Clarification Needed on Oregon Carry Laws

[AirWolf]

So from the reading of this law, as presented, one could be charged for having a pen or pencil, or anything else that "could be" used as a dangerous weapon. "Any other instrument?" Leaves it very open to interpretation.

As for: "while in or on a public building"

Not exactly true. I'm in Klamath Falls. Our courthouse is a public building. However, my CC is legal, by law. However they will not comply. Note: Refusal to comply with state law.

As for: "Unless you have a CHL your committing a Felony

There are public buildings, notably the Circuit Courts and the Oregon Supreme Court (for instance) that do not exempt CC holders. But these exemptions are few.

Both Public Building and Dangerous Weapon have legal definitions in the statue.

For Dangerous Weapons under ORS a pen or pencil or anything else that could be used would not be a Dangerous Weapon. That is a straw man argument and I'm willing to be you know it's BS. Any other instrument is not open to interpretation because Dangerous Weapon has a very clear legal definition.

From ORS 161.015: "Dangerous weapon" means any weapon, device, instrument, material or substance which under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.

Serious Physical Injury also has a legal definition. So yes, a pen could be a Dangerous Weapon under ORS at the point in which you go to stab me in the eye with it, but since using it to write on a note pad does not make it readily capable of causing any kind of injury at all, except maybe to my ego, it isn't a Dangerous Weapon and thus isn't going to run you afoul of the law. You can carry a bucket of acid from the delivery truck to the chem lab, but once you try to throw it onto someone it has the legal status of being a dangerous weapon and you're now guilty of a felony, but before that it was just acid.

I don't know anything about Klamath Counties refusal to comply, however Public Building also has a definition and Courts are not "Public Buildings" for the purpose of this statues. Courts are Courts. Yes I know that there is a public part of many buildings that we would consider "Public Buildings" but because Public Buildings has legal penalties attached when certain behavior happens at them, it has a definition that limits the scope of the ORS.

Section 2 of the relevant statue (166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public buildings or court facility) says you can't have a gun in a Court Facility, full stop. But wait, Court Facility has a definition and it includes only these kinds of courts: a courthouse or that portion of any other building occupied by a circuit court, the Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court or the Oregon Tax Court.

We finally get to Local Court Facility later in the statute which has a definition: "Local court facility" means the portion of a building in which a justice court, a municipal court, a probate court or a juvenile court conducts business, during the hours in which the court operates.

The statue then says: A firearm in a local court facility is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony if, prior to the offense, the presiding judge of the local court facility entered an order prohibiting firearms in the area in which the court conducts business and during the hours in which the court operates.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to address your other point, there are no "Public Buildings" where a CHL won't grant you the exemption in Oregon, but please note that is true because Courts are not "Public Buildings" under the law, they are something different and yes, the CHL does not grant you an exception there.

I don't know the situation you are referring to in Klamath, but a Local Court Judge does have the legal power to ban firearms in the areas listed above within a local court during the hours that the court operates.

Clear as mud?

 

[PDX1953]

.......some LEOs, especially in Portland, may take you bringing up (however politely) that you are armed as some kind of veiled threat.

I agree this could happen with PPD, Mult & Clack Cty LEO's. Washington County Deputies are very cool about CC or open carry & when I was driving for Uber last summer a Deputy said, "If I had you job I'd carry a gun" while I was waiting for a rider. He asked me to back up the road so the rider wouldn't see me leave because she was going with them for assaulting her husband. I charged her the minimum $5 for wasting my time.

 

[PDX1953]

Both Public Building and Dangerous Weapon have legal definitions in the statue.

For Dangerous Weapons under ORS a pen or pencil or anything else that could be used would not be a Dangerous Weapon. That is a straw man argument and I'm willing to be you know it's BS. Any other instrument is not open to interpretation because Dangerous Weapon has a very clear legal definition.

From ORS 161.015: "Dangerous weapon" means any weapon, device, instrument, material or substance which under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.

Serious Physical Injury also has a legal definition. So yes, a pen could be a Dangerous Weapon under ORS at the point in which you go to stab me in the eye with it, but since using it to write on a note pad does not make it readily capable of causing any kind of injury at all, except maybe to my ego, it isn't a Dangerous Weapon and thus isn't going to run you afoul of the law. You can carry a bucket of acid from the delivery truck to the chem lab, but once you try to throw it onto someone it has the legal status of being a dangerous weapon and you're now guilty of a felony, but before that it was just acid.

I don't know anything about Klamath Counties refusal to comply, however Public Building also has a definition and Courts are not "Public Buildings" for the purpose of this statues. Courts are Courts. Yes I know that there is a public part of many buildings that we would consider "Public Buildings" but because Public Buildings has legal penalties attached when certain behavior happens at them, it has a definition that limits the scope of the ORS.

Section 2 of the relevant statue (166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public buildings or court facility) says you can't have a gun in a Court Facility, full stop. But wait, Court Facility has a definition and it includes only these kinds of courts: a courthouse or that portion of any other building occupied by a circuit court, the Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court or the Oregon Tax Court.

We finally get to Local Court Facility later in the statute which has a definition: "Local court facility" means the portion of a building in which a justice court, a municipal court, a probate court or a juvenile court conducts business, during the hours in which the court operates.

The statue then says: A firearm in a local court facility is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony if, prior to the offense, the presiding judge of the local court facility entered an order prohibiting firearms in the area in which the court conducts business and during the hours in which the court operates.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to address your other point, there are no "Public Buildings" where a CHL won't grant you the exemption in Oregon, but please note that is true because Courts are not "Public Buildings" under the law, they are something different and yes, the CHL does not grant you an exception there.

I don't know the situation you are referring to in Klamath, but a Local Court Judge does have the legal power to ban firearms in the areas listed above within a local court during the hours that the court operates.

Clear as mud?

I got fingerprint cards done at the Tualatin PD last year & there's a courtroom on one side of the lobby & Tualatin PD is on the other. The guy who fingerprinted me said the Judge is a real bubblegum & has declared all of the building to be considered as 'his' courtroom so NO GUNS ALLOWED! Apparently the judge thinks quite highly of himself.

I don't carry into the USPS and have only been in a Federal Bldg once since 2013. I conceal at Costco except when I'm getting gas & even had an attendant thank me for supporting the 2A.

I belong to a gun group on FB & the running joke about Costco is if they ask about the bulge under a shirt the answer is, "It's my insulin pump and no, you can't see it." I personally know of an FBI agent in Sacramento who entered a Costco with his badge showing & his weapon holstered. Some dumb bubblegum employee asked if he was on duty (only legal for a LEO to carry if on duty) and his answer was, "I'm on call 24/7 so yes, I'm on duty."

 

[AirWolf]

I don't know the details about the USPS, but I know there's something about a potential case law that would allow you to carry there, but the details are murky and I don't know what the legal argument is. I don't want to be the test case for that one though!

Federal Buildings, don't carry in them, but from experience in the Portland Federal Buildings, if you carry concealed into one and then don't cause a fuss when found you usually can get out with only a warning, even though a crime was committed.

Costco, the worst they can do is ask you to leave and the insulin pump is a really good idea.

 

[jbett98]

Here's a partial excerpt that I recently saw online on The FirearmsBlog.
Written by Alex C. concerning what's legally tax stamped in the U.S.


a. 7,200 Hk sears

b. 6,000 FNC sears

c. 20,000 M11/9s

d. 500 SWD Lightning Links

e. 500 RIA M60s

f. 3300ish Group Industry (aka Vector) Uzi's

g. At least 20,000 M16s

h. The NFA records are completely messed up , the ATF says the error rate on pre-68 records is 50%.

i. You have to assume that probably 10 to 20% of the 183K registered guns are easily gone now since 1943 (lost, stolen, damaged beyond repair). You have to remember that prior to 86 there wasnt a whole lot of value in a damaged M16 when the transfer or making tax was 1/3 the cost of the gun itself. Similar to suppressors today, who buys a used or damaged can when 25% of the value is in the transfer tax and you could just buy a new one from a dealer.

As a result of the closed registry, we cannot get new machine guns. We simply trade the ones that have been out there for years. This has resulted in very high prices. For example, one can get an AR15 for $600-700 in the USA, but I have seen converted automatic AR15s sell for $17,000. Factory Colt guns can go for $25,000+. Uzis which were a few hundred dollars back in the day are now bringing $12,000! This has created a small fiat driven marketplace for an extremely low amount of goods with an insanely high demand. For example, this here is a rather unremarkable piece of steel:



The bit of hardened steel is a registered Fleming HK sear. I have seen one sell for $27,000 so at roughly 0.25 ounces, that makes this steel worth $108,000 an ounce which makes it perhaps the most expensive metal on the planet (barring some obscure lanthanide or actinide) and 83 times more expensive than gold!

However, as the value on machine guns very seldom goes down, you could probably get your wife to understand your desire to buy one with the old "it's an investment honey". It sure is an investment too. I bought my first MG in January of 2010 for $3,000, and it is now worth $5,500. That is a 54% return on my purchase in just four years! I wish that all of my investments were like that one, and this even encouraged my father to get into the game (he even bought himself a machine gun not too long ago as an investment he can enjoy). That said, I would gladly take the monetary hit on my collection if others and myself could acquire post samples freely like they can suppressors.

Machine Guns Are Legal: A Practical Guide to Full Auto - The Firearm Blog