David Pyles Medford Update 4-9-2010

[tionico]

title of the thread I posted earlier this evening:


another seemingly innocent man and his guns taken


under Legal and Political

 

[Blitzkrieg]

They used to be called "Peace Officers", and were civil servants to keep the peace. My dad was one. Now they are "Law Enforcement Officers". Some of them are bad apples who misinterpret the law and don't keep the peace - the servant part has been thrown under the bus. I've been around long enough to see the change.

Exactly

 

[Father of four]

Any updates on Mr.Plyes and Medford Police about this incident? A court date?

 

[ZachS]

Any updates on Mr.Plyes and Medford Police about this incident? A court date?

Since this was a civil matter and Mr. Pyles was never facing any charges, there won't be a court date unless and until a) he sues the city and b) there's no settlement.

If it does happen, it'll be a year or two from now.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

This is a treasure trove of information...

Who's David Pyles?

 

[zeezee]

This is a treasure trove of information...

Who's David Pyles?

http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/16/pre-crime-policing

 

[Blitzkrieg]

http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/16/pre-crime-policing

It's hard to see that happening. Joseph Bloom, a psychiatrist at Oregon Health & Science University and a specialist in civil commitment law, says the police who apprehended and detained Pyles were likely acting under the cover of Oregon law. Bloom says the police are permitted to make a determination on their own to take someone in for a mental health evaluation—there's no requirement that they first consult with a judge or mental health professional. Bloom believes this is a wise policy. "It's important to remember that this is a civil process," he says. "There's no arrest, these people aren't being taking to jail. It's not a criminal action."

If it's not a "criminal action" then why are the police and SWAT involved? This is utterly totalitarian :huh:

 

[Avtomat Kalashnikova]

Update...

<broken link removed>

 

[Gunner3456]

Update...

<broken link removed>

That's not an update. That's a radio show where two guys are pooling their ignorance.

Pyles' personnel records are confidential and these clowns haven't seen them. His medical/mental health records are confidential and they haven't seen those either.

The only thing I heard there which is relevant is that Pyles is no longer a "disgruntled employee." That's because he's now been fired.

 

[slingshot1943]

Everything is OK, go back to sleep America.

 

[Gunner3456]

I'll say it just one more time. If Pyles was so terribly wronged, he'll file a lawsuit and get the big bucks. So far he hasn't done that, but it isn't over yet. If he wins the big bucks, that will stop Oregon police, and police from other states from ever doing that again. If the police and ODOT had good cause and Pyles just has to eat this, then maybe it was justified.

If Pyles does sue, he'll have to release his personnel file from ODOT and all of his medical including mental health records in discovery. So far none of the nay sayers have that info, but the police had confidential info from ODOT. ODOT also may well have had a clue as to his mental health history due to him being put on administrative leave.

Does Pyles want that info made public, and if that happens, will it ruin his arguments and his reputation?

The police, the mental health professionals and ODOT are muzzled due to privacy laws. The only one who can release all of the facts is Pyles. He hasn't.

The big mouths such as that radio host and knee-jerk Jerk from OFF don't know what they are talking about, but they sure can talk big.

Pyles has since been fired. ODOT wouldn't do that if they didn't think they were on solid ground, because that would just add major damages to any upcoming lawsuit. You can bet your bippy that they consulted with their attorneys before they fired him.

I have never in my life seen so many people jump to conclusions when the real facts are sealed up and hidden.

Now I'll sit back and see which of the members here is the stealth representative from OFF. I think they are a bunch of stupid jerks, so they can just run their uniformed mouths all they want.

 

[ZachS]

I'll say it just one more time. If Pyles was so terribly wronged, he'll file a lawsuit and get the big bucks. So far he hasn't done that, but it isn't over yet. If he wins the big bucks, that will stop Oregon police, and police from other states from ever doing that again. If the police and ODOT had good cause and Pyles just has to eat this, then maybe it was justified.

He has until the first week of September to file a tort claim notice, and <broken link removed> .


My guess is that they'll report a confidential settlement some time around the beginning of next year. Everybody involved in the case will claim vindication and we will continue arguing about what really happened, who was in the wrong, and how big the settlement was.

 

[Jamie6.5]

The big mouths such as that radio host and knee-jerk Jerk from OFF don't know what they are talking about, but they sure can talk big.

There's that "pot vs. kettle" thing again!

You can go back to sleep Americans. Oregon has a SWAT alarm clock to wake you up with.

 

[Gunner3456]

There's that "pot vs. kettle" thing again!

You can go back to sleep Americans. Oregon has a SWAT alarm clock to wake you up with.

With all due respect, your ad hominem reply also has no facts or on-topic argument in it. It's just another drive-by sniping, and it's unlike you, normally.

All I've ever said is that we don't know all of the facts, and we don't. I roundly criticize those who jump to conclusions, and point out which facts are missing.

I think those who wail the loudest in the face of gaping holes in the facts are jerks, and that's not ad hominem - it's a solid point, on-topic.

 

[Gunner3456]

He has until the first week of September to file a tort claim notice, and <broken link removed> .


My guess is that they'll report a confidential settlement some time around the beginning of next year. Everybody involved in the case will claim vindication and we will continue arguing about what really happened, who was in the wrong, and how big the settlement was.

Could be right. Almost anyone with deep pockets (ODOT, government agencies, corporations, hospitals, etc.) will settle something like this if they believe the cost of settlement is less than the cost of litigation, not counting the hassle factor. Make it go away cheaply and quickly.

If Pyles gets a token settlement, to me that will say that his counsel didn't believe he had a good case. If this case is worth big bucks, the attorneys will go after the big fees.

$.02

 

[chris61182]

Everybody involved in the case will claim vindication

Are you saying they'll all make threats at each other?


Perhaps the settlement could just be that they get the HR person who thought they were threatened a dictionary and teach them how to use it.

 

[Gunner3456]

If OFF can justify having THIS prominently on their website in the face of gaping holes in their knowledge of the most important facts, they are total jerks in my opinion.

It's totally irresponsible, and the tone certainly isn't professional.

This is all I need to know about OFF. They can kiss my bubblegum. IMHO they are looking for MONEY and idiot FOLLOWERS.

If this is such a great legal case, Pyles doesn't need money. A law firm will take it on a contingency - for a percentage, win or lose.

-------------

"OUTRAGE"​

"Imagine your telephone ringing in the middle of the night. The caller informs you that he is a police officer. He wants to "get you the help and appropriate resources you need." But wait, you have not asked for any help, don't need any help, and certainly don't want this "help" in the middle of the night.

But this offer of "help" and "appropriate resources" is an offer you can't refuse. You see, your home is surrounded by SWAT teams from multiple jurisdictions. There are men in helmets with machine guns everywhere. Snipers are aiming at your home. You are told to come outside. You are promised you won't be arrested, handcuffed or removed from your property. You are told your possessions will not be confiscated. The friendly paramilitary troops outside your house just want to chat with you.





Any rational person would recognize the danger in refusing the orders of dozens of heavily armed cops.

You leave your home and immediately you are handcuffed at gunpoint and taken to a mental hospital for a "psychological evaluation." The police enter your home without a warrant, without permission, without probable cause and confiscate your firearms.

You have NOT been "arrested" so you have no right to an attorney. You have no right to remain silent. You are subjected to a "hold." You can be held for up to 180 days. You can be medicated against your will. Your crime? The lawful and state-approved purchase of firearms.

None of this is fiction or speculation. It happened to an Oregonian on March 8th. This is the new face of "gun control" in the age of Obama. Buy a gun, go to a mental hospital.

David Pyles of Medford Oregon purchased several firearms between March 5th and 7th. In Oregon, a firearms purchase made through a dealer requires the approval of the Oregon State Police. David received approvals for all purchases, but it was these legal purchases that the police used to justify the raid on David's home and the state-sponsored kidnapping that followed.

Shortly before David made these purchases, he had been put on "administrative leave" from his job at the Oregon Department of Transportation. He was involved in a dispute with a superior which he was attempting to resolve though normal channels and union procedures when he was told he would have to work from home.

His gun purchases were long planned and the result of some extra cash he had on hand because of a tax refund. David already owned other firearms. But the State Police, after approving his purchases, contacted local law enforcement in what, at this time, appears to be a blatant violation of the law. And because his employer accused him of being "disgruntled," his perfectly legal gun buys became the excuse for an unlawful and unwarranted attack on his freedom and property.

A few hours after being dragged to an involuntary "psychological evaluation" David was released following clinical psychiatric evaluation which determined he was sane, of no threat to anyone, and of no threat or harm to himself. But the police kept his guns. At first, he was told he would have to wait 2 to 4 weeks to get his confiscated property back, but widespread attention and outrage by media and bloggers forced the police to return his guns.

His employer meanwhile posted notices warning other workers to run away if they saw David and call police. They also said David had made no threats to anyone.

David broke no law. He committed no crime and threatened no one. Yet, with no warrant and no probable cause, David was dragged off into the night by heavily armed troops with no legal authority to do so and he was given none of the protections a common thief would get from the legal system.

We cannot say how his life will be affected by this incident, especially now that, thanks to the NRA and the Brady Campaign joining forces, "mental health" records are being sent by the states to the Obama administration. We do know that this is a very dangerous situation and one the police have refused to explain or justify.

You can read an excellent and in depth review or what happened to David here and here. You can listen to an audio version here. You can download an in-depth analysis of the dangers of these kinds of raids here.

The Oregon Firearms Federation has been in contact with David since soon after the incident. He as recently expressed an interest in getting some assistance in his legal battle to hold the various actors in this chilling fiasco accountable.

This is a case with nationwide implications. All gun owners, in fact all Americans should be horrified and fearful of the"Minority Report" implications of taking someone by force in the absence of any crime or even an indication that a crime was planned.

What the gun grabbers have failed to achieve legislatively, they are trying to do the old-fashioned Soviet way. Just claim you're mentally ill and "not cooperating." Adding insult to injury, The Medford Mail Tribune, best know for its efforts to acquire the names and personal information of area gun owners, has published an editorial praising the actions of the police.

If you would like to assist David in his battle against this outrageous deprivation of his rights, the Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation has set up a fund for him. You may make a tax deductible donation to the Foundation or if you prefer, you can make a donation directly to David.
David Pyles
c/o the "David Pyles Legal Defense Fund"
P.O. Box 728
Medford, OR 97501

If you choose to donate through OFEF you can donate by check to :
Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation
PO Box 556
Canby OR 97013

Be sure to note that your donation is for David.

If you would prefer to make a secure donation online, you can safely do so at this link. Under "Donation Type" be sure to pick Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation and make a note that your gift is for David's defense. Clearly this kind of abuse must be stopped. We are all at risk. Thanks for your support."

 

[Gunner3456]

Perhaps the settlement could just be that they get the HR person who thought they were threatened a dictionary and teach them how to use it.

Perhaps they'll give the bubblegummers who jump to conclusions in sheer panic a dictionary and tell them to look up "missing" and "facts."

 

[chris61182]

The police, the mental health professionals and ODOT are muzzled due to privacy laws. The only one who can release all of the facts is Pyles. He hasn't.

The big mouths such as that radio host and knee-jerk Jerk from OFF don't know what they are talking about, but they sure can talk big.

If you had actually bothered to listen to the radio show, instead of run your mouth, you'd know that Mr. Pyles did release his records to the radio host and Kevin Starrett.

 

[Gunner3456]

If you had actually bothered to listen to the radio show, instead of run your mouth, you'd know that Mr. Pyles did release his records to the radio host and Kevin Starrett.

I've listened to it twice and I don't see where his entire medical/psychiatric records or his entire personnel file were released. Imho he released part of what's already public knowledge. Those bubblegummers on the radio don't know any more than we do.

Only time will tell what's in the background for all of this, and that only if Pyles sues and then only if it goes to trial!