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FFL question on 80% lower transfer

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by bbbass, Apr 15, 2016.

  1. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    I am looking to transfer a complete AR15 carbine to my daughter in Arkansas from here in Oregon. The build is based on a Polymer80 lower that I have milled out. Does anyone know what the requirements are for producing a serial number on it whereby it will all be legal and she can register it thru her FFL?

    Do I make up a number an etch it into the lower? Or does the receiving FFL do that? Anything else I might need to know?

    Thanx in advance!:)
     
  2. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    as far as I know you dont need to put a serial number on it you just put "none" on the form.
     
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  3. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    One of the few ghosts I do believe in.

    :eek:
     
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  4. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'd like to keep it a ghost but...........
     
  5. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Just engrave a serial number on it.

    The ATF has rules on what you need to put on it for a serial number

    " a unique serial number could be composed of at least 4 digits preceded by the initials of the maker. NOTE: alpha characters, e.g., a name, will not be accepted as a serial number. If a name is to be used, there must be at least one numeric character in addition to the alpha characters."
     
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  6. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    I thought that only applied to licensed firearm manufacturers?

    I’m not saying it wouldn’t be easier to transfer it with a number but he mentioned he would rather not and as far as I know its not a requirement.
     
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  7. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    I just want to be legal... don't need a felony!!!!!
     
  8. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    If you wanted to sell an 80% receiver, you need to serialize it from what I understand. I quoted the rules for serializing a 80% receiver so that it can be registered as an NFA item (like an SBR)
     
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  9. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    Not selling, sending it as a gift. I would just ship the thing direct but don't want to get busted so I will follow whatever rules apply. My understanding is that I can keep it for my own without registering it but if I transfer ownership, it must be registered... not sure how ya do that w/o a serial number. If as Koda has indicated she (my daughter) just puts "none" in the place on the form, that is ok. But I also don't want my daughter to go thru a big problem at the receiving end. :)
     
  10. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    "registration" depends on the state. Oregon has no registration. the only federal registration is NFA (maching guns) but sending a firearm across state lines usually means going through an FFL to send it to an FFL in the designated state. I dont know if a serial number is required but I would engrave one like the rules say, have it shipped from a FFL in this state to an FFL in Arkansas where she would pick it up after a background check.

    https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons
    "A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State."

    Gifting is the same as selling to the ATF. and I dont believe there are any differences if it is a family member.

    the only exceptions seem to be if you are mailing it to yourself
     
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  11. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    here are the only bookmarks I have on the subject:
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.92 says only licensed manufacturers have to serialize
    https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0501-firearms-top-10-qaspdf/download

    I haven’t seen a law that says you have to serialize it to sell or gift it, you just cant be in the business of making them to sell them.

    Obviously, the only person that can answer your question is a lawyer... the easiest route would be to just put a number on it. Thats what I would do...

    maybe call both FFLs and ask them if you can just put none?
     
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  12. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    Logic says..

    Since it's a firearm, going from one state to another.... You would need to serialize it because it will need to go through an FFL on the receiving end. Though that defeats the purpose eh?


    Otherwise, wait for her to get to Oregon next time. She can ship a gift to herself right?

    Other options include sending her an 80% and a kit..... stripping the rifle of the lower and shipping it sans lower.
     
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  13. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    call the ffl and ask them if you can put "none"....
     
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  14. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense. However, my purpose was to build a complete rifle for her... something daddy made. The milling was part of the joy. I got a deal on a $50 colored Polymer80 which is what gave me the idea and started the process even tho I was in the middle of a build for myself.

    Having already bought and milled the purple receiver, I would not want to keep it for myself, and I would not wish the task of milling a lower on her or her husband even if they were capable of doing it, which they are not. They lack the knowledge, the tools, and the time to do it even if I paid for a stripped lower for her. Nor do I have the $$$ to pay for a complete lower.

    So although I would liked to have been able to give her a ghost gun it is against the rule whether she is here or not, which she never is. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
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  15. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    Nah, it happens all the time. I've bought several firearms from out of state thru a private party on Gunbroker.com and they were all sent directly to my FFL. So as far as I know, the only requirement is to ship to a FFL. But I will check it out prior to shipping. Thanx!!!
     
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  16. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    Having reviewed my info on 80% lowers... Milling one out is considered "manufacturing" even tho it's not manufacture for sale. Even so, I am allowed to keep it for myself without a serial number provided I do not sell or transfer it. So if atf sees no difference between selling and giving, I will serialize it according to the requirements posted by bolus.

    Thanx everyone for the input!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
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  17. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    "An unlicensed person who is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms may purchase a firearm from an out–of–State source, provided the transfer takes place through a Federal firearms licensee in his or her State of residence."

    [18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.29]
     
  18. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    From the Polymer80 website:

    Can I build and then transfer a finished firearm to another individual?

    Yes, but you'll need to mark the firearm in accordance with 27 CFR 472.92 (formally 178.92) and follow all the laws that are in place today. Protect yourself and don't put a completed firearm in anyone's hands unless you have gone through proper channels and background checks. Following the proper channels will protect us, our family, and our friends, it's also the best way to ensure you can come back to this site again and again as you finish your project. For any firearm transfer it is your responsibility to understand the federal and local laws and how they apply.
     
  19. KeepnitReel

    KeepnitReel Battle Ground Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    What about a family trust ?
     
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  20. bbbass

    bbbass La Grande Well-Known Member

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    Good thought but placing a property in a irrevocable trust requires transfering ownership to the trust. Don't know about a revocable trust. But at any rate I don't have the money for either.:)
     
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