Case stuck in die - help please

[Crohnos01]

There you go! Nicely done Ownerus.

 

[Ownerus]

A 7/16-14 tap (coarse thread) would probably work too, but probably won't get a full depth thread. The matching bolt and nut will be easier to find at the local hardware store. As long as you wind the thread in relatively straight, you could thread up to the shoulder without breaking out the side and hitting the die but 3/8-1/2" deep should be plenty.

 

[Ownerus]

One more detail, if you use a socket as a spacer, it'll need to be 1/2" drive for a 7/16 bolt to clear it

 

[The Courier]

I saturated my die with Tri Flow and stuck it in the freezer over nite and was able to pound it out the next day. My scenario was a double whammy the rim sheared off and the expander ball seized inside the neck I thought that kind of luck happened in Vegas...

 

[USMC-03]

Sit down to dinner with my family and come back to all of these replies.

I'll get the die out of the freezer and try a tap; worth a shot.

 

[Member 5605]

Sit down to dinner with my family and come back to all of these replies.

I'll get the die out of the freezer and try a tap; worth a shot.

Brass melts sooner than steel...

Seriously though there is some serious gold advice above.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Speaking of freezing, why not water? Maybe just run it under the sink and toss it in the freezer. Ice splits mountains so why not

 

[woody06]

Just did some measuring and sacrificed one of my valuable berdan primed .308 cases to be sure. If you're just dealing with the totally headless case body, a 7/16-20 tap will do the same thing as my earlier description without having to drill. Just clamp the die in a vise, wind the tap in and cut 3/8 to 1/2 inch worth of thread inside the case. Get a bolt and a matching nut with enough length of thread on it that you can thread nut onto the bolt and then thread the bolt thru the socket into your newly threaded case. Winding the nut down should extract the case nicely without hammers or freezing.View attachment 381573

Thanks for posting this, Ownerus, looks like a great, workable idea. I've only had one case stuck in about 50 years of reloading and the manufacturer was local so I took it to him and it was removed the same day. The manufacturer is now out of business so I can't do it again. Sending a die to the manufacturer now would cost over a week of down time so I'll try your method next time I have a stuck case. If there is a next time.

 

[Velzey]

What brand die is it?

 

[Healer]

If its an RCBS, Redding or Lyman die you can double nut the sizing pin rod and top adjuster depending on the series die set you have. In most cases...no pun intended...you push them out with a bit of Kroil or other light oil or penetrating oil. If its a Lee or Hornady cam lock sizing pin style...care must be taken but as mentioned cold may be your friend but put your penetrating oil or whatever your using for a lubricant to help break it free first at room temperature and let be for a few minutes to soak. Then put it in a freezer for 1/2 hour or so...slight tap on the top with a brass hammer and it more often than not will break free. Apply pressure again and tap...they don't jump out but once they break free regardless if the base is half tore off and you still have bit of something to grab onto... you're working from the inside and leaving the bottom as a last resort for drilling and tapping. See the attached pic's. for what has worked for me on the occasion I get a stuck case...once the case comes free, unscrew the sizing ball and let it stay inside the case body...do not try to pry it off the case or through the case. More often than not you will bend the sizing rod and bugger up the sizing ball and pin. You can cut the case apart after you get the case out of the die and retrieve the sizing parts for assembly after its on the bench.

I haven't ruined or broke any dies using these process and that's with bases tore completely off. I have had friends bring theirs by for me to fix and after showing them once they have it in the bag unless they don't have the tools...they seldom have had to do it again.

I have had to resort to tapping out the bottom and then only once on a .223 SB sizing die...seemed to have plenty of sizing lube but $*it happens...I do this as a last resort only. Too easy to bugger up the die or sizing /pin rod. Although Ownerus has a good idea bare in mind the tap is harder than the die body and will mar and quite possibly ruin the die body or internals it if it comes in contact with it...stay under-size such as in a 1/4-20 or 5/16-18 tap for the bottom (this allows you to use common bolts from the hardware store if you don't have them) especially if you don't have all the taps and dies and machine shop type work is not your forte...this is my trade and been doing machine repair and maintenance for over 40+ years. If you have a stuck case take it to a g'smith or if you know a machinist or or a good millwright they should be able to fix it in a jiff...they have the tools if you don't and more often than not they aren't too bashful about showing you a thing or two if they are worth a damn...especially other shooters.

Someone on one of the threads or comments here was talking about adding heat to help relieve it... and allow it to be worked out...not a real good idea. The coefficient of expansion of steel vs. brass is quite different but the other side is that your work time is only maybe 10-15 seconds at best and then the brass case has swelled to the sides of the die body again and really tight...now back to cooling it again...be careful with that kind of an idea.

 

[USMC-03]

What brand die is it?

It's a Lee in .308; no great loss if unsalvageable.

There is a lot of good information here, my thanks to everyone.

 

[Ownerus]

There have been several mentions of the use of heat in this thread. There is one way of using heat plus the different coefficients of expansion that is counter-intuitive. I ran into this some years ago on a machine I was helping design that had a shrink-fit bronze bearing. In our prototypes we initially heated the steel housing to generate clearance so the bushing could be dropped in. The problem we discovered was the bushing would come to temperature with the housing, expand, and most of the interference designed into the bushing was "crushed" out of it, leaving a bushing that didn't have enough press fit left to stay in place in the application.

It might help in the situation of a stuck case to heat the whole die to around 350°F (not a high enough temperature to affect the hardness of a steel die) and let the greater expansion of the brass upset the metal enough to relax some of the compression once the die has cooled.

 

[Healer]

There have been several mentions of the use of heat in this thread. There is one way of using heat plus the different coefficients of expansion that is counter-intuitive. I ran into this some years ago on a machine I was helping design that had a shrink-fit bronze bearing. In our prototypes we initially heated the steel housing to generate clearance so the bushing could be dropped in. The problem we discovered was the bushing would come to temperature with the housing, expand, and most of the interference designed into the bushing was "crushed" out of it, leaving a bushing that didn't have enough press fit left to stay in place in the application.

It might help in the situation of a stuck case to heat the whole die to around 350°F (not a high enough temperature to affect the hardness of a steel die) and let the greater expansion of the brass upset the metal enough to relax some of the compression once the die has cooled.

As for your bronze to cast issue...you already had the cure...heat and cold....back to the coefficient of expansion of cast to bronze for optimal (high temp running vs. cool or cold). Freeze the bushing to allow for internal dimension on the "squeeze" you want while heating/warming the external body...finish machine internals minimal if necessary but that would be it. I've done this several times with large and small in and out in the field and not just with brass/bronze but antimony/babbit or cast iron journal bearings and many others...but that's another story...

Since USMC-03 has a Lee die try what I mentioned last night in a prior thread...if that doesn't work use a combination tap and puller arrangement along with a bit of penetrating oil..put some pressure on it, turn over and soft tap...mark the brass by the bottom of the die so that way if it starts to move you can tell easier. Since its a 308 casing it doesn't have quite as much taper to the case but will come off rather easy...probably easier than you think...Lee dies are bottom end taper and short forming only in a couple of small areas (full length sizing dies only) but not so on neck sizing dies..on neck sizers need to be treated differently when it comes to a Lee die set up.

 

[Caveman Jim]

You may be out of luck. I have a case still stuck in my 223 die. Never could get it out so I bought another set rather than send it in to get fixed. I tried ALL the suggestions I got and nothing worked.

Plus 1. I had a used 223 Hornady die that got stuck case (using RCBS lube) I scoured YouTube & tried them all to no avail so just tossed it & bought new Lee dies...

 

[Ownerus]

...you already had the cure...heat and cold....back to the coefficient of expansion of cast to bronze for optimal (high temp running vs. cool or cold). Freeze the bushing to allow for internal dimension on the "squeeze" you want while heating/warming the external body...

While not pertinent to stuck case removal, that's just what we did. Chilling the bronze in dry ice and alcohol to -100°F and warming the housing to +150°F gave us about the same clearance as the first go around of heating the housing to 400° only the bronze didn't heat enough to expand into the yield point leaving us with the desired interference.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

i was gonna say a blind pilot bearing puller could work too but i like the tap/bolt/socket method too

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

There is a lot of good information here, my thanks to everyone.

I agree; great thread/topic

 

[Healer]

While not pertinent to stuck case removal, that's just what we did. Chilling the bronze in dry ice and alcohol to -100°F and warming the housing to +150°F gave us about the same clearance as the first go around of heating the housing to 400° only the bronze didn't heat enough to expand into the yield point leaving us with the desired interference.

I know sometimes it can be a bugger and that's putting it mildly...I pretty much had to take a situation like that to the nth degree to have everything fall into place but I still had to field bore the bushing a couple of thousandths to have enough clearance on startup...

 

[Healer]

i was gonna say a blind pilot bearing puller could work too but i like the tap/bolt/socket method too

Each of the different methods all can work but some people...including me on occasion, get a bit flustered when something like this happens...stuck case issue...especially when we had plans to get something done or going out to shoot the next day or weekend.

As my Dad used to say...just when you think things are going fine Murphy's law applies and steps in to remind you that if its mechanical (or any other thing when you have something planned) that which can happen will and sometimes for no reason but it does...take a break from it and don't get centered on doing it one way...what worked once may not work the next so always keep your options open and try different ways even if it something new.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Each of the different methods all can work but some people...including me on occasion, get a bit flustered when something like this happens...stuck case issue...especially when we had plans to get something done or going out to shoot the next day or weekend.

As my Dad used to say...just when you think things are going fine Murphy's law applies and steps in to remind you that if its mechanical (or any other thing when you have something planned) that which can happen will and sometimes for no reason but it does...take a break from it and don't get centered on doing it one way...what worked once may not work the next so always keep your options open and try different ways even if it something new.

i fix cars for a living. i live by your dads advice he gave to u.sometimes i iust need to stop and move on to the next car. i have had dreams on how to fix something at work, go in the next day and do exactly as i dreamt and it solves the issue. its happened 2-3 times.