Do we really need months of waiting and an expensive stamp to own an SBR?

[arakboss]

I have read (not on the ATF site or a letter) that the LOP must be 13" or less for a 'brace'. Not sure on the logic of that.

As for the current admin being 'gun friendly', I haven't seen one of those in decades. They claim to be such, but when the rubber meets the road, an evidence of that is superficial if not totally lacking. But your point is that political support (or rather, low level of animosity) could be much worse and we are still seeing problems.

I think the logic behind the LOP of brace is that they don't want it to be comfortable or easy to shoulder it. That was mentioned in the letters but I did not see an actual max or suggested measurement. It appears that the measurement of the sig brace was acceptable but that doesn't help much. It is worrisome that this is happening now, along with attack on bumpstocks. Doesn't bode well for future gens.

 

[old11bravo]

I've built many AR pistols. Most all of them have had 10.5" barrels but nothing shorter than that. I can attain consistent repeat hits on 12" round gongs from 220 yards with iron sights. That said, I use quality components and pay particular attention to the barrel and the fire control group. The Geissele FCG's are my go to. So to me there is absolutely no question of the ability of an AR pistol to match that of an SBR.

 

[old11bravo]

I have read (not on the ATF site or a letter) that the LOP must be 13" or less for a 'brace'. Not sure on the logic of that.

Logic. There is no such animal when it comes to uneducated people drafting and/or supporting laws applying to things of which they know nothing.

 

[dogface2000]

PURE gold!

My pistolero "trunk monkeys"...

View attachment 485026

Those are sweet

 

[Caveman Jim]

PURE gold!

My pistolero "trunk monkeys"...

View attachment 485026

Nice air buffer tube on the bottom one bub...

 

[L84Cabo]

It's the journey, not the destination. Some of us like waiting month after month after impossibly long drawn out month.

Plus, once we finally do receive that stamp we gather together, look your direction, and quietly snicker to ourselves "brace".



E

I don't care who you are...that right there is some funny shhhhhh...err...stuff. You Sir, have won the interwebz for today!

 

[American123]

A Magpul STR stock with a limb saver pad is THE BEST and if the NFA laws weren't as dumb as they are i'd happily have a SBR instead of AR pistol. The SA3 offering works well enough that it makes jumping through the hoops for an SBR uneccessary from my perspective, the legal opportunities of it being classified as a pistol are greater than if it were classified as a rifle.

 

[Member 34319]

I honestly feel like the cat is out of the bag on this one.

There is a substantial number of these out there now.

More than any type of bump stock could dream of.

It is not like the bump stock. It would be hard, very hard to backstep these.

They aren't having the easiest time backpedaling the bump stocks.

Even if they come out and literally state that shouldered pistol braces make it an SBR, they are still going to sell. Folks just won't film themselves using it incorrectly anymore. Just as they did on the last flip flop.

So long as it is not considered a stock and legal to place onto a pistol, even if shouldering it is made illegal, they will sell and be installed. As well as shouldered when the owner is alone.

 

[saxon]

L.O.P. the brace and a standard stock are or on some models the exact same, there is not A.T.F. rule on it.
if you are going to spend $150 on a brace spend the other $50 and gat a stamp, at least then you don't have to be looking over your shoulder to see if some one is watching to see if you shoulder it... you are tax stamped approved to do as you please

 

[American123]

Eh, SBR laws are pretty dumb. A pistol AR doesn't suffer the same transportation constraints as an SBR. As silly as the laws may be it's funny how the notion that keeping a loaded rifle in a car is illegal but a pistol is ok with a permit. (Permits are another way of taxing a right)

I think the founding fathers would slap us 'patriots' sideways for putting up with the bologna that has been allowed to pass. I'm sure Washington and Jefferson would laugh at the notion that carrying a loaded rifle/shotgun in the most common method of transportation of the age would be an illegal act in the country they built.

 

[bgdawgrr]

But....an AR pistol can do many more things a SBR can't.
I can keep a loaded pistol in my car and not run afoul of the law or hunting regulations. I can conceal my pistol. Don't have to file paperwork when I travel out of state. I don't have to worry about putting the wrong upper on a lower by accident.
Heck, I don't even have to bring papers along or have special engraving.
I'll trade that for a vertical foregrip option and a "funny looking" brace.

 

[WoodsPlinker]

The market is good at working around roadblocks produced by our government.

Imagine the innovation and advancements in quality of life and technology if the industry didn't have to waste so much time working around roadblocks...

 

[The Heretic]

The market is good at working around roadblocks produced by our government.

Imagine the innovation and advancements in quality of life and technology if the industry didn't have to waste so much time working around roadblocks...

Very true. I often wonder why it took so long for binary triggers to come to market for ARs and now for other semi-auto rifles. Ditto with pistol braces. Then there is the whole 'pistol' genre for rifles. Those laws have been around for decades, and we are only now seeing the innovation. E.G., early bullpups were made in the early 1900s, but they didn't really get popular until well after WWII - one could say until after the Vietnam war or later.

It usually takes one person being successful with an innovative idea and then everybody and their dogs jumps in with variations/improvements of that idea, and that sparks other innovations.

 

[Diamondback]

@The Heretic I suspect part of it may be because it took this long for the bureaucratic insanity to drive people to the F*ckyou Point. Now that I have EPL capability down, why would I EVER build an SBR that has to go on paper, when I can build a pistol that can stay completely "ghost" and does virtually everything that the paperwork-inflicting option will? And oh by the way, even does MORE, because my CPL allows "megapistols" but not SBR's?

 

[The Heretic]

I also imagine that a major part of the spread of innovation in the last few decades is that the internet spreads the word and facilitates the marketing and sale of that innovation. Being an old codger that spends a lot of time on the internet I can't help but compare to all the digging I used to have to do to find info on products/tech/etc., compared to just googling or asking about something on the internet today and finding it within seconds to hours, vs. days to months before.

 

[Diamondback]

That too... easier communication and more rapid spread of ideas has been a double-edged sword. That said, if the People of the Gun had *not* had the Digital Revolution as a comms enabler, we would probably have lost a LOT more ground in '94 and since...

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

theres plenty of illegal SBRs out there without a tax stamp. guess who has them? people who dont obey laws.

 

[Diamondback]

It can be argued, nothing is legal if the judges or new law say it isn't. The current wave is to say, can not posses. Their idea of a loophole is any law they don't like.

I have seen an uptick with police agencies across the country sporting AR pistols during tv news footage. I ask, why not SBRs? They have laws supporting them breaking the law (speeding, assault, burglary), why would they need a tax stamp?

One other thing: They may be tax exempt, but their agencies have to go through the registration paperwork same as us.

 

[The Heretic]

One other thing: They may be tax exempt, but their agencies have to go through the registration paperwork same as us.

And they probably have to keep closer track of an SBR or other NFA firearms and have better security for them too. Even if they don't have to, I think that dept. policy would be stricter.

 

[jordanvraptor]

I had SBR'd a Thompson M1A1 and it was a pain making it and a pain selling it. Not worth the trouble to me. These were much easier.