Consenting to ID while fishing.

[USAF Medic]

PRIVACY IS A MYTH .
If the feds want to know who you are, Using satallite face recognition technology, DNA can I'D YOU within 10 min.

 

[teflon6string]

I've been fishing since 1960 and finally got checked once near Clackamas 3-4 summers ago. Guy was cool and polite, checking my family and everyone else along the bank. He explained why he wanted my ODL, too, to confirm I wasn't using someone else's licence. Thanked my GF and me for teaching her teen savages to do the right thing.

Interrupted our fishing for probably 5 minutes. But it was a fair tradeoff in my mind because I really hoped he'd nab the mooching, malodorous, intrusive pr*ck who'd been irritating everybody else. But, alas, Aqualung had paper as well.

I'm not an open carry guy (and I don't show my cards at blackjack either). So I wonder what the warden would've made of my concealed sidearm if it was printing obviously, or if my open shirt flapped in the breeze. On the way back to camp, we snapped a quick photo of me "killing" a hefty stringer of trout by the "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" sign in the parking lot.

 

[Qjay]

As I understand it, concealed carry is legal when hunting or fishing. At least in Washington, and I believe in Oregon, according to the state regs. I haven't checked in awhile for OR, but in WA I read it a few months back in the RCWs.

 

[BAMCIS]

I will help enforce fish and game laws as best as I can. In short I would be available as a witness if needed and I will report any violations I witness. I don't catch more fish than I should and I release those not in season. In short I'm not a poacher and will do all I can to help the government catch and prosecute those who do break fish and game laws.

Having said that, this is a very touchy subject as far as I'm concerned. And there is so much misinformation surrounding this. The state has the vast majority of the public buffaloed into believing you give up your 4th and 5th amendment rights just because you are engaging in hunting and/or fishing.

Personally, when I'm on the water and approached by OSP asking to check my license and/or tag I respectfully ask what I was doing wrong to warrant a stop. When s/he says "nothing", I then reply I see no need for the government intrusion and the illegal stop. Again, I'm totally respectful.

Then it progresses something like this:

"Sir, I'm not trying to be difficult, but you know as well as I do my constitutional rights don't stop at the water's edge."

"Well, I simply want to check your license."

I again ask if probable cause exists for a stop. (Notice I didn't ask what it was.)

Then s/he admits there is no probable cause and I tell them, "Well, based on the US Constitution I am under no obligation to produce any documentation, nor do I have to submit for a search."

They usually bring up the law that says in effect when one is fishing and/or hunting then they must also produce any licenses and/or tags and offer for inspection anything bagged (caught or killed).

I tell her/him that we both know that law wouldn't hold up to any serious constitutional scrutiny and ask if they can stop me driving down the freeway just to check if my driver's license is valid. And how is driving on the highway (a prima facie LEGAL activity) any different than another prima facie legal activity, in this case fishing (or hunting).

Again, I can't stress enough I do this in a very respectful manner and try not to personalize it by saying "you". Instead I say "government".

This does not usually cause them to leave (but sometimes it has in the past), but it DOES preserve your rights at any future court proceeding.

Trust me they understand exactly what I'm doing. Most don't have a problem with it, however sometimes they get frustrated and sometimes they simply leave. Sometimes I will give them my license and/or tag under their understanding I'm submitting under protest and no consent has been given or implied. Again, this preserves my rights.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Understanding your local laws is always a good idea.
In Washington, RCW 77.15.080 is a good one to know:

RCW 77.15.080
Fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers — Inspection authority.
Based upon articulable facts that a person is engaged in fishing, harvesting, or hunting activities, fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers have the authority to temporarily stop the person and check for valid licenses, tags, permits, stamps, or catch record cards, and to inspect all fish, shellfish, seaweed, and wildlife in possession as well as the equipment being used to ensure compliance with the requirements of this title.

Fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers also may request that the person write his or her signature for comparison with the signature on his or her fishing, harvesting, or hunting license.

Failure to comply with the request is prima facie evidence that the person is not the person named on the license.

Fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers may require the person, if age sixteen or older, to exhibit a driver's license or other photo identification.

 

[BAMCIS]

Understanding your local laws is always a good idea.
In Washington, RCW 77.15.080 is a good one to know:

RCW 77.15.080
Fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers — Inspection authority.
Based upon articulable facts that a person is engaged in fishing, harvesting, or hunting activities, fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers have the authority to temporarily stop the person and check for valid licenses, ........

Oregon has the very same law. But a valid, legal reason (probable cause) is still needed for the government to stop someone. The fact they were hunting or fishing is irrelevant.

The game wardens try to get the encounter to "mere conversation". By objecting the way I outlined above moves the encounter from "mere conversation" and up to a stop. And for the government to stop a citizen, then probable cause is needed. I'm simply preserving my rights.

And if the government does have probable cause to stop or detain you, then you are still under no obligation to talk to them or show them anything. Tell them politely they can look wherever they want as soon as they produce a valid search warrant.

I truly hope people take the time and school themselves on their rights. This knowledge not only protects you on the water or woods, but also in any other governmental encounter, such as the IRS or (God forbid) in an instance where force was used.

It's a little long, but here is a very good seminar:

 

[clambo]

If youre not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide. We all get checked out from time to time and I'm sure they pop a pretty large number of guys with warrants by checking driver's license numbers. It's amazing how many people with outstanding warrants hang out in the woods for one reason or another thinking they are in some sort of " safe zone " where they can let their guard down and not fear arrest. It's amazing how many felons are up in the woods shooting or hunting at any given time as well. They either genuinely believe that somehow they are legal or they think their chances of being caught are slim to nil because in their mind, " There arent any cops around. "

With all the tweaker break ins at popular fishing holes and occasional tweaker violence on the rivers I for one am glad the fish and game cops are there and do what they do. I too pack a gun when fishing but I honestly wish I did not feel like I needed to. It takes away from the experience for me. I also carry the local fish cops cell number in my cell phone and report anything I see that needs to be addressed. i.e. Russian snaggers, tweakers breaking into cars, harrassment or violence resultant from same.

 

[concealedhunter]

I don't break the law to begin with, so if an OSP asks me for my licenses/tags, I do not mind handing them over. If there is suspicion around my activity, I want to clear my name as soon as possible with the least amount of trouble. If it is a routine checkup, then I do not mind following the law I agreed to obey when I bought the license.
Growing up in Alaska, I learned to fish with one hand near a big gun to take care of bears that would challenge humans for their catch. The DFW officers had to enforce laws in desolate environs with people who were almost certain to be carrying. I realize that Oregon is a little less gun crazy than Alaska, but the principles are similar. If you are on a river or the coast, the DFW is approaching you blindly with no idea if you are armed and well aware that a body would be easily disposed of. So do them a favor and allay their fears. When you bought your license you agreed to the rules governing its use. Hold up your end of the bargain.

 

[BAMCIS]

​

I don't break the law to begin with, so if an OSP asks me for my licenses/tags, I do not mind handing them over. If there is suspicion around my activity, I want to clear my name as soon as possible with the least amount of trouble. If it is a routine checkup, then I do not mind following the law I agreed to obey when I bought the license......

It is not up to you, a citizen to prove you are innocent. Instead it is up to the government to prove your guilt. (I like it that way.) Otherwise pretty soon this is what happens:

​

You can do what you want, but I think these rights are worth exercising because if they aren't then pretty soon you loose them.

 

[bulletpusher]

I will help enforce fish and game laws as best as I can. In short I would be available as a witness if needed and I will report any violations I witness. I don't catch more fish than I should and I release those not in season. In short I'm not a poacher and will do all I can to help the government catch and prosecute those who do break fish and game laws.

Having said that, this is a very touchy subject as far as I'm concerned. And there is so much misinformation surrounding this. The state has the vast majority of the public buffaloed into believing you give up your 4th and 5th amendment rights just because you are engaging in hunting and/or fishing.

Personally, when I'm on the water and approached by OSP asking to check my license and/or tag I respectfully ask what I was doing wrong to warrant a stop. When s/he says "nothing", I then reply I see no need for the government intrusion and the illegal stop. Again, I'm totally respectful.

Then it progresses something like this:

"Sir, I'm not trying to be difficult, but you know as well as I do my constitutional rights don't stop at the water's edge."

"Well, I simply want to check your license."

I again ask if probable cause exists for a stop. (Notice I didn't ask what it was.)

Then s/he admits there is no probable cause and I tell them, "Well, based on the US Constitution I am under no obligation to produce any documentation, nor do I have to submit for a search."

They usually bring up the law that says in effect when one is fishing and/or hunting then they must also produce any licenses and/or tags and offer for inspection anything bagged (caught or killed).

I tell her/him that we both know that law wouldn't hold up to any serious constitutional scrutiny and ask if they can stop me driving down the freeway just to check if my driver's license is valid. And how is driving on the highway (a prima facie LEGAL activity) any different than another prima facie legal activity, in this case fishing (or hunting).

Again, I can't stress enough I do this in a very respectful manner and try not to personalize it by saying "you". Instead I say "government".

This does not usually cause them to leave (but sometimes it has in the past), but it DOES preserve your rights at any future court proceeding.

Trust me they understand exactly what I'm doing. Most don't have a problem with it, however sometimes they get frustrated and sometimes they simply leave. Sometimes I will give them my license and/or tag under their understanding I'm submitting under protest and no consent has been given or implied. Again, this preserves my rights.

PRECISELY...........THE FOURTH AMENDMENT.....AND THE FIFTH

 

[bulletpusher]

If youre not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide. We all get checked out from time to time and I'm sure they pop a pretty large number of guys with warrants by checking driver's license numbers. It's amazing how many people with outstanding warrants hang out in the woods for one reason or another thinking they are in some sort of " safe zone " where they can let their guard down and not fear arrest. It's amazing how many felons are up in the woods shooting or hunting at any given time as well. They either genuinely believe that somehow they are legal or they think their chances of being caught are slim to nil because in their mind, " There arent any cops around. "

With all the tweaker break ins at popular fishing holes and occasional tweaker violence on the rivers I for one am glad the fish and game cops are there and do what they do. I too pack a gun when fishing but I honestly wish I did not feel like I needed to. It takes away from the experience for me. I also carry the local fish cops cell number in my cell phone and report anything I see that needs to be addressed. i.e. Russian snaggers, tweakers breaking into cars, harrassment or violence resultant from same.

ILLEGAL ALIENS further sucking the assets out of my home state.

 

[bulletpusher]

Oregon has the very same law. But a valid, legal reason (probable cause) is still needed for the government to stop someone. The fact they were hunting or fishing is irrelevant.

The game wardens try to get the encounter to "mere conversation". By objecting the way I outlined above moves the encounter from "mere conversation" and up to a stop. And for the government to stop a citizen, then probable cause is needed. I'm simply preserving my rights.

And if the government does have probable cause to stop or detain you, then you are still under no obligation to talk to them or show them anything. Tell them politely they can look wherever they want as soon as they produce a valid search warrant.

I truly hope people take the time and school themselves on their rights. This knowledge not only protects you on the water or woods, but also in any other governmental encounter, such as the IRS or (God forbid) in an instance where force was used.

It's a little long, but here is a very good seminar:

EXCELLENT.......SHUT UP!

 

[concealedhunter]

I understand the reaction, but in my opinion, and I stress that, providing licensure to hunt or fish is fair if a law enforcement official asks for it. Legality aside, it helps protect the future of my past times as it aids the LEO in stopping poachers who are taking opportunities away from me. That alone is enough to make me want to.
I am well aware of the potential Nazi references that can be drawn from this, but I emphasize that I carry a firearm. The difference between myself and my great-uncle is that I have a pistol on my hip while he did not. He died in Auschwitz because he had no means of defending himself. I will cooperate with law enforcement while they are reasonable. If they attempt to CLEARLY confiscate my firearms or encroach on my rights with NEGATIVE intentions, then they will receive a fitting response. The truth is, however, I have never had such an interaction with LE and most of the individuals I have interacted with do not seem to have such a mindset. They are there to do their job and not persecute me.
I know that I am about to be blown up about this, but at least in my opinion this provides representation for the other side of the argument.

 

[bulletpusher]

AGREED.

 

[bulletpusher]

AGREED.

AND, I might add.
I WILL DIE FIGHTING BEFORE ANY MOTHERbubblegumER THINKS HE CAN bubblegum WITH ME FOR NO VALID REASON.

 

[pokerace]

Is there any law saying we must consent to ID when a LEO asks for it while fishing? Do we lose our right to privacy when fishing? I was curious because an officer asked me for my fishing license the other day and wrote down my ODL number that was on my fishing license.

Check your fishing Regs. It tells you in there what YOU have to do.

 

[IheartSig]

Not sure there is any "right to privacy" when you are engaged in an activity that requires
a license.

This pretty much sums it up. The fish and game guys are on the whole, pretty good people. The OSP troopers that monitor areas and do stop and chats are as well. If you need to bow up on a Trooper while he's trying to verify your fishing license, perhaps you should not be fishing. Imagining that you are a freedom fighter because you got tough with a game warden is kind of silly.

You are there to fish and presumably relax right? (That's why I go any way. a day spent along a river in relative peace and quiet even if I catch nothing, is better than a day at work) Life is too short man, relax.

 

[IheartSig]

AND, I might add.
I WILL DIE FIGHTING BEFORE ANY MOTHERbubblegumER THINKS HE CAN bubblegum WITH ME FOR NO VALID REASON.

Sir, your caps lock button appears to be malfunctioning.

 

[No_Regerts]

I show my DL with my Fishing/Hunting license just so the officer knows I'm the same person as the one on the license/tag. You'd be surprised how much info you can get out of a fish cop when you're nice. I've gotten great tips on lingcod rigs, info on where an officer saw elk cross a road, etc.

 

[JSchuster]

A group and I have a yearly trout trip we do in the Eastern Sierras, and we often fish the same spots on the same lake over the course of a long weekend with lots of shore time. We would see a combinations of familiar faces and new faces at the lake each day. The first day the DFG Warden came and checked with us and chewed the rag about what was hitting and where we had come up from, etc. The next time we saw him he gave us a nod as he walked by, and then then asked the "new guys" nearby us for their info. And did the same the next day. And the next.

I understand feeling strongly about our right to privacy, but if I'm engaged in an activity that would probably be ruined without enforcement against poachers (let alone the support of DFG stocking the lake) I'm willing to cooperate.