Enjoying Your AR Pistol Legally After New Brace Rules Takes Effect.

[Alexx1401]

Does the AFT have a section explaining how all those multiple thousands of legally manufactured "pistols" such as, say, the M&P 15-22 Pistol Length .22 rimfire are now going to be illegal SBRs? Not some scary ghostgunkitmadeinmomsbasement, but legally manufactured, distributed and sold to legal buyers who were APPROVED via FBI background checks to purchase said firearms?

Yes they do. This will not be the first time. Pen guns were one. Another was two shotguns that were legally sold for a good while. Then one day the ATF said they were now an AOW. Anyone who owned one had a set amount of time to register them. After that they were illegal. Is this "right"? No. Last I heard no one was able to win that one in court though. As long as black robes will go along with it they can do anything they wish.

 

[ScatPackLife]

Yes they do. This will not be the first time. Pen guns were one. Another was two shotguns that were legally sold for a good while. Then one day the ATF said they were now an AOW. Anyone who owned one had a set amount of time to register them. After that they were illegal. Is this "right"? No. Last I heard no one was able to win that one in court though. As long as black robes will go along with it they can do anything they wish.

I believe those folks in black robes are one of the core issues with the US. They don't really answer to anyone and they mostly have the governments interest (because they are the government). The less power the people have the more power the government has. So, for now, they limit our physical power. Our political power as citizens is already extremely limited.

 

[American123]

I see a lot more bullpups being bought by people who still want a short gun in rifle caliber, but don't want to deal with the hassle of SBR laws or pay the fee to the crown.

 

[ScatPackLife]

SBR them and be done...........it's $ and a pain, but worth it in the long run to me.

There is more to it then that. One is an SBR you are very limited as to where you can take it. Don't get caught crossing state lines without letting big brother know. You can't toss it in your trunk and drive around with it. Etc. While it's a pistol I can carry it anywhere my CHL allows. So there are a lot of limitations with an SBR that get overlooked.

 

[dinky450]

I see a lot more bullpups being bought by people who still want a short gun in rifle caliber, but don't want to deal with the hassle of SBR laws or pay the fee to the crown.

My 16in mdrx is smaller than my 10.5in ar. My mdrx 20in is the same as my 10.5in. The problem most of the bullpups are not accurate enough.

 

[PiratePast40]

isn't "pistol" and "brace" in this context just a legal work-a-round?
View attachment 1226266
(labelled as 7.5 Pistol with SBA3 Brace)

sorry for my ignorance, but to my eyes, that's a rifle and that's a stock.

What's really the difference between that and this?
View attachment 1226267

Dear citizen,
Don't be concerned. A government minder will be along shortly with the policy de 'jour while they're telling you to pick up that can.

 

[sobo]

So all of those perfectly legal pistols manufactured and sold by companies like S&W will now become illegal because some other human who believes they have a higher moral authority over the lives and property of others, says so? Cool.

Where I come from, they call that authoritarianism...

 

[wired]

Conjecture is fun.

 

[sobo]

I am absolutely familiar with the argument that sheriffs are somehow exempt from or outside the normal rule of law but I have to tell you historically when push comes to shove, sheriffs are going side with government officials above them

It's not that county sheriffs are exempt from, or outside of, the normal rule of law - they are supposed to follow lawful laws just like everyone else. The crux is what laws a sheriff chooses to enforce rests on whether the sheriff considers those laws to be "legal" or "lawful". A "legal" law is a law that has been placed in force in accordance with the established procedures for creating a law. A "lawful" law is, by definition, also legal, with the difference being a lawful law abides by, and operates in concert with, the United States Constitution. It should be noted that not all legal laws do. Witness the extended erosion of the Second Amendment for a multitude of examples of legal laws. Also, what German authorities did to German Jews in the run-up to WWII was all "legal" as well, but I submit that hardly anyone would consider the laws the Nazi regime passed were "lawful".

The concept of Posse comitatus posits that a county sheriff is the supreme authority within his/her county, and as such, has sole discretion to determine what are lawful laws and hence, which ones he/she will support/enforce. The doctrine of posse comitatus goes beyond just letting the sheriff deputize people to assist him/her in rounding up criminals, which is what a lot of people think that's all it is.

The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 prohits the willful use of any part of the armed forces of the United States to execute the law unless it is expressly authorized by the Constitution or an act of Congress. This means that the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and/or yes, even the Space Force, cannot be set upon the citizens of the United States in order for Congress to achieve its desires. The US Coast Guard is exempt from the Act because it operates under a maritime enforcement law. The National Guard operates under the state governor.

I'll have to look it up later but isn't sheriffs having some unique law-enforcement power vested in them that makes them supreme part of the Freeman Movement?

I think you're confusing the freeman movement with the sovereign citizen movement. The freeman movement is prevalent in Commonwealth countries, whereas the sovereign citizen movement is mostly confined to the United States.

 

[Frank RW]

Dear citizen,
Don't be concerned. A government minder will be along shortly with the policy de 'jour while they're telling you to pick up that can.

i'm sure there's something funny there i don't get. want to try that again more clearly for this dummy?
(and hopefully focus on the question this time)

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Posse comitatus

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me to look into that. I had the right idea but the wrong name, it is the "Sovereign Citizen" folks that promote the idea of the magical sheriff

Members of the Posse Comitatus believed that the county was the true seat of government in the United States. They did not deny the legal existence of federal or state governments, but rather claimed that the county level was the "highest authority of government in our Republic as it is closest to the people." The basic Posse manual stated that there had been "subtle subversion" of the Constitution by various arms and levels of government, especially the judiciary. There was, in fact, a "criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice, disfranchise citizens and liquidate the Constitutional Republic of these United States."

The Posse wanted to reverse this subversion and "restore" the Republic through
(1) unilateral actions by the people (i.e., the Posse) and (2) actions by the county sheriff. The sheriff, they argued, was the only constitutional law enforcement officer. Moreover, his most important role was to protect the people from the unlawful acts of officials of governments like judges and government agents. Should a sheriff refuse to carry out such duties, the people (i.e., the Posse) had the right to hang him. In fact, the two most prominent Posse symbols became a sheriff's badge and a hangman's noose.


More here

You are being redirected...

 

[308]

Conjecture is fun.

When one is an all in coomplier, then yes, it is fun to look down on others who are not. We learned that with Covidiot as well.

 

[sobo]

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me to look into that. I had the right idea but the wrong name, it is the "Sovereign Citizen" folks that promote the idea of the magical sheriff

Members of the Posse Comitatus believed that the county was the true seat of government in the United States. They did not deny the legal existence of federal or state governments, but rather claimed that the county level was the "highest authority of government in our Republic as it is closest to the people." The basic Posse manual stated that there had been "subtle subversion" of the Constitution by various arms and levels of government, especially the judiciary. There was, in fact, a "criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice, disfranchise citizens and liquidate the Constitutional Republic of these United States."

The Posse wanted to reverse this subversion and "restore" the Republic through
(1) unilateral actions by the people (i.e., the Posse) and (2) actions by the county sheriff. The sheriff, they argued, was the only constitutional law enforcement officer. Moreover, his most important role was to protect the people from the unlawful acts of officials of governments like judges and government agents. Should a sheriff refuse to carry out such duties, the people (i.e., the Posse) had the right to hang him. In fact, the two most prominent Posse symbols became a sheriff's badge and a hangman's noose.


More here

You are being redirected...

Yes, I heavily edited my single-line response after I posted it.
I just wanted to get the name of the doctrine out to you so you could do some quick research before I went all apeshiit with my post.
But it seems you found what you were looking for.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It's not that county sheriffs are exempt from, or outside of, the normal rule of law - they are supposed to follow lawful laws just like everyone else. The crux is what laws a sheriff chooses to enforce rests on whether the sheriff considers those laws to be "legal" or "lawful". A "legal" law is a law that has been placed in force in accordance with the established procedures for creating a law. A "lawful" law is, by definition, also legal, with the difference being a lawful law abides by, and operates in concert with, the United States Constitution. It should be noted that not all legal laws do. Witness the extended erosion of the Second Amendment for a multitude of examples of legal laws. Also, what German authorities did to German Jews in the run-up to WWII was all "legal" as well, but I submit that hardly anyone would consider the laws the Nazi regime passed were "lawful".

The concept of Posse comitatus posits that a county sheriff is the supreme authority within his/her county, and as such, has sole discretion to determine what are lawful laws and hence, which ones he/she will support/enforce. The doctrine of posse comitatus goes beyond just letting the sheriff deputize people to assist him/her in rounding up criminals, which is what a lot of people think that's all it is.

The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 prohits the willful use of any part of the armed forces of the United States to execute the law unless it is expressly authorized by the Constitution or an act of Congress. This means that the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and/or yes, even the Space Force, cannot be set upon the citizens of the United States in order for Congress to achieve its desires. The US Coast Guard is exempt from the Act because it operates under a maritime enforcement law. The National Guard operates under the state governor.

I think you're confusing the freeman movement with the sovereign citizen movement. The freeman movement is prevalent in Commonwealth countries, whereas the sovereign citizen movement is mostly confined to the United States.

Interesting theory for discussion over a couple beers, along with 'what would happen if gravity was reversed' and if that girl at the Acropolis really was hitting on that one friend that insists she was

 

[Unicykle]

Mine identifies as a shotgun so it should be fine

 

[joken]

If I purchased my lower as a pistol can I put a 16"bbl on it legally, or does it have to stay a pistol?

 

[dinky450]

If I purchased my lower as a pistol can I put a 16"bbl on it legally, or does it have to stay a pistol?

Rifle from pistol is ok pistol from rifle not

 

[CLT65]

Rifle from pistol is ok pistol from rifle not

I have one that I bought on a whim a few years ago because it was cheap. It has the "Blade Stabilizer". I haven't taken to time to look into whether this will be OK or not. I figure when all is said and done, if it doesn't make the cut I'll just take it off and chuck it. I might even just make a rifle out of it. To be honest, AR pistols just aren't my thing. I wouldn't miss it.

Nothing against them for you guys who do like them. They're just not my cup of tea.

 

[dinky450]

I have one that I bought on a whim a few years ago because it was cheap. It has the "Blade Stabilizer".

I have a couple 10.5in that are pretty accurate. They are fun to shoot not to long or short CQ to 300 yards with them and no issues. If something happens I'll strip barrels and do 14.5 pin welded.

 

[American123]

My 16in mdrx is smaller than my 10.5in ar. My mdrx 20in is the same as my 10.5in. The problem most of the bullpups are not accurate enough.

What is "enough" ? I'd take a 16" Tavor over a 10.5 AR for every aspect except legality since a loaded pistol in the car is legal and a rifle isn't.