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Gabby ,
Thanks...!
The top gun is a Northwest Trade Gun , by Parker Field , 1834
Its a 20 gauge smoothbore , made for the Fur Trade market or to be given to Indian Agencies ....
They can be found all over the US at various sites and eras.
The Bottom rifle is a J.Henry Trade rifle in .50 caliber , made for the Western Fur Trade...its a "Plains" rifle for sure.
Andy
 
Gabby ,
Thanks...!
The top gun is a Northwest Trade Gun , by Parker Field , 1834
Its a 20 gauge smoothbore , made for the Fur Trade market or to be given to Indian Agencies ....
They can be found all over the US at various sites and eras.
The Bottom rifle is a J.Henry Trade rifle in .50 caliber , made for the Western Fur Trade...its a "Plains" rifle for sure.
Andy

It isn't apparent from the photo that the top is a smooth bore, I would never have guessed it.
Half right eh!
I really wonder if they called that a "Plains" rifle back in the day?
Two nice Flintlocks to be sure, and you do nice work, it shows!
Gabby
 
I really wonder if they called that a "Plains" rifle back in the day?

The term "Plains Rifle" is a newish term...I'd say late 19th century.
Most ledgers , journals and period accounts refer to firearms by type , as in rifle , shotgun , fowler etc...
Or by name as in the gun actually having a name like Old Silverheels , Deerslayer etc...or name of the maker...Like Leman , Dickert , Hawken ...

As a side note the name / term of "Kentucky Rifle" was kinda early ...from the song :
The Hunters of Kentucky...Circa 1820 or so...
Andy
 
Pretty sure the 9mm parabellum, .45acp, 10mm, .40SW, .380acp, are all non-belted, rimless cartridges?

EDIT: What does the .30 Carbine headspace off of? case mouth or extractor? It's also beltless, rimless, unshouldered.
In my .30 Carbine Blackhawk 7.5", new this year, I would guess the case mouth as it has no extractor. My M1 Carbine, likely the same.
 
One that I was reminded of recently is the .440 Cor-Bon. It totally flopped as a cartridge for the Desert Eagle platform, but they just introduced essentially the same thing in the .429 DE. o_O
 
The term "Plains Rifle" is a newish term...I'd say late 19th century.
Most ledgers , journals and period accounts refer to firearms by type , as in rifle , shotgun , fowler etc...
Or by name as in the gun actually having a name like Old Silverheels , Deerslayer etc...or name of the maker...Like Leman , Dickert , Hawken ...

As a side note the name / term of "Kentucky Rifle" was kinda early ...from the song :
The Hunters of Kentucky...Circa 1820 or so...
Andy
Not to skew the thread, but really quickly...isn't the term "Plains Rifle" from the early Buffalo hunters? Given to rifles they preferred for hunting such game?


Dean
 
Not to skew the thread, but really quickly...isn't the term "Plains Rifle" from the early Buffalo hunters? Given to rifles they preferred for hunting such game?


Dean
I'd say "yes"... As the heyday of the Buffalo Hunter was the mid-to late 19th century like I mentioned in the post you quoted...But again most journals from the folks who were there and doing the hunting or witnessing the action , simply said rifles or named them by the maker...

Unless you want to get real picky and talk about the Eastern Buffalo that was hunted by the likes of Daniel Boone , Simon Kenton , The Shawnee etc....those guys were early Buffalo Hunters as in the 1700's...
Andy
 
Always wanted to ask. Andy how do ya feel about paper cartridges? Do you prefer doing it the original way?

I don't mind using paper cartridges , when using a military firearm like a musket or rifled musket...but as a general rule...must civilians did not use paper cartridges in their guns ...even if they had prior service experience.
Andy
 
Is it a hassle to use one instead of without?
No not at all...
You bite or tear the top of the cartridge off , if a flintlock prime first* , then just dump the rest down the barrel , powder end first , paper and all..cap if percussion , then shoot...
* Remember now you are primed and are messing around near the muzzle , keep the muzzle away from your face and body...
Andy
 
I'd say "yes"... As the heyday of the Buffalo Hunter was the mid-to late 19th century like I mentioned in the post you quoted...But again most journals from the folks who were there and doing the hunting or witnessing the action , simply said rifles or named them by the maker...

Unless you want to get real picky and talk about the Eastern Buffalo that was hunted by the likes of Daniel Boone , Simon Kenton , The Shawnee etc....those guys were early Buffalo Hunters as in the 1700's...
Andy
Thanks. =)
 
The 257 Roberts was developed and sold in long actions for many years, the Remington 30 and the Winchester 70. Much later Remington put it into the short action 722.

Bruce
 
...lately I've been wondering how successful a .30 Remington would be loaded with 170gr. Core-Lokt @ 45K CUP...Might have to neck down the .35 case to get there....The .30-.35 Remington?
 
...lately I've been wondering how successful a .30 Remington would be loaded with 170gr. Core-Lokt @ 45K CUP...Might have to neck down the .35 case to get there....The .30-.35 Remington?

They cut down the .30 Remington case and loaded the 200-grain .40 Caliber projectile to make the 10mm Auto Pistol Cartridge. The 30-35 concept would be a good one.
 
I'd say "yes"... As the heyday of the Buffalo Hunter was the mid-to late 19th century like I mentioned in the post you quoted...But again most journals from the folks who were there and doing the hunting or witnessing the action , simply said rifles or named them by the maker...

Unless you want to get real picky and talk about the Eastern Buffalo that was hunted by the likes of Daniel Boone , Simon Kenton , The Shawnee etc....those guys were early Buffalo Hunters as in the 1700's...
Andy

Andy you mentioned Simon Kenton Have you read the book "The Frontiersmen"?
I think by Eckert, it follows another "Simon" Butler who ran away after he mistakenly thought he had killed a man.
His true story is a real revelation of the toughness of the true frontiersmen!
I used to have the book but lost or lent it which is much the same thing sometimes.
Lend it you lost it! :eek:
It was written like a novel rather than a boring history.
 
No not at all...
You bite or tear the top of the cartridge off , if a flintlock prime first* , then just dump the rest down the barrel , powder end first , paper and all..cap if percussion , then shoot...
* Remember now you are primed and are messing around near the muzzle , keep the muzzle away from your face and body...
Andy
I tried paper cartridges at one time, but I was always concerned about, "After Burn". :eek:
I guess it came from the fact that you always swab out the bore of a cannon between shots.:rolleyes:
 
They cut down the .30 Remington case and loaded the 200-grain .40 Caliber projectile to make the 10mm Auto Pistol Cartridge. The 30-35 concept would be a good one.
Thanks.
However, even the 10mm is only loaded to 33K-37.5K (psi, which is different from CUP...is there a conversion? I don't think so), which is about on par with the .30 Remington's stock 38K CUP (to be sure, a guesstimate on my part, since we're dealing with two different rating units here).

So my two questions would be...

1) Is the case capable of sustained loading of 45K CUP?
2)...what would be the point? I'm thinking the whole exercise would give (roughly) .300 Savage performance numbers, but with a slightly heavier bullet....You'd almost have to design a gun to shoot it and sell it as an "unofficial package", kinda like what Remington did with the Model 7 and 7mm-08.

...this is starting to sound like my other idea of a ".22 Short Rifle" round.
I like the idea of both, but maybe their times have passed.


Dean
 
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