David Pyles Medford Update 4-9-2010

[Gunner3456]

"Not every one can learn from other peoples' mistakes. Some of us have to be the other people." - unknown

 

[slingshot1943]

It's Ok, swat teams are just modern cowboys, you know, like Roy Rogers.

 

[ZachS]

C
If Pyles gets a token settlement, to me that will say that his counsel didn't believe he had a good case. If this case is worth big bucks, the attorneys will go after the big fees.

That's why I think it'll be confidential. So everybody can walk out of the room with their heads held high.

I'd be really surprised if Pyles and his attorneys go for a trial on this one. Even though he's a very sympathetic figure to many folks in this subculture, my gut tells me that it would be hard to find an entire panel of jurors willing to award him more than the city/OSP would settle for in the first place. I also think that they will be willing to make an offer substantially bigger than the typical $10-20k nuisance settlement just to avoid the media exposure of a trial.

 

[Gunner3456]

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

 

[Gunner3456]

That's why I think it'll be confidential. So everybody can walk out of the room with their heads held high.

I'd be really surprised if Pyles and his attorneys go for a trial on this one. Even though he's a very sympathetic figure to many folks in this subculture, my gut tells me that it would be hard to find an entire panel of jurors willing to award him more than the city/OSP would settle for in the first place. I also think that they will be willing to make an offer substantially bigger than the typical $10-20k nuisance settlement just to avoid the media exposure of a trial.

I agree 100%. Good post. I think it would also be worth settling to avoid the actual cost of a trial. Even if you win, it can cost big bucks in attorney's fees. Court costs, not so much. Then there's the nuisance factor - make it go away please.

I sued a major utility over a land rights issue and it cost me almost $100k in attorney's fees even though I was right. I wasn't awarded attorney's fees either. That comes out of the award, and then only if you win, and you hope like heck the award is larger than your costs.

I sued to make a statement and to stop an ongoing abuse of property rights. You have to have a deep gut reason to initiate a lawsuit, and you'd better be right or super wealthy because you can lose.

 

[Gunner3456]

When you take on someone with deep pockets like a utility or the State of Oregon (ODOT, State Police) or even a county or municipality, they may decide to fight to make an example out of you. They want to deter people in the future. Corporations do this regularly.

If they have the will and the pockets, they can file brief after brief and pleading after pleading to delay and to increase costs. Periodically they will file for summary judgment just for delay because it stops the process but not the risings costs for a while. They will file for extensions in time and generally beat you to death answering their motions.

It's not hard at all to get your costs to $100k and in some cases $1 million or more.

You'd dang well better be right and have deep pockets, or a law firm that's into big gambles before you take on the big boys.

 

[Father of four]

-------------

"OUTRAGE"​

"Imagine your telephone ringing in the middle of the night. The caller informs you that he is a police officer. He wants to "get you the help and appropriate resources you need." But wait, you have not asked for any help, don't need any help, and certainly don't want this "help" in the middle of the night.

But this offer of "help" and "appropriate resources" is an offer you can't refuse. You see, your home is surrounded by SWAT teams from multiple jurisdictions. There are men in helmets with machine guns everywhere. Snipers are aiming at your home. You are told to come outside. You are promised you won't be arrested, handcuffed or removed from your property. You are told your possessions will not be confiscated. The friendly paramilitary troops outside your house just want to chat with you.





Any rational person would recognize the danger in refusing the orders of dozens of heavily armed cops.

You leave your home and immediately you are handcuffed at gunpoint and taken to a mental hospital for a "psychological evaluation."

I totally agree with you about jumping to conclusions too quickly. I have at times myself. I am Sorry about that.

Your quote from above is what bothers me. They go threw all that hassle to get all the needed people and gear, surround his house, talk him into coming with them, take him to the evaluation and then let him go.

See that is a real problem to me. All that hassle then they let him go.

Something is not right there and it sets a precedent to at least us who do not know all of Police procedure to think this is more bulling going on. It for one makes me fill that my rights to be safe in my home may be violated by the Police just because they can. If they decide that after a mental interrogation and let me go then I should do what? Be happy? Be glad they let me go because they are only doing there job? Even if "Laws" and "Police Procedure" says its fine for them to do that to us, I say it isn't.

Maybe truly their intentions were to help the public from being hurt from a possible lunatic. But in the end they let him go. Now what? Say ok and let it happen again. What if they do it again and again without arresting anyone?

More of our rights and freedoms being taking away is what I think. And if it happens to me, it sound like you Gunner would just want me to shut up and take it.

Not knowing the Whole story but seeing them let him go within a few hours tells me somethings wrong. But I guess I am an idiot!

Alright Gunner tell me how wrong and stupid I am.

 

[Gunner3456]

-snip

Not knowing the Whole story but seeing them let him go within a few hours tells me somethings wrong. But I guess I am an idiot!

Alright Gunner tell me how wrong and stupid I am.

I don't think you're stupid. I repeat. We don't know all of the facts about what ODOT or others may have said, or why they made a "cry for help" to the police, but they did. Right there, we don't know why the police reacted, or even what they reacted to. Too many of those details, especially what's in Pyles' personnel file are confidential.

As you said, "Not knowing the whole story..."

We just don't know, and therefore aren't entitled to firmly held opinions about the police action. Maybe the police were completely out of line but we don't know that for a fact.

OFF acts as if they know it for a fact but they don't. I can't believe how many people talk or write as if they know what the police acted on "for a fact."

As for letting him go within a few hours, I'm pleased by that. If information from what should be credible sources gave the police "reasonable suspicion" to take action turned out to not be a concern, then they are supposed to let him go. That's how it's supposed to work.

If this were some evil totalitarian system as some might imply, Pyles might have been thrown in a rat-infested prison for a couple of years before he ever even got a hearing, if he got one. That didn't happen here.

If Pyles was treated as wrongfully as some here believe, then he's going to get rich and then how sorry will you feel for him, LOL? Hey, maybe he will. Who knows?

 

[Father of four]

I understand that.

But...

1. They come get you because they have enough evidence or speculation that you are a threat..

2. After all the steps of getting you and putting you threw an mental evaluation let you go..

It ='s someone was wrong and the person who was subjected to all that bull...

Being scared for you life by the Swat team and Police outside saying that they will use force and even possibly lethal force if needed if you don't do what they say. They take you and you have no rights! You cant have an attorney, you cant remain silent (5th amendment). They can drug you with out your consent and without anyone there to help you or an attorney to help show them you have rights.

That is messed up!

 

[Gunner3456]

I understand that.

But...

1. They come get you because they have enough evidence or speculation that you are a threat..

2. After all the steps of getting you and putting you threw an mental evaluation let you go..

It ='s someone was wrong and the person who was subjected to all that bull...

Being scared for you life by the Swat team and Police outside saying that they will use force and even possibly lethal force if needed if you don't do what they say. They take you and you have no rights! You cant have an attorney, you cant remain silent (5th amendment). They can drug you with out your consent and without anyone there to help you or an attorney to help show them you have rights.

That is messed up!

We're just going in circles...

 

[ZachS]

They take you and you have no rights! You cant have an attorney, you cant remain silent (5th amendment). They can drug you with out your consent and without anyone there to help you or an attorney to help show them you have rights.

That is messed up!

And they can't bring criminal charges against you based on what you say while detained - just keep you in the psych ward for a couple of days.

 

[Father of four]

As for letting him go within a few hours, I'm pleased by that. If information from what should be credible sources gave the police "reasonable suspicion" to take action turned out to not be a concern, then they are supposed to let him go. That's how it's supposed to work.

To me someone should be held responsible for that though. It wouldn't be right if the came onto your property and took your guns and ammo, took your survival supplies and what ever else they wanted because they believe you are operating without a license or not having the proper permits to do or have the things you have on your property. And that is just a example. I don't know what you have. But if they did that to you and I didn't know the Whole story but from what i see they are making a example out of you. I would be pissed for you!

It seems like his constitutional rights were thrown out!

 

[Father of four]

And they can't bring criminal charges against you based on what you say while detained - just keep you in the psych ward for a couple of days.

Yeah that sounds like it coincides with our constitutionals right doesn't it?

 

[Father of four]

We're just going in circles...

I know. I just cant seem to type what I mean. I'll stop.

 

[Father of four]

If this were some evil totalitarian system as some might imply, Pyles might have been thrown in a rat-infested prison for a couple of years before he ever even got a hearing, if he got one. That didn't happen here.

That did happen in Gitmo. One guy was held with out charges for 6 years. At least thats what I read somewhere.

 

[ZachS]

That did happen in Gitmo. One guy was held with out charges for 6 years. At least thats what I read somewhere.

Everyone in Gitmo is being held for years without charges. But you're talking apples and oranges. The people held there are similar to POWs, and were detained for allegedly fighting against the U.S. overseas. None are U.S. citizens. Although I think they're entitled to a much more robust system of due process than they have, it would be ridiculous to treat them like domestic lunatics or criminal suspects.

 

[zeezee]

1. They come get you because they have enough evidence or speculation that you are a threat..

Hmmm, speculation? Ahhh yup sheriff we got a lot of that, evidence, sorry boss No evidence but can we do the raid anyhows, please boss please!!!!!!

 

[Gunner3456]

That did happen in Gitmo. One guy was held with out charges for 6 years. At least thats what I read somewhere.

Geez, FOF - the guy was a captured enemy combatant, not a US citizen on US soil.

Are you Obama's teacher or something, LOL?

 

[zeezee]

Geez, FOF - the guy was a captured enemy combatant, not a US citizen on US soil.

Are you Obama's teacher or something, LOL?

 

[Father of four]

Everyone in Gitmo is being held for years without charges. But you're talking apples and oranges. The people held there are similar to POWs, and were detained for allegedly fighting against the U.S. overseas. None are U.S. citizens. Although I think they're entitled to a much more robust system of due process than they have, it would be ridiculous to treat them like domestic lunatics or criminal suspects.

I understand but what about the guy that is held for years and then they let him go. A person is a person. Our county shouldn't have to hold a person that long to figure it out. They do it because they can. Our country would be up in arms if some other country even had one of our boys against our will, but they can do whatever they want to others because they are the US Government?

Example like this is why We the People should not just shut up and be quiet. If we continue to not say anything what they do to others, they will end up doing to us. All in the name of security and fighting terrorist of course..

Doesn't it seem like the Police force is learning to do the same as our military. And I don't mean the mean and women in service but the ones who lead the services. The real ones who call the shoots.

If we don't at least say something it will continue to get worse.