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collapsible baton debate

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Hollow, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. Hollow

    Hollow Portland, Oregon New Member

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    Ok so my friend and i are having a small debate tonight if it is legal to carry a collapsible baton here in Oregon. We did the normal google search and got a lot of yes and no's and so on into a grey area. I was wondering if anyone here knows for sure if it is either legal or illegal.

    Thanks all.
     
  2. Barone20

    Barone20 Damascus, Or Active Member

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    I think its considered a weapon, so if you conceal it than it would be illegal
     
    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.
  3. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

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    I have wondered if the ASP baton is legal to carry in oregon as well.
    The ASP baton is considered a less than lethal weapon and would be an excellent option, to the handguns and knives i carry now.

    M67
     
  4. SonicBlue03

    SonicBlue03 Snohomish Well-Known Member

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    That's a question that's worth calling your local sheriff's office about.
     
  5. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    Okay, not a lawyer so use at your own risk YMMV etc etc:

    166.240 Carrying of concealed weapons. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring or by centrifugal force, any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slungshot, metal knuckles, or any similar instrument by the use of which injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person, commits a Class B misdemeanor.

    Key words here are 'concealed' (don't hide it and 166.240 does not apply) and 'or any similar instrument'. ASP is not defined in the statute but could a case be made that an ASP is similar to a knife blade that uses centrifugal force... maybe. I don't have access to case law to know if this has come up before.

    I think 166.370 is where you will run into trouble:
    166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school. (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.

    161.015 General definitions. As used in chapter 743, Oregon Laws 1971, and ORS 166.635, unless the context requires otherwise:

    (1) “Dangerous weapon” means any weapon, device, instrument, material or substance which under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.

    By 161.015 an ASP is a 'dangerous weapon'.

    The challenge in 370 is two fold; first it reads 'or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon'; used implies that you would have to hit someone with it to make it illegal. There is also an exemption to 370 for CHL holders:

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
    (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

    By strict reading, if you are licensed under 166.291/292 then section 1 does not apply. It does not matter that the weapon in question is not a firearm.

    Again, this would really be a case law question.

    Bottom line is; (IMO) it is not against the law as defined by ORS, however, there is enough grey area that you could end up as a defendant. Again, I'm only stating what I found in ORS; there may be case law that defines this in more detail. Your best bet is a call into a criminal defense lawyer.
     
  6. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You can't slip a screwdriver or foot long section of steel pipe in your coat. So I seriously doubt you can carry a weapon like a baton concealed.

    It is the act of concealment that makes the crime. Same with a Switchblade its perfeectly legal in Oregon to walk around with a switchblade as long as it can be seen. The instant you put it in your pocket you have commited the crime of carrying a concealed weapon.

    So if your going to walk around with the baton hangin exposed on your belt I would say you would be hard pressed to be convicted of carrying concealed. Any more then a 13 year old heading to the little league field with an aluminum baseball bat.
     
  7. beavertonbuck

    beavertonbuck Beaverton Active Member

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    Here is the applicable statute:

    166.240 Carrying of concealed weapons. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring or by centrifugal force, any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slungshot, metal knuckles, or any similar instrument by the use of which injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person, commits a Class B misdemeanor.(2) Nothing in subsection (1) of this section applies to any peace officer as defined in ORS 133.005, whose duty it is to serve process or make arrests. Justice courts have concurrent jurisdiction to try any person charged with violating any of the provisions of subsection (1) of this section.

    If you read ORS 166.260 you will note it only pertains to ORS 166.250 which deals with unlawful possession of firearms; therefore it appears that 166.240 would apply to someone who has a CHL. So if the baton is a classified by the police has a similar instrument (as those listed in the statute) and can inflict injury to a person or property then you are sunk. Its unfortunate that they don't exclude CHL holders from this statute has well because it just removes our ability to deploy a less than lethal response to an attack.
     
  8. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

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    If it is the act of concealment that makes the crime, that is easy to get around. If 166.370 applies- Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building, then there could be a legal problem.

    Section 166.240 - Carrying of concealed weapons.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring or by centrifugal force, any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slungshot, metal knuckles, or any similar instrument by the use of which injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person, commits a Class B misdemeanor.

    Section 166.360 - Definitions for ORS 166.360 to 166.380.

    (1) “Capitol building” means the Capitol, the State Office Building, the State Library Building, the Labor and Industries Building, the State Transportation Building, the Agriculture Building or the Public Service Building and includes any new buildings which may be constructed on the same grounds as an addition to the group of buildings listed in this subsection.

    (f) A club, bat, baton, billy club, bludgeon, knobkerrie, nunchaku, nightstick, truncheon or any similar instrument, the use of which could inflict injury upon a person or property; or

    (g) A dangerous or deadly weapon as those terms are defined in ORS 161.015. [1969 c.705 §1; 1977 c.769 §2; 1979 c.398 §1; 1989 c.982 §4; 1993 c.741 §2; 1999 c.577 §2; 1999 c.782 §6; 2001 c.201 §1]

    I just am wondering why 166.240 leaves out the language, that is listed in section 166.360 to 166.380. (F) ?

    161.015¹ General definitions

    (1) Dangerous weapon means any weapon, device, instrument, material or substance which under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.

    (2) Deadly weapon means any instrument, article or substance specifically designed for and presently capable of causing death or serious physical injury.

    (3) Deadly physical force means physical force that under the circumstances in which it is used is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.

    (5) Person means a human being and, where appropriate, a public or private corporation, an unincorporated association, a partnership, a government or a governmental instrumentality.

    (6) Physical force includes, but is not limited to, the use of an electrical stun gun, tear gas or mace.

    (7) Physical injury means impairment of physical condition or substantial pain.

    (8) Serious physical injury means physical injury which creates a substantial risk of death or which causes serious and protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of health or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ.

    (9) Possess means to have physical possession or otherwise to exercise dominion or control over property.

    (10) Public place means a place to which the general public has access and includes, but is not limited to, hallways, lobbies and other parts of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence, and highways, streets, schools, places of amusement, parks, playgrounds and premises used in connection with public passenger transportation. [1971 c.743 §3; 1973 c.139 §1; 1979 c.656 §3; 1991 c.67 §33; 1993 c.625 §4; 1995 c.651 §5; 2011 c.506 §22; 2011 c.641 §2; 2011 c.644 §23]


    M67