Circumstances under which tyranny is impossible

[40calruler]

It was not personal at all. It was all public. Starting a revolution here is not the wisest course to take, and you should know that.
If that course is taken it will be NOT on any public forum or firearms list.
I am sure that track is being discussed all over the country but most likely in the back rooms and the barns, fields, grange halls, and even out in the backwoods and in urban warehouses and homes around the nation, but not on public forums.
Most people know what they will do when that scenario materializes.
I think what people here are saying is stop painting a target on your back.

Absolutely, The point is just that. The fact that the guy does not get that being the point says it all. Keep trying to convince yourself that that brick wall is a welcoming on ramp! Or I guess trying to convince us....Brick wall there is reinforced.

 

[40calruler]

Let's get realistic and stop jumping to conclusions. Calm down and instead of judging this book by its cover, read "the declaration of dissolution of government"
Or the "Under One banner petition"

My goal Is to bring people under one banner, how can we accomplish this task if we are not on the same page.

http://outpost-of-freedom.com/blog/?p=359

http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/youhavetreadonme/index.htm

If you do not want personal attacks then stop talking nonsense on a respectable intelligent firearms forum! Go on craigslist. Many recruits there. Take a breath and realize your posts are not getting the response you want and tone it down buddy. No recruits here. Just people that are now telling you that your thoughts on the issue does not align with theirs. Accept and move on...again

 

[MatthewP503]

Maby some day when our thoughts are similarly aligned you will remember the information I have put up for consideration. That's all I hope for.

 

[Just Jim]

If you do not want personal attacks then stop talking nonsense on a respectable intelligent firearms forum! Go on craigslist. Many recruits there. Take a breath and realize your posts are not getting the response you want and tone it down buddy. No recruits here. Just people that are now telling you that your thoughts on the issue does not align with theirs. Accept and move on...again

New guy trolls through with revolution in his post, wonder what he is up to?

 

[40calruler]

New guy trolls through with revolution in his post, wonder what he is up to?

Yeah those kinda guys are really hard to figure out...if only we could be a bit smarter instead of being a bunch of hill billies that hear revolution and go running to fight with some random online poster.

 

[Just Jim]

Yeah those kinda guys are really hard to figure out...if only we could be a bit smarter instead of being a bunch of hill billies that hear revolution and go running to fight with some random online poster.

I am seeing this on other gun boards too, new guys come in and talk about killing and rioting. Looks like a full court press to get us shut down.

 

[40calruler]

I am seeing this on other gun boards too, new guys come in and talk about killing and rioting. Looks like a full court press to get us shut down.

For sure. They must enjoy the idea that this crap will be well received here and other firearm forums. I think the only people getting "something to think about" are the folks trying to prove we somehow love the idea of violence. Sorry that we do not fit in with the agenda here!

 

[U201491]

Maby some day when our thoughts are similarly aligned you will remember the information I have put up for consideration. That's all I hope for.

You have more allies than you think you do.
This public of a forum is not the place to organize it all.
The shoulder to shoulder thing is legion, but discussion of it all is not.
It just is there.
Recruiting will never be necessary. You only need look right, left and to your rear.
It may surprise you what will be there.

 

[MatthewP503]

This articles was written in 1995.

Sons of Liberty

No 14
Gary Hunt
August 22, 1995

When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands…
… That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.… it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide for new Guards for their future Security…

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

Frequently we speak of dissolution of the government, in one form or another. How often, however, do we consider what, exactly, this means?

Governments can be dissolved by a number of means. What used to be the most common was forceful encroachment by a conquering army. The effect was dissolution of the government and subsequent dissolution of the society, for every nation is composed of both government and society. Generally, under these circumstances, society was disrupted and scattered to the winds. This form of dissolution has not existed for quite some time.

Another form is when an enemy force dissolves government, and replaces that government with a government of their own choosing. The result, in this instance, is dissolution of government by non-violent means, and subsequent dissolution of the society, which is replaced, through a slow transitional process, by a society unlike the one that was first the source of the original government. We must not assume, in this circumstance, that the dissolution of government will, necessarily, take a forceful effort. The likelihood, in modern times, is that the dissolution of government, and subsequent dissolution of society will go unnoticed until history is revised and the transition is lost from existence, without a notice of its demise. Unless, of course, the efforts to dissolve the government and society is recognized in sufficient time to cast out the encroachers and restore both the society and the government.

If the form of government within a nation has any form of representative capacity, the means by which dissolution may occur will take one of three forms. First, the executive may begin to arbitrarily impose his will on the elected representatives and the people. Slowly the rule of law deviates from its original intent, and slowly the dissolution process occurs.

Second, by delivery of the people to the influence of a foreign power. Eventually, the legislative body finds themselves subjected to a set of rules not of their making, but to which they must adhere, which, again, results in the demise of the government, as was originally intended, and the society as it becomes subject to that foreign power.

Third, when the trust bestowed upon the legislative is betrayed, by whatever means, these same results of dissolution will occur. That trust, generally in the form of a constitution, forms a set of rules by which the government is empowered, with the belief that it will abide by such contract. Faith is necessary because there is a need to pass power to government so that it can conduct its business. When that power is directed in violation of the trust, ultimately it will be used to dissolve the society. The question here is, is the government dissolved as well? That answer shall be forthcoming.

Governments, of the nature of legislative authority, are created by, and subject to the will of the people. They are creatures of the will of the people, and their purpose for existence is only to administer the rights of the people, to the extent delegated, for the preservation of property and the protection of the rights of the people. There is no other purpose for government whose authority is of the people, than the preservation and protection of the People"s rights and property.

Once it is recognized that government has begun to deviate from its intended purpose, and the delivery to a foreign power is apparent, the people are more likely to presume that there is nothing that can be done to change that course. Many will accept that those chosen to legislate and administer are far wiser than they, and willingly subject themselves to the change that results in the conversion and dissolution. Within any society, it is far easier, especially so long as there is sufficient bread on the table, to allow the trend to continue, accepting that this is the evolution of government as it should be. Little do they recognize that what they are experiencing is tyranny in the same form that has imposed itself upon people throughout history. The despotic nature of government will advise them that they are freemen while they are, at the same time, wrapping the chains of slavery gently around their lives. This is a form of mockery that is little understood by most. What is understood even less is that they not only have the right to get out of it, but to prevent it.

The protection of property being the most significant cause for government, the power given to government must be limited to preclude any theft of property. When government, in an artful and crafty manner, begins the slow and meticulous theft of the property of the people, it has violated the sacred trust granted to it at its inception.

Government, then, when it does begin this process of conversion (dissolution of the intended government), has breached the trust of the people. The people, however, have not lost their right to the fundamental liberties, for the preservation of which the government was first formed, instead they have a responsibility to revise that form of government, to correct the errors and to rewrite the contract to provide for the protection of the property and the rights of the people to be secured.

Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "This is the way; walk in it."

http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/sol14.htm

 

[Just Jim]

Just to be clear, I am an American and I love my country. I have spent a lifetime building roads,bridges, hospitals,schools, banks and all the underground it takes to use them to help make this country great . It's the best country in the world and in normal times we have the best people. I will not bear arms against my country just because we have some corrupt officials running it. I will obey the law until the law threatens my life and the life of my family. Don't ask me to join your revolution.

The majority of the people here are peace loving people that are upset over losing our rights but I doubt you will get them to burn down their homes and neighborhoods in protest. We are not fools we don't want to fight but if it comes to a fight for Liberty every man her will make his choice by heart and head and do what he feels he needs to. We are not criminals, we are Americans.

 

[40calruler]

This articles was written in 1995.

Sons of Liberty

No 14
Gary Hunt
August 22, 1995

When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands…
… That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.… it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide for new Guards for their future Security…

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

Frequently we speak of dissolution of the government, in one form or another. How often, however, do we consider what, exactly, this means?

Governments can be dissolved by a number of means. What used to be the most common was forceful encroachment by a conquering army. The effect was dissolution of the government and subsequent dissolution of the society, for every nation is composed of both government and society. Generally, under these circumstances, society was disrupted and scattered to the winds. This form of dissolution has not existed for quite some time.

Another form is when an enemy force dissolves government, and replaces that government with a government of their own choosing. The result, in this instance, is dissolution of government by non-violent means, and subsequent dissolution of the society, which is replaced, through a slow transitional process, by a society unlike the one that was first the source of the original government. We must not assume, in this circumstance, that the dissolution of government will, necessarily, take a forceful effort. The likelihood, in modern times, is that the dissolution of government, and subsequent dissolution of society will go unnoticed until history is revised and the transition is lost from existence, without a notice of its demise. Unless, of course, the efforts to dissolve the government and society is recognized in sufficient time to cast out the encroachers and restore both the society and the government.

If the form of government within a nation has any form of representative capacity, the means by which dissolution may occur will take one of three forms. First, the executive may begin to arbitrarily impose his will on the elected representatives and the people. Slowly the rule of law deviates from its original intent, and slowly the dissolution process occurs.

Second, by delivery of the people to the influence of a foreign power. Eventually, the legislative body finds themselves subjected to a set of rules not of their making, but to which they must adhere, which, again, results in the demise of the government, as was originally intended, and the society as it becomes subject to that foreign power.

Third, when the trust bestowed upon the legislative is betrayed, by whatever means, these same results of dissolution will occur. That trust, generally in the form of a constitution, forms a set of rules by which the government is empowered, with the belief that it will abide by such contract. Faith is necessary because there is a need to pass power to government so that it can conduct its business. When that power is directed in violation of the trust, ultimately it will be used to dissolve the society. The question here is, is the government dissolved as well? That answer shall be forthcoming.

Governments, of the nature of legislative authority, are created by, and subject to the will of the people. They are creatures of the will of the people, and their purpose for existence is only to administer the rights of the people, to the extent delegated, for the preservation of property and the protection of the rights of the people. There is no other purpose for government whose authority is of the people, than the preservation and protection of the People"s rights and property.

Once it is recognized that government has begun to deviate from its intended purpose, and the delivery to a foreign power is apparent, the people are more likely to presume that there is nothing that can be done to change that course. Many will accept that those chosen to legislate and administer are far wiser than they, and willingly subject themselves to the change that results in the conversion and dissolution. Within any society, it is far easier, especially so long as there is sufficient bread on the table, to allow the trend to continue, accepting that this is the evolution of government as it should be. Little do they recognize that what they are experiencing is tyranny in the same form that has imposed itself upon people throughout history. The despotic nature of government will advise them that they are freemen while they are, at the same time, wrapping the chains of slavery gently around their lives. This is a form of mockery that is little understood by most. What is understood even less is that they not only have the right to get out of it, but to prevent it.

The protection of property being the most significant cause for government, the power given to government must be limited to preclude any theft of property. When government, in an artful and crafty manner, begins the slow and meticulous theft of the property of the people, it has violated the sacred trust granted to it at its inception.

Government, then, when it does begin this process of conversion (dissolution of the intended government), has breached the trust of the people. The people, however, have not lost their right to the fundamental liberties, for the preservation of which the government was first formed, instead they have a responsibility to revise that form of government, to correct the errors and to rewrite the contract to provide for the protection of the property and the rights of the people to be secured.

Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "This is the way; walk in it."

http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/sol14.htm

Really? I give up.

 

[MatthewP503]

You give up reading? My point was that 1995 was a long time ago to be talking about dissolution

 

[40calruler]

You give up reading?

Your posts...yep. Glad something finally got through. Nighty night sweet random guy!

 

[U201491]

This articles was written in 1995.

Sons of Liberty

No 14
Gary Hunt
August 22, 1995

When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands…
… That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.… it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide for new Guards for their future Security…

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

Frequently we speak of dissolution of the government, in one form or another. How often, however, do we consider what, exactly, this means?

Governments can be dissolved by a number of means. What used to be the most common was forceful encroachment by a conquering army. The effect was dissolution of the government and subsequent dissolution of the society, for every nation is composed of both government and society. Generally, under these circumstances, society was disrupted and scattered to the winds. This form of dissolution has not existed for quite some time.

Another form is when an enemy force dissolves government, and replaces that government with a government of their own choosing. The result, in this instance, is dissolution of government by non-violent means, and subsequent dissolution of the society, which is replaced, through a slow transitional process, by a society unlike the one that was first the source of the original government. We must not assume, in this circumstance, that the dissolution of government will, necessarily, take a forceful effort. The likelihood, in modern times, is that the dissolution of government, and subsequent dissolution of society will go unnoticed until history is revised and the transition is lost from existence, without a notice of its demise. Unless, of course, the efforts to dissolve the government and society is recognized in sufficient time to cast out the encroachers and restore both the society and the government.

If the form of government within a nation has any form of representative capacity, the means by which dissolution may occur will take one of three forms. First, the executive may begin to arbitrarily impose his will on the elected representatives and the people. Slowly the rule of law deviates from its original intent, and slowly the dissolution process occurs.

Second, by delivery of the people to the influence of a foreign power. Eventually, the legislative body finds themselves subjected to a set of rules not of their making, but to which they must adhere, which, again, results in the demise of the government, as was originally intended, and the society as it becomes subject to that foreign power.

Third, when the trust bestowed upon the legislative is betrayed, by whatever means, these same results of dissolution will occur. That trust, generally in the form of a constitution, forms a set of rules by which the government is empowered, with the belief that it will abide by such contract. Faith is necessary because there is a need to pass power to government so that it can conduct its business. When that power is directed in violation of the trust, ultimately it will be used to dissolve the society. The question here is, is the government dissolved as well? That answer shall be forthcoming.

Governments, of the nature of legislative authority, are created by, and subject to the will of the people. They are creatures of the will of the people, and their purpose for existence is only to administer the rights of the people, to the extent delegated, for the preservation of property and the protection of the rights of the people. There is no other purpose for government whose authority is of the people, than the preservation and protection of the People"s rights and property.

Once it is recognized that government has begun to deviate from its intended purpose, and the delivery to a foreign power is apparent, the people are more likely to presume that there is nothing that can be done to change that course. Many will accept that those chosen to legislate and administer are far wiser than they, and willingly subject themselves to the change that results in the conversion and dissolution. Within any society, it is far easier, especially so long as there is sufficient bread on the table, to allow the trend to continue, accepting that this is the evolution of government as it should be. Little do they recognize that what they are experiencing is tyranny in the same form that has imposed itself upon people throughout history. The despotic nature of government will advise them that they are freemen while they are, at the same time, wrapping the chains of slavery gently around their lives. This is a form of mockery that is little understood by most. What is understood even less is that they not only have the right to get out of it, but to prevent it.

The protection of property being the most significant cause for government, the power given to government must be limited to preclude any theft of property. When government, in an artful and crafty manner, begins the slow and meticulous theft of the property of the people, it has violated the sacred trust granted to it at its inception.

Government, then, when it does begin this process of conversion (dissolution of the intended government), has breached the trust of the people. The people, however, have not lost their right to the fundamental liberties, for the preservation of which the government was first formed, instead they have a responsibility to revise that form of government, to correct the errors and to rewrite the contract to provide for the protection of the property and the rights of the people to be secured.

Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "This is the way; walk in it."

<broken link removed>

We have all read it and are familiar with it and with the entire concept.
It is what the 2nd is all about. But this just is not the place to get into organizational details. Unless you welcome knocks on the door at wee hours of the day or night.
Just sayin................

One question. Are you an Oathkeeper? If not why not?

 

[MatthewP503]

Just to be clear, I am an American and I love my country. I have spent a lifetime building roads,bridges, hospitals,schools, banks and all the underground it takes to use them to help make this country great . It's the best country in the world and in normal times we have the best people. I will not bear arms against my country just because we have some corrupt officials running it. I will obey the law until the law threatens my life and the life of my family. Don't ask me to join your revolution.

The majority of the people here are peace loving people that are upset over losing our rights but I doubt you will get them to burn down their homes and neighborhoods in protest. We are not fools we don't want to fight but if it comes to a fight for Liberty every man her will make his choice by heart and head and do what he feels he needs to. We are not criminals, we are Americans.

To be clear.. I have never asked you to do this, nor have I suggested it. Do you think that the revolution happened in 1 day, or even a month? It didn't, and the only reason that force of arms was necessary is because the British government did not want to give up and the troops and some citizens were loyal to the king. If you think it is the same case today and the government will resort to force of arms against the people if they FORCE their will upon the government, than you have already thrown in the towel in favor of participating in a failed voting process.
IMHO

 

[MatthewP503]

We have all read it and are familiar with it and with the entire concept.
It is what the 2nd is all about. But this just is not the place to get into organizational details. Unless you welcome knocks on the door at wee hours of the day or night.
Just sayin................

One question. Are you an Oathkeeper? If not why not?

You have read the 1st paragraph. Have you read John Locke's 2nd treaties of government chapter 17: dissolution?

Google that.

 

[40calruler]

google Guantanamo Bay detention camp

 

[U201491]

You have read the 1st paragraph. Have you read John Locke's 2nd treaties of government chapter 17: dissolution?

Google that.

One question. Are you an Oathkeeper? If not why not?

 

[MatthewP503]

One question. Are you an Oathkeeper? If not why not?

Honestly I'm gonna start taking some of my own medicine and start working in my community again, trying to grasp people's view of government. I want to hear the will of the people.

 

[MatthewP503]

Like I said I hope you guys... at some point in time in the future..... read more than one paragraph in to a touchy subject... and if your scared of knocks on the door, than I'm sorry for you.