Can you handle a shootout? Video showing reg students in chl senario.

[clearconscience]

When I posted this I was looking more for feedback on training and how people train in that perspective.

Obviously the video was made to deter people from carrying.

I don't think any one here has any other feeling than having the right and taking part in carrying is the only way to live.

I hate that every post always turns into bashing something or someone. We are so ingrained in debate and defending our 2nd A rights and the right to carry that we find arguments in any discussion.
I don't think I've ever been in a "discussion" in this forum that didn't turn into a argument. Myself being just as guilty as anyone.

"fighting on the internet is like racing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded. "

 

[MA Duce]

I think these videos are an excellent example of data skewing to prove a point. I could set up any experiment with pre-determined outcomes to prove any point you want, ( excepting alien encounters or Elvis sightings perhaps) This is NOT science..it is propaganda.

 

[darkminstrel]

Came across the video looked interesting...

This whole scenario was created as a hit piece against CCW holders. It's absolutely slanted negatively in every way possible.

 

[Siglvr]

I agree that this was a setup designed to get a specific outcome. Even the best trained folks can get the short end of the stick. Witness the horrible story of the asswipe who walked into a diner full of police officers, got the drop on them and lit the place up killing one or more of the officers in Washington state not that long ago. The story is fuzzy, I think he got return fire and took a fatal hit himself but I've forgotten the details.

It can happen to the best.

 

[gunnails]

Training= a heck of a good idea.

The video is a BS hit piece, but the thread is about training.

I have never had a CHL and have never carried concealed or otherwise. A properly trained person will have a much better chance, the degree of your training will increase your odds.

However I am of the belief that anyone legally able to own a fire arm should be able to carry without the need for a CHL, or any training.

My thought being we all deserve the right to be prepared to defend ourselves, some such as me are unlikely ever to be a good accurate shot or prepared for the multitude of scenarios that we may encounter. So what, I still deserve a sluggers chance to at least try to defend my self if needed.

Even some one completely incompetent with firearms has in theory, the ability and right to defend them selves when armed. This right shall be unabridged.

I have never carried concealed or otherwise.

Lets say my wifes new boy friend calls me and says he is going to lay a beating on me at some future unknown time, that might be a scenario for me to start to carry a weapon. Why should I need training or a license before I am allowed to protect my self.

Training = a heck of a good idea, in my opinion however should not be a requirement.

 

[parallax]

Did anyone else notice... that they put a large binder notebook in front of the guy with the gun sitting?.. I believe they did it so the shooters would know who they needed to be shooting first.. very slated.. pretty much a joke that the general public eats up.

 

[lonegunman]

When I posted this I was looking more for feedback on training and how people train in that perspective.

Obviously the video was made to deter people from carrying.

I don't think any one here has any other feeling than having the right and taking part in carrying is the only way to live.

How do you train for what exactly? Cops shooting up classrooms? Loons in McDonald's? Random robbers at the ATM? Walking in on a robbery? There is an endless number of ways you can find trouble where you need your ccw. The best training in the world is awareness, holding your head up and looking around, seeing whats down the road, in the shadows or behind the bushes. Parking in lit spots or away from choke points, locking your doors and windows. The best gun fight is the one you avoid, in my opinion.

I had a buddy who was involved in a shoot out in front of a Quikie Mart last year. He walked in and got a soda and bag of chips, Mookie was standing out front slinging dope and told the hoochie with him to "watch me jack this white guy". As my buddy walked up to his truck he kept an eye on Mookie(Mook was grabbing his junk and getting all shifty, a typical sign one of them is about to attack). He walked the long way to his truck and when he went to open the door Mookie lunged at him and stuck a 38 snubbie to his head.

While Mookie was squeezing his own nuts and looking around muttering "Be Coo",,,,,,Be coo,,,Be coo,,,,,,,,,,," My buddy drew his carry gun and fired at point blank range, Mookie fell backwards and fired into the air towards my buddy. As quick as cats they seperated in two different directions. When my buddy got to the rear of the truck and pivoted to face Mookie, Mookie was at the corner of the store facing him. The looked at each other and the felon ran away.

Whole incident took less than 60 seconds, neither shot connected, all on full color video with audio. Witnesses said,"Yeah Mookie say he gonna rob dat whitey." Mookie had many priors and is in jail looking at 30 years.


My buddy is capable of winning on a national level and is a gun builder. He practiced with the little gun he carried fairly often and he said it was the smoothest fastest draw he ever recalled making. He missed from 18 inches, but in his defense he was moving to avoid catching one in the dome himself. The bad guy was so suprised by the gunshot he fell to the ground backwards and went for cover asap. If he had chose to press home the attack it would have been 50/50. They were equally armed.


My father had a completely different plan and I agree with him that when guns come out, you work without mercy and use every bit of surprise to your advantage. My Dad was a mean man from a young age, he served in two wars and soldiered professionally in the 1950's and early 60's. He always said he could sew the hole in his coat pocket closed faster than any man could draw. He carried a concealed hammer 38 snub and after he died I found two old trench coats with "repairs". Since he lived well into his 80's, I'm guessing his theory was correct.

 

[Mark W.]

Yes but if four people in that lecture room had been armed the trained attacker most likely would have been engaged by at least one of them and shot. The girls round that hit the attacker in the inside of the groin would have bleed him out in about a minute his ability to stand would have gone away in about 30sec. Granted that is a very long time in a gun fight. But still.

 

[Scott]

Hitting the deck would be the correct thing to do.

Yes it is. I have done it enough to know better. Sometimes I hear backfire and hit the deck. Once you experience combat you learn a lot and if you don't learn or listen you die. Simple equation.

 

[DERGLOCKINMEISTER]

Wait ! I know ! They should have just called the police and waited for professional help to arrive ! Don't plan to protect yourself if that's your choice , but as for me , I'll just keep up on my practice and keep hoping I'll never need it . If you are expecting fair - unbiased reporting from these jokers , then you will be disappointed every time . I may be injured or worse in a gunfight , but I won't go down without stating my sincere opposition !

 

[glockguy]

ok I will guaranty that almost all of us have practiced drawing our weapons and shooting i do not carry a gun unless i know i can draw it from where its at quickly and efficiently. the clothes they were wearing were baggy and i bet they were not given a choice on how they would like to carry they firearm either. put any of us in that class and I bet we'd all do better then them..

 

[gunslinger1911]

ok lets stop...all i'm hearing is people saying something like "rah rah rah, i can draw my blah blah blah, baggy shirt, police vs. stupid noobs, they know where the gun is sitting..." yeah? so whats yer point?!? you try and draw iron on someone who's got the drop on you like that and you'll die just the same...id be one of the first people out that door armed or not, and if i WAS armed i'd fly out that door, find some cover, draw a bead on the doorway and call the police! but that's just me...maybe you're fast.

 

[brianjronk]

I'm going to throw out some numbers. They are in no way accurate, but I will do my best to lean to ABC's side, and it will still prove my point.

If every student was armed - attacker gets maybe 3-4 shots off, resulting in 2 deaths. (That's fast, accurate, shooting on his part)

If 4 students were armed - attacker gets maybe 3-4 shots off, resulting in 2 deaths. (That's fast, accurate, shooting on his part)

If 1 student is armed - attacker gets 10 shots off, resulting in 5 deaths. 20% chance he kills the armed student and continues shooting spree. I'll even play along with this video where the attacker is strictly going for the armed student first, that ups the percentage to say, 90%.

If no one is armed - every single student dies without contest.

If it were me, I'd take that 10% chance of surviving...

 

[FreakyStylie]

The videos looked like a standard magic act. It was crafted to draw attention from the actual topic. Training. If I train to drive a semi, it's not going to help me win a stock car race. Target practice is only going to hone your skills in shooting at stationary objects like deer or an attacker that stands in a doorway waiting for you to take proper aim. It should have been tailored to remind people that attackers are not going to act like targets, and to train appropriately. IDK, just my thoughts.

 

[mjbskwim]

My father had a completely different plan and I agree with him that when guns come out, you work without mercy and use every bit of surprise to your advantage. My Dad was a mean man from a young age, he served in two wars and soldiered professionally in the 1950's and early 60's. He always said he could sew the hole in his coat pocket closed faster than any man could draw. He carried a concealed hammer 38 snub and after he died I found two old trench coats with "repairs". Since he lived well into his 80's, I'm guessing his theory was correct.

HAHAHA This is what I have said on this and other forums endlessly.
Y'all can be all the cowboy you want to be and I'll have my gun in my hand and shoot thru my pocket.
Love it

Fun thing would be the look on the bad guy's face when he figures out you have the gun pointed at his rapidly shrinking junk.

 

[MA Duce]

ok lets stop...all i'm hearing is people saying something like "rah rah rah, i can draw my blah blah blah, baggy shirt, police vs. stupid noobs, they know where the gun is sitting..." yeah? so whats yer point?!? you try and draw iron on someone who's got the drop on you like that and you'll die just the same...id be one of the first people out that door armed or not, and if i WAS armed i'd fly out that door, find some cover, draw a bead on the doorway and call the police! but that's just me...maybe you're fast.

It is easy to sit at your keyboard and decide how brave you are, and how you will react to the adrenaline orgasm your body dumps when the real world hits your training. Having it happen, and experiencing the tunnel vision, the freaking out of control muscle groups that used to be your body, and the totality of what is happening is another ball of wax entirely. No matter who you are, and how you train, when it really happens, and you manage to survive it, you will realize that you had no idea what it would be like. Your only hope lies in realistic, repetitive training, and the luck of the draw.

 

[HollisOR]

ok lets stop...all i'm hearing is people saying something like "rah rah rah, i can draw my blah blah blah, baggy shirt, police vs. stupid noobs, they know where the gun is sitting..." yeah? so whats yer point?!? you try and draw iron on someone who's got the drop on you like that and you'll die just the same...id be one of the first people out that door armed or not, and if i WAS armed i'd fly out that door, find some cover, draw a bead on the doorway and call the police! but that's just me...maybe you're fast.

About the only thing I would add, I would hope to move like I was greased lightning, out the door.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Why did the other students have to wear helmets if the cop knew ahead of time who he was going to shoot? He could have taken his time and lined up a headshot while the "defender" was pulling up the extra 3' of t-shirt.

 

[spreck]

What kind of bothers me is that ABC didnt bother to go out and recruit CCW holders for this drill, I am so tired of half assed journalism I cant even watch the so called (news) anymore. If I am going to make a story so slanted at least get some of the people your targeting involved. And oh boy to have x-ray vision and know your target before you make entry would be so great.

 

[addiction]

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