be lost on some. And by today's standards, most rules seem to be inviolate depending on the individual's feelings or interpretation of said rule.

Huh, I still safety check every firearm that I remove from my safe, knowing full well they are all unloaded and safety checked before being placed there. No rule, suggestion, hyperbole or recommendation. Just me, being a human, and making sure that all checks and balances equate.

 

[Kruel J]

Most accidental shootings happen with "unloaded" firearms. Statistical fact.

And BTW, I completely understood his post immediately without the need for further explanation. Nor did I require a follow up regarding his use of quotations or the obvious hyperbole found within.

 

[jrd541280]

I would hope that the hyperbole and his use of quotations to emphasize it would be obvious to most, but I digress that the use may be lost on some. And by today's standards, most rules seem to be inviolate depending on the individual's feelings or interpretation of said rule.

Huh, I still safety check every firearm that I remove from my safe, knowing full well they are all unloaded and safety checked before being placed there. No rule, suggestion, hyperbole or recommendation. Just me, being a human, and making sure that all checks and balances equate.

Your grandkids may be watching you

 

[Kruel J]

Your grandkids may be watching you

Not quite there yet!

 

[jrd541280]

Plan for it, if the student hasn't learned, the teacher hasn't taught..

 

[Kruel J]

Plan for it, if the student hasn't learned, the teacher hasn't taught..

I just threw up a little. My daughter is 20, I'm 42............

 

[EPS]

I haven't read all the post but just by looking at the last three or four I would say OFF TOPIC

 

[jrd541280]

Lol, go find a grizzly to wrestle eps, it was a rare emotional topic for a bit. Now over, so bring it dude, lol.

 

[Alexx1401]

I was at NW Armory a few years back, looking at some pistols. The guy behind the counter pulled out the one I wanted to look at, made sure it was unloaded and handed it to me, at which point I double checked it was unloaded. As I'm checking it out, I'm aware that the store is very busy - people in every direction. I wanted to line up the sights to get a feel for the sight picture. I picked a spot in the store away from people, made sure no one was there and lifted the gun to look at the sights as I pointed at a shelf on the wall. While I was looking at the sights, another employee, head down in his phone, walked right in front of the muzzle, which I immediately dropped. I told the employee helping me he needed to tell his co-worker not to do that, he said he would.

I'm not a big fan of busy gun stores for this reason. I've been swept more than a few times, it's surprising how many folks get so complacent just because they're handling a gun in a gun store.

It's bad enough when this happens with a place like a shop.A couple decades ago some kook drunk who lived across the street went off one day. His kids called police, he (turns out was not in the house) would not come out. So here come the heavy armed ones to set up. As they are "looking for clown" with all the neighbors watching they fan out. At that time they were armed with Ruger Mini's. A couple of them swept my Wife and I as we were watching. Since I have to assume they were carrying the rifles loaded I told the Wife lets get the hell away from these idiots. She had not even noticed what scared me. This to me just showed some VERY poor training of these guys. If these guys were not in uniform and had done that at a range? They would have been tossed from the place. I have to hope they are given some far better training these days on how to handle the long guns they carry. They must since now days this would be caught on tape and would be all over. Still makes me cringe when I think back on seeing it right in front of me. They were not just sweeping me and my Wife but each other. As tense as they all were I can just imagine what would happen if one accidentally shot one of the others.

 

[Quartermaster]

I was at Cabela's today checking out a piece I was thinking of getting. After 5 mins, my number was called. A guy came over, told him I would like to see this pistol in the showcase. He took it out, safety check it and show me the chamber was empty. Before he handed me the pistol, muzzle was pointed me, then as he handed me the firearm, the muzzle now pointed directly at the guy standing next to me. First thing came to my mind, these guys should know better, right? They are supposed to be experienced with handling firearms especially in a gun shop. When I was done looking at it, I put it down, making sure the muzzle was pointed at a safe direction, the guy pick it up and again pointed the pistol at me again. As he was fiddling with the pistol to put it back in the shelf, he again pointed the muzzle at me and the guy next to me again. Where is the common sense here. Comes to find out he was new. Just started 2 weeks ago.

There was an older lady at the counter of a sporting goods store a while back. Lifelong democrat, never saw the "need" for owning a gun. She was brand new, and the guy behind the gun counter was taking care to ensure she felt comfortable. All guns were cleared. Another employee in front of the counter, who did NOT work at the gun counter leaned in towards her when she gripped one of the guns and yelled,"Take your finger off the trigger!" She dropped the gun and recoiled.

Lessons learned: A gun store, and a firing range are NOT the same thing. Gun stores are a place to LEARN, and be allowed to make some mistakes. You can be careful at both without being a jerk; that woman left, and probably won't be back. People can be taught to respect firearms without the need to fear them, so learn the difference.

If you don't like the service at a particular gun store, you're welcome to leave. Vote with your dollar. The amount of people in FRONT of the counter I see sweeping other customers with guns is mind-boggling considering how many people here seemed to get bunched up about it.

 

[Kruel J]

I haven't read all the post but just by looking at the last three or four I would say OFF TOPIC

Read them all and then reply. BTW, don't most topics here tend to go off topic?

 

[jrd541280]

I was working a job on a small crew near a training tower several years ago on an undisclosed location when I noticed the image of a human eye next to the tower in reverse "osmosis"? I told my foreman that there was a guy at the tower pointing a rifle at me. He, of coarse said "bullsh-t". I said do you see that guy with that gun there? He replied, yes, but he's not pointing at you. I said watch this as I abruptly installed the middle finger of my right hand in front of my center mass. Next thing I heard from my foreman was, where did he go?

 

[IronMonster]

And for the cheap seats, he meant guns that were assumed to be unloaded because they were in a display case or being sold at an FFL.

Hence the quotes.

Who you talkin too man?

 

[Caveman Jim]

I was taught a young age that it doesn't matter if its a toy or a real gun. You never point a gun at anyone or anything unless you plan on using it.

And never dry fire unless using snap caps.

 

[EPS]

Lol, go find a grizzly to wrestle eps, it was a rare emotional topic for a bit. Now over, so bring it dude, lol.

Not in the mood right now carry on lol

 

[EPS]

Read them all and then reply. BTW, don't most topics here tend to go off topic?

Yep I been known to take some off topic at times

 

[Diamondback]

This is why if I'm looking at a gun, I'll make the clerk lock the action open before handing it over, and I'll make sure it's open before returning it. "Confirm CLEAR by sight and feel" by both parties, both ways.

If they won't do it, Hasta La F*** You A**hole, I'm Outta There.

 

[Flymph]

Had a guy load a snap cap and pull the trigger while aiming at me... true story.

I think it's better to play quick draw for the bottle you're holding.