EMP threats overhyped?

[cigars]

I have fried electrical components with static electricity before. Then i discovered a new invention called a static grounding wrist strap... just saying.

 

[HB of CJ]

So your SHTF vehicle starts and runs after an EMP attack? Like already said better before me ... so what? No infrastructure. No transportation network. No fuel resupply. Unless you have stored fuel, you will eventually run out of gas.

Then consider the target your running vehicle becomes? Too many bewildered idiots with deer rifles. Vehicle hijacking comes to mind. It would be ironic indeed to survive an EMP attack by prepping only to die while your vehicle is successfully jacked.

Again and finally, like already said before me better, what about REPEATED EMP attacks? A dozen or so time over target at irregular intervals designed and intended to destroy what ever left over running electronical stuff there may be?

Yep, a dedicated and severe EMP attack on the USA would eventually depopulate us by 95%. The world may follow. It would indeed be a Pyrrhic Victory. Unless your nation is already on the ropes and its leaders just don't give a shiet. North Korea?

China? Would a big EMP event HELP them also?

But ... and this is where it gets truly thick and scary ... would depopulating the entire World of humans by about 90% be a good idea OVER TIME? Tech would come back quickly? Quickly meaning 100 years or so. Would we be doing Mother Nature a big favor?

Dunno about that. Sobering indeed. Another extinction event. Us by us. Respectfully.

 

[The Heretic]

At least one of mine would still run, probably my smaller truck too - if hit directly by a strong EMP. Maybe my daily driver would.

Not sure if I mentioned it here, but yeah, I would have enough fuel to last for a year or so assuming I am not running my genset. I would not be commuting daily. I would maybe use one of my vehicles once a month at most - depending on what the situation is.

Primarily I would want my vehicle to run for emergencies - if someone gets seriously hurt or ill and there is some kind of medical care to be had in the city, then yeah, I would risk it, if possible.

I would also use my vehicles the way I use them now on the property - to do work - to haul firewood and other work.

 

[HB of CJ]

Believe it or not years ago I retrained as an RN because having good medical skills was considered a good idea in case of a major SHTF. The license has served me very well over 35 years. Good money. Mobility. That and a valid passport.

Now I am old, retired and very Old Cooted. Old Geezer comes to mind also. Fun to sit down and just ponder a bit. Actually a lot. Hunkering down for 30-60 days and just disappearing seems to be a good idea to survive bad SHTF stuff.

Human die back. Sad but there you have it. Wildfire smoke is back.

 

[AK0perator47]

The thing is that an emp like stated is an electro magnetic pulse that will travel outwardly from point of origin like a rock thrown in a pond. It ripples out.

Now circuits have capacitors and resistors. There are other parts but I will not explain the whole circuit. Capacitors hold an electrical charge for the reason of not drawing a bunch of electricity from a power source all at once. Now resistors help regulate the amount of current and power. You don't want a bunch of power cruising through the circuit without any regulation. Certain parts are sensitive and can't have too high of voltage. They also don't want current to be bidirectional. It has to flow from negative to positive. If you were to reverse it then the circuit piece would cease to work.

The emp is going to create more current in the circuit than what it is designed to hold and will not flow in the correct direction.

About as easy as I can describe it. If you want to continue to be bored with the subject matter of electronics send me a pm.

It is not overhyped. Extremely easy to take place and not just from an man made atomic device.

 

[The Heretic]

It isn't so much the capacitors and resistors that are the most vulnerable, it is the diodes, transistors, logic gates and memory in ICs.

Also, discrete electronics, while still vulnerable, are generally less vulnerable than integrated circuits.

Beyond that, EMP is line of sight, so if you are in a valley/ravine or a hill is between you and the EMP source, you will get hit by less of the pulse, or maybe none of it. Also, some buildings will act as at least a partial shield - e.g., a metal skinned building, like my shop, or a concrete building with rebar or other steel reinforcements.

EMP is like any other electromagnetic signal - distance matters, line of sight matters, terrain matters and other things that interfere with a signal matter - such as buildings.

Height also matters. If someone set off a nuke at ground level in downtown Portland, I would get very little if any EMP because of all of the terrain between here and there. Indeed, Hillsboro and Beaverton and the west side of the West hills, would probably not see any EMP.

If someone set off a nuke 100 miles up, then we would see some EMP, but still there would be significant number of devices that would not get any or enough EMP to disrupt their function simply because they are not line of sight to the blast.

In short, it isn't the end of the world and as with many things, how it will affect you, just depends on a lot of factors - where you are, what you have, where the blast is, how high up, whether it is meant as a conventional nuke or one made purposely for EMP, how large the blast is and so on.

 

[The Heretic]

So yeah - EMP is overhyped.

 

[AK0perator47]

So yeah - EMP is overhyped.

As a whole yes we really won't have any issues unlike the Midwest. The other thing is the sun has solar flares and can cause us grief. And yes you are right there are other parts to the circuit board more sensitive.

 

[3MTA3]

The EMP Commission web site is down, but I uploaded a copy of their 2008 report to DropBox here: Dropbox - A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

You really should read this report if you are concerned about the expected results of an EMP. There is a LOT of misinformation on the subject as it is a popular vehicle for dystopian fiction. It's better to focus your preps on what is scientifically known and in many cases tested as opposed to speculation.

Communications will be the biggest problem. Generally speaking most electronics have already been adequately shielded as have the FABs that make IC's. Communications are at risk primarily due to antennas or cabling that act as antennas that induct the EMP into an electric charge and then act as a conduit to the discreet semiconductors and integrated circuits.

My suggestion is to get your amateur radio license. The Technician exam is very easy to pass and in an emergency anybody is legally authorized to use amateur radio bands, licensed or not.

Handheld radios should be stored in an old microwave. Mobile and base station type devices should have the antennas disconnected when not in use. All of these devices can be powered by 12 Volt car batteries if you have the right adapters. I put marine terminals on a car battery that connect to a 12V accessory outlet, then have adapters that have matching 12V plugs.

Other types of comms that have short ranges like walkie-talkies and Nextel phones should be stored in your old microwave as well along with recharging adapters and solar chargers. The Nextel phones have some significant advantages in that they use frequency shifting techniques that prevent others from hearing your conversations. You can get details here: iDen/ISm Secure Comms.... UpDate... | Survival Monkey Forums I also wrote a programming configuration guide here to take all the guesswork out: The Simple Simian's Guide to Motorola i355 DirecTalk Configuration | Survival Monkey Forums

If cell phones and other communications are out these alternatives will help you find out what is happening as well as to coordinate things locally such as neighborhood security.

I strongly use those interested in preparedness to check out survival monkey (survivalmonkey.com)

 

[HB of CJ]

EMP may be UNDER HYPED. A gross non accurate example or comparison MAY be to build a five level house of playing cards, then reach over with a toothpick and gently drop one of the top cards. What happens? A classic cascading event. The whole big tall house of cards MAY come down. If not, use a diner fork instead and push down two cards. Then three. Eventually the entire house of cards will collapse. Once it starts it falls hard ALL THE WAY DOWN to a thin mess of chaos.

Another very non accurate comparison may be the function ability of a cell phone service during a big smoky regional then kinda close wildfire. One percent using the system? Runs OK. Three percent? Slow and non reliable. Only five percent? The system totally fails. We experienced this during the epic 2001, (or soss) Biscuit/Florence wild fire. Cell phone systems are designed to be fail easy. Many other poor examples. Communication. Transportation. Distribution. Grid Power.

Long list. Any small disruption quickly becomes a big disruption. Starts small. Quickly becomes big. Then catastrophic. Thirst. Hunger. Grounded. (no transport) Then aggravation. Then Anger. Then Panic. Then mayhem. ... ... The last North Korean ICBM reached 500 miles high. Went over 2000 miles down range. They might have a deliverable H bomb? Could they have a deliverable EMP H Bomb? The Sum of all Fears. EMP is real. How to defeat it? Dunno that.

Respectfully.

 

[3MTA3]

@HB of CJ The CME* that hit Carrington was powerful enough to distort train tracks, so a CME could be powerful enough to give mankind a real setback, but so far man is unable to produce a large enough EMP to do any real damage beyond communications including network connected devices. A man made EMP might even be a blessing since if all the smartphones suddenly went dead the average IQ of the US would double overnight.

If you are preparing for a man made event consider the solutions above. I have enough stand alone comms to provide security for my part of the neighborhood, and with amateur radio i can relay messages to emergency management as well as hospitals. There are two active emergency radio services manned by amateurs: RACES and ARES (ARES RACES FAQ). I'm participating in an exercise next weekend to support a 100 mile footrace that's effectively an emergency communications drill.

There is nothing you can do to prepare for a natural event short of learning to live without all the modern conveniences that depend on electricity and preparing for enough food, water, and medicine to last long enough for a recovery.

* Edited from EMP to CME (Coronal Mass Ejection)

 

[The Heretic]

A CME is quite different than EMP

The Difference Between an EMP and a CME

 

[Siglvr]

It's underhyped in my view. I just re-read my earlier post. It's accurate, but with words we often abbreviate. As I did there. Although I feel that we most likely took out the current threat of an EMP from a North Korean satellite (without knowing for certain), I should mention that I have prepared for an EMP or Carrington burst more than anyone I know. The prep is ongoing and extensive. I've tryed to cover the obvious, like stockpiled water, food and a Farraday cage with electronics. But it goes deeper. Trying to both learn about and plant native edibles and I have initiated trying to implant mussels near our beach house. There are already plentiful native crab, clams and oysters, but it would be nice to have an easier to access protein source. I suspect that the deer I've been encouraging will be long gone when they're needed

 

[Tony617]

I saw this movie on Amazon Prime. It was a OK movie. If a real EMP event happened it will likely be worse.

 

[revjen45]

There is no known EMP device that will kill the 1949 Suburban in my driveway.

 

[Rickenbacher39]

I'm not worried about an EMP at all.
It just won't happen.
My doctor said my pacemaker is 100% protected agai................>>>>ZZzzzzzaaaaaaaaapp<<<< <<<<thud>>>>

 

[3MTA3]

Anything that has something that will act like an antenna attached to it can get fried. Not having a pacemaker, do they transmit/receive information and instructions? How do they get power? Induction or really long life batteries?

 

[MannyGlocks]

OCD is rampant in this thread...EMP hhhhppppfffff...it's the poles reversing that gets my OCD vote or no wait, the financial markets going kablooey...no, it's farmers going on strike causing massive food shortages and starvation, no it's a super volcano erupting causing sun block and no crops growing or somethings gonna cause havoc and prepping will do no good if yer dead from mexican beer virus.

 

[The Heretic]

Anything that has something that will act like an antenna attached to it can get fried. Not having a pacemaker, do they transmit/receive information and instructions? How do they get power? Induction or really long life batteries?

It depends on the pacemaker, but my understanding is that the modern ones do have some form of being updated and sharing info; that was how my mother's pacemaker worked.

 

[Siglvr]

If you look at places like Los Angeles and Las Vegas, once the water stops magically coming out of taps most everyone will be dead soon soon after. So an EMP in August when it's 117 F in the shade would be tough to survive. Ever try and walk in that kind of heat? I have, and I can do pretty good mileage in normal weather and find that even a few miles I'm dehydrated as you can't drink water fast enough to replace what you are using. I'd wait till night and try it. Most wouldn't, and the homes would be sweltering with no AC.

For Vegas, Colorado river is a bit over 20 miles. Lots of folks could make that in the winter. However, within days of the excrement all over soon mixing with the remaining water most of them (that is, the 99 percent without a water filter and no way to disinfect water) will soon be dropping from dysentery from dirty water.

In the Northwest it would not be nearly so bad, we have plentiful trees for fires and plentiful and often multiple water sources often a short walk away. Not to say that drinking out of the Willamette river or Lake Washington would be pleasant as none of the upstream sewage plants would be operational, but at least the plentiful wood could boil it.