Defending your dog

[Grendel65]

And who bears the responsibility of the 'constant vigilance' you speak of? If the owner does not then they need to be prepared for the outcome which might be a dead dog deposited on their property.

It is 100% the owners responsibility, but just like other bad things that happen, you have a responsibility to protect yourself as well. In the circumstances of the original post, the gun owner was 100% within his rights, so far as I am concerned. If one of my animals acted as those did, I would expect nothing less.

My point is that you CAN NOT expect animals to act rationally, and thus owners and the public must always be on their appropriate guard. Never trust any animal 100%.

 

[RVTECH]

My point is that you CAN NOT expect animals to act rationally, and thus owners and the public must always be on their appropriate guard. Never trust any animal 100%.

So then why would you even OWN something as irrational as a Rot or a pit? Why not have something like a Labrador or Golden Retriever - remember you saying I don't know anything about dogs? Well I HAVE owned the aforementioned and they are the most well behaved, regal animals of the dog world - great animals - and nothing like 'Rotts' or 'Pitts'

 

[Grendel65]

So then why would you even OWN something as irrational as a Rot or a pit? Why not have something like a Labrador or Golden Retriever - remember you saying I don't know anything about dogs? Well I HAVE owned the aforementioned and they are the most well behaved, regal animals of the dog world - great animals - and nothing like 'Rotts' or 'Pitts'

LOL, tell that to the Cop that was attacked by a service dog Golden Retriever. ALL animals do things that make no sense to humans.

How about we settle this with an independent study, from a completely unbiased Society that has literally "no dog in the fight"? There is a Society that has established the criteria for aggressiveness in dogs. It is so respected that insurance companies use it to determine what kinds of dogs they will charge extra to cover. It's called the American Temperament Test Society.

"According to the American Temperament Test Society (2010-2013), 804 American Pit Bull Terriers were tested and 695 passed. This means that 86.4% of Pit Bulls tested by the ATTS had a good temperament. Pit Bulls pass rating was above 121 other breeds of dogs, including Golden Retrievers!"

Labs were a bit better than Goldens or Pits, their pass ratio was 92%, so I'll give you one and take one. Goldens were at 84.9%.

In fact Pits outperformed 121 recognized breeds on the test. And the sample is large enough that it is statistically relevant.

And Staffordshire Bull Terriers, well they were over 90%, almost the same as Labs!

German Shepherds and Rottweilers were both in the 84-85% range.

Perception plays a huge part, and the media has twisted this issue to no end. They love Hillary too, so I guess that makes sense.

For those of us that have dealt with Bullies of one variety or another, we recognize the huge personalities that they have, their dedication to their owners, and their willingness to do just about anything to please them. Other breeds may be a lot like that, but the little differences can be huge.

 

[Raidingtime]

We have had 3 Akitas in our extended family, all raised with kids around. ALL of them, repeat ALL of them at some point attacked a kid who was a family member (different kids in different families) for no apparent reason, and all of them were "retired". As a breeder of hunting hounds I can tell you that genetics DO make a difference in behavior. Some houndsmen will breed an "alligator" dog because they think that aggressive temperament denotes fearlessness. But for most if us, "alligators" (aggressive towards other hounds and people) usually go for a one way walk in the woods. Owning an "alligator" hound is a fast way to lose friends and go broke paying for damages.

Can confirm. Neighbor has about 10 Akitas. They're all horrible dogs.

 

[Ura-Ki]

For those that believe the Retrievers are such wonderful family dogs that would never hurt another living sole, you couldn't be more wrong! I was walking my Golden one nice summer eve when out of no where some dumb kid on a bike rode past us, My golden was just as surprised as I and he bit that kid bad on the leg and tore a long ragged gash!!!!! I have never seen, or even heard of a Golden doing something like that, but he did! I had one hell of an investigation done to determine the cause and fault, which I took full responsibility for! In the end, the Kid's folks were found negligent for allowing such a young kid out and about by him self with out supervision, BUT, That bite cost me $11,000 in damages for the medical, and my dog was taken in for observation and that included what amounts to abusive actions toward my dog to see how he reacted! In the end, I was allowed to keep the dog, but I never took him out for walks when Kids would be about! My Golden had never once before that day, EVER acted in any way what so ever, aggressive to any one, and after that day, he never did again, BUT, all it took was ONCE!!!! The Sheriff deputy's and Animal Control were just as shocked as I that My Golden had Bit, but it can happen!!! Point is, ALL dogs have the equipment and the instinct, and all it takes is one little thing to trigger a bite, and then all hell descends down on your shoulders!

 

[Grendel65]

We had a collie who did something similar. She was always around our kids and the neighbors, never had so much as a worry, and she would herd toddlers away from the street. She was sitting in the driveway when a neighbor child came by. The child was behind her, and the childs older sibling said that the collie yelped, then snapped at his brother, causing a gash on his forehead. There was no bite mark, just a single puncture and drag wound. We paid for the ER visit. The childs older brother was sure that his sibling had stepped on her tail or leg, but no adults witnessed it.

Its why I honestly believe that animals do what they do for their own reasons, not always something humans can figure out.

 

[WAYNO]

Ya know, dogs are strange people. I've seen too many times, the most docile, loving dog in the world, for whatever reason, flip out and bite someone or another dog for no reason we could ever know. I have a young niece, that out of the clear blue and for no reason, the neighbors dog attacked her, and made hamburger of her face. She knew the dog very well. Lots of plastic surgery, and even had to go thru rabies treatment, as the neighbor shot his own dog on the spot and threw it in the river. Ya just never know when the alpha wolf gene is gonna momentarily surface in any dog.

Over and over, I've been in places where a group of friends all elect to bring their own dogs. Camping trips, hunting trips, fishing trips, and even sporting events come to mind. Since everybody's dog is well behaved, (yeah, right), the dogs are all allowed to run free. And there are constant dog fights. And the biggest, meanest looking dog in the group always always gets the blame, even if he was minding his own business the whole time til he just had enough of the crap dished out by the testosterone-laden but better looking smaller dogs.

I'd bet in most cases, the owner of a dog that might get hurt by somebody defending themself from the dog would not ever understand why anybody would feel the need to neutralize his dog. Everybody's dog is perfect, and could never hurt anybody.

Lotsa years ago...I was bank-fishing on the Clackamas. A vehicle pulled up with two young fellers and a dog. And I didn't think they were up to no good. They all got out to shoot the breeze, and for whatever reason, their dog instantly hated me. He was growly, his teeth were bared, his hackles were up, and he kept coming at me trying to find an opening. The guys apologized, but made no attempt to control the dog or put the dog back in their truck. This happened long enough, and with no help from the dog owners, I told them put the dog in the truck right now, or I will shoot him. I think they thought I was nuts, but they took me seriously and left. I'm glad they did, because at that moment, I didn't have a gun on me.

I believe in most, or very close to all cases, if you shot a dog that was attacking your dog, the owner of the offending dog would absolutely believe his dog was the victim.

WAYNO.

 

[NCW_Robert]

Ahh dogs, no end to the issues dogs will cause you. Been a dog owner all my life, been bit, had my dogs do stupid stuff like rip open the neighbors dog as the neighbor was walking her dog up the hill and "NOT" on our property. Neighbor came to the door and my wife starts crying, as in tears. She is like that and loves all dogs. Neighbor was kinda taken aback by my wife's compassion so she decided to just let it go. Good thing as hubby is an attorney...

That was about 7 yrs ago with my big ol white Germain shepherd Sandy, shes in doggy heaven now, very cool sweetheart of a dog, would not hurt a fly except for when she, for reasons only known to her ripped open the neighbors dog.... WTF?

I got two bite size little Shelties, male and female now. Male has an attitude problem, thinks he can kick the lower neighbors rots butts. Right, 21lbs against 130 lbs. Little psycho is what he is.

Shesh, does not help when your dog is bite size but thinks he rules the world and is constantly trying to antagonize every other dog in the county.

Not worried about him and people, more worried he is finally going to succeed in convincing the Rots to come on up and eat him & his little sister for dinner some day.

...

 

[ikemay]

Most city ordinances state that your dog has to be on a leash AND in control. So, even though a dog is on a leash, it still has to be under control of the owner. So that means those (dumb imho) retractable leashes would not fulfill the second part of most city ordinances. Hard to control something that's 10-12 feet away from you.

I have seen dogs jump out of the back of pickup trucks to attack other dogs that were on leashes. I have seen labs, standard poodles (which are large) blue healers, and chihuahuas attack other dogs. A dog is a dog, regardless of size, it is still a threat.

I'm not saying this to provoke anyone, or try to make myself out to be macho or trigger happy. But, if your not leashed dog viciously attacks my leashed and under control dog, I will not hesitate to kill your dog. I love animals, but vicious ones need to be put down. If my dog did that to another dog, I would put it down myself.

Now, if it's just a little butt sniffing dust up ....... well that happens even amongst the best of butt sniffing friends. But a charging, attacking dog is quite another matter.

 

[Mountainman38]

Can confirm. Neighbor has about 10 Akitas. They're all horrible dogs.

Got bitten by an Akita. Also a St. Bernard. Also an ankle biter the size and shape of a rat.

Had a Rottweiler that was joyful, loving, and the most sweet tempered dog I've ever known.

Just wanted to chime in.

 

[Grendel65]

Can confirm. Neighbor has about 10 Akitas. They're all horrible dogs.

Which makes me believe its not the breed, but the owners that are the issue. Remember, dogs share 99.9% of wolf genes, so dogs themselves probably share 99.99% of their genes across breeds. That different 1/100th of 1% is likely not an "aggressive" gene, but the differences in appearance, weight, etc.

Owners are the issue, and until we accept that logic, we are simply pushing off the owners responsibililty.

 

[mjbskwim]

There was a guy out at the Steilacoom park that had an Akita. He was my age so not a kid. He says 'Gee I don't know why she's aggressive like that'
I kinda wanted to cuff him in the head and ask if he had looked up this 120# dog he had bought(as a puppy).
Majestic dogs for sure but not for a beginner .
At least most Akita owner I have met knew it was the breed and they were hoping for theirs to be somewhat civil.
It is the breed for what ever dog you buy. Border collies are smart,the owner does not make them that way. Rotties are smart and watch everything that is going on.
The owners did not make them that way
Labs retrieve (except when mixed with a GSP) and think everyone is there to see them, the owners don't make them that way.

 

[Grendel65]

There was a guy out at the Steilacoom park that had an Akita. He was my age so not a kid. He says 'Gee I don't know why she's aggressive like that'
I kinda wanted to cuff him in the head and ask if he had looked up this 120# dog he had bought(as a puppy).
Majestic dogs for sure but not for a beginner .
At least most Akita owner I have met knew it was the breed and they were hoping for theirs to be somewhat civil.
It is the breed for what ever dog you buy. Border collies are smart,the owner does not make them that way. Rotties are smart and watch everything that is going on.
The owners did not make them that way
Labs retrieve (except when mixed with a GSP) and think everyone is there to see them, the owners don't make them that way.

My experience is that all dogs are smart, their owners maybe not so much. I've never seen an untrainable dog, but they all have the potential to go "off track" and create havoc under the right (or wrong) circumstances.

My Pits retrieve, and my male LOVES water retrieving. We didn't have to teach it, I just threw the toy in the water and he went in. The female would avoid it, unless he is retrieving, then she gets competitive and goes after it too. He's a better swimmer, but she has figure out how to dunk him and make him let go of the toy! None of that was taught, dogs have intelligence and dog personalities (dogality?, canality?) and so that must be controlled and channeled by the human in their life.

BUT>>>>Animals are animals, and they do stuff for THEIR reasons!

 

[JamesG]

I have owned Bully breeds for over 20 years and they are great but you better know some folks are going to target you and your dog just because of the way they look. My dog is my buddy but if he attacked another dog on a walk or off of our property I would not blame the other person for doing whatever they need to do to protect their pet. There are so many dogs that are much more people aggressive than pits and other bully breeds. The Fila is probably at the top of the people aggressive list. I have never had a pit or American Bulldog that was worth a darn as a watch dog because they are so people friendly.
Thanks:
James

 

[Grendel65]

I have owned Bully breeds for over 20 years and they are great but you better know some folks are going to target you and your dog just because of the way they look. My dog is my buddy but if he attacked another dog on a walk or off of our property I would not blame the other person for doing whatever they need to do to protect their pet. There are so many dogs that are much more people aggressive than pits and other bully breeds. The Fila is probably at the top of the people aggressive list. I have never had a pit or American Bulldog that was worth a darn as a watch dog because they are so people friendly.
Thanks:
James

LOL! So true, my wife says ours would show a thief where the silverware was AND make sure he could carry it all!

I too would do whatever it took to protect my dogs, and would understand if another owner had to make that decision if my dogs were attacking.

 

[Raidingtime]

Which makes me believe its not the breed, but the owners that are the issue. Remember, dogs share 99.9% of wolf genes, so dogs themselves probably share 99.99% of their genes across breeds. That different 1/100th of 1% is likely not an "aggressive" gene, but the differences in appearance, weight, etc.

Owners are the issue, and until we accept that logic, we are simply pushing off the owners responsibililty.

Good point. Honestly I don't blame the dogs for their behavior. Their owner has that many dogs confined in a small inner city backyard and run down house. I would probably be going ape bubblegum too if I was living in their conditions.

Still doesn't make my animosity towards those K9s any less. I'd like to be able to hangout in my backyard without be constantly barked at one of these days.

 

[Grendel65]

Good point. Honestly I don't blame the dogs for their behavior. Their owner has that many dogs confined in a small inner city backyard and run down house. I would probably be going ape bubblegum too if I was living in their conditions.

Still doesn't make my animosity towards those K9s any less. I'd like to be able to hangout in my backyard without be constantly barked at one of these days.

Understand! I've been in that situation. Maybe they need you to feed them some treats! I had success with a neighbor dog that loved howling. I started giving him a treat whenever I was outside, and pretty soon he came to the fence to get his treat, then I would "shush" him and he'd go lie down. I was actually suprised it worked, but then realized all he wanted was a little attention. However, I can't figure out how to make that work with a bunch of dogs!

 

[mjbskwim]

LOL! So true, my wife says ours would show a thief where the silverware was AND make sure he could carry it all!

I too would do whatever it took to protect my dogs, and would understand if another owner had to make that decision if my dogs were attacking.

Hahaha so cute!
Till he kills the neighbor dogs and cats.
Most pits are people friendly. I've seen it many times.
But boy oh boy keep other dogs or small animals away.
And YOUR children would never do anything like the teacher said they did. Not pointing this at anyone in particular. Just most owners won't accept their dog or child might do wrong.
Some dogs are inherently more aggressive than others
It is what it is

 

[Grendel65]

Hahaha so cute!
Till he kills the neighbor dogs and cats.
Most pits are people friendly. I've seen it many times.
But boy oh boy keep other dogs or small animals away.
And YOUR children would never do anything like the teacher said they did. Not pointing this at anyone in particular. Just most owners won't accept their dog or child might do wrong.
Some dogs are inherently more aggressive than others
It is what it is

Like the neighbors lab did to their own cat, you mean? Our oldest pit had lots of opportunities to kill neighborhood cats that wandered into our yard, she jumped them, but she never once punctured them. She'd get them in her mouth, they would cut her with claws and teeth, but she never once hurt one. While we had her at the vet one time getting her wounds patched, we asked and he said, "she is playing, the cats just don't understand the message!" Can't say I blame them, though she never left the yard, they were always on her territory.

 

[mjbskwim]

So the pits have influenced the other local dogs
Seen that before too