California wildlife official who shot Idaho mountain lion refuses to resign.

[sandman1212]

let's examine what is legal in other jurisdictions around the world

clubbing baby seals (russia)
selling rhino horn (asia)
child labor(pretty much anywhere but here and europe)
stealing others ideas and intellectual property (china most asian countries)
using naked lesbians to sell orange juice on tv (europe, woo hoo!)
female circumcision (middle east)
murder on religious grounds (mostly middle east)

All of these things are legal else where around the world, why not here? we are really missing out!
did not
(personally I am only for the naked lesbians on TV part, I could probably do without the rest)

What is your point?!?! We do not live in the mentioned countries, nor did he go to another country and do something that is found immoral or wrong throughout the U.S.! He went to another state that has constituents just like Kalifornia, that voted and chose to have the right to kill a dangerous predator to enable easier management of said predator, before they overpopulate and start harvesting their kids for lunch. Since your precious Kalifornia voted to take away this valuable management tool, the amount of cougar attacks on humans has equaled the rest of the US and Canada. Coincidence, I think not!

 

[soberups]

If it came up that he was having sex with children in a country where it was perfectly legal to do so, what would be wrong with that?

What if he came home to his job as a grade school teacher?

Sounds like this guy is lacking in the moral department.I don't care for anyone who is so obviously a politician, using his appointed position as a rung on the ladder to something else. Anyone who has such a position should take a stand for that position in their public and personal lives.

I don't agree with California's stand on many things, especially wildlife management, but that doesn't affect my position. Anyone who would be so duplicitous should not have the trust of the public.

BTW I am a proud member of calguns and a supporter of the calguns foundation, firmly believing that if you believe in the second amendment you have to take action.

It is a false argument to compare raping children to legally harvesting wildlife.

If there even were a country where child rape was somehow "legal", that would not change the fact that, unlike hunting an animal, it is a morally repugnant thing to do.

 

[RoddyWA]

My daughter and family live in Northern Idaho, there have been sightings of several big cats in and around the town she lives in. She's had turkeys, deer, and even a moose in her front yard. That's prime cat meals. A guy who lives in the same area had to shoot a grizzly in his yard when it started to move towards his children who were outside in the yard. Predators need to be kept in check. If you protect them too much you run into very frequent encounters with people. My nephew has to fire his rifle to scare a cat when the group he was hunting with found one stalking them.

 

[fd15k]

It is a false argument to compare raping children to legally harvesting wildlife.

If there even were a country where child rape was somehow "legal", that would not change the fact that, unlike hunting an animal, it is a morally repugnant thing to do.

Actually the argument might stand depending on the context.

 

[sandman1212]

Actually the argument might stand depending on the context.

...but not in this one!

 

[fd15k]

My daughter and family live in Northern Idaho, there have been sightings of several big cats in and around the town she lives in. She's had turkeys, deer, and even a moose in her front yard. That's prime cat meals. A guy who lives in the same area had to shoot a grizzly in his yard when it started to move towards his children who were outside in the yard. Predators need to be kept in check. If you protect them too much you run into very frequent encounters with people. My nephew has to fire his rifle to scare a cat when the group he was hunting with found one stalking them.

So the question is, why do cats go into the city to hunt ? Is it only because there are "too many of them" ? Or perhaps the cities have expanded too much ? Or perhaps there is not enough traditional food for the cats ? I'm not an expert, just wondering.

 

[fd15k]

...but not in this one!

Can't tell at this point, he wasn't too clear

 

[sandman1212]

So the question is, why do cats go into the city to hunt ? Is it only because there are "too many of them" ? Or perhaps the cities have expanded too much ? Or perhaps there is not enough traditional food for the cats ? I'm not an expert, just wondering.

All of the above, but mainly because Cougars are territorial and and while finding their own territory, if a town or city happen to be in that territory, then it also becomes a hunting ground. A Couger will stay in the same proximate square mile radius for it's lifetime.

 

[fd15k]

All of the above, but mainly because Cougars are territorial and and while finding their own territory, if a town or city happen to be in that territory, then it also becomes a hunting ground. A Couger will stay in the same proximate square mile radius for it's lifetime.

Understood, thanks.

 

[BroncoFan]

I guess what coop44 means is if that given official supports whichever restrictions in CA on hunting those animals due to some
political/moral beliefs (think PETA's "meat is murder" for example), as opposed to rational wildlife management, and then he goes
and does that very thing in another state, it really puts his ethics into question.

HUH!?! How do you know how he voted? Do you support every single law/regulation in Oregon? If not, better move. I would imagine that if he agreed with the voters of Kalifornia then ergo he would NOT be in Idaho hunting cougar. Casino gambling is all but illegal in Oregon (excepting on the rez). So if an Oregon official goes on vacation, on his own time, and hits the blackjack table in Las Vegas he should resign?
That's what representative gov't is all about. The voters in Kalifornia decided cougar hunting should be illegal. The voters in Idaho decided cougar hunting should be legal. Just where is the moral dilemma here?

 

[fd15k]

HUH!?! How do you know how he voted? Do you support every single law/regulation in Oregon? If not, better move. I would imagine that if he agreed with the voters of Kalifornia then ergo he would NOT be in Idaho hunting cougar. Casino gambling is all but illegal in Oregon (excepting on the rez). So if an Oregon official goes on vacation, on his own time, and hits the blackjack table in Las Vegas he should resign?
That's what representative gov't is all about. The voters in Kalifornia decided cougar hunting should be illegal. The voters in Idaho decided cougar hunting should be legal. Just where is the moral dilemma here?

I don't know how he voted or what he did in his position. But I also implied that there is no way to judge him until that is known. As for the representative politics, there is nothing wrong with it as long as:

a) if one claims he believes in something, gets elected/appointed because of that, and he keeps up with that claim
b) one doesn't claim he believes in something, but instead states he will serve the people with their best interests in mind

So the question in this case would be whether that guy did a) or b).

 

[DonovanJay]

That conclusion is based on what ?

Which conclusion would you like me to justify? I am not at all happy to point out that California's laws against cougar hunting reflect a poor understanding about predator management, or how they classify feral swine as a protected game animal despite the enormous costs to both property owners and certainly to the environment. CA's even have the nerve to charge for tags to hunt feral swine. Or perhaps how there are entire counties which are overseen by only one fish and game officer. I could go on and on about much less interesting ways that CA's have shown ignorance towards wildlife management, but I am unfortunately going to be ignored by anyone who disagrees with these statements all the same.

The part where the article says:
Richards also wrote that "contrary to so many erroneous reports," he didn't use a high-powered rifle and "we did dine on Mountain Lion for dinner" that night.

That's where I got the crazy notion that he did in fact eat the cougar meat.

 

[fd15k]

Which conclusion would you like me to justify? I am not at all happy to point out that California's laws against cougar hunting reflect a poor understanding about predator management, or how they classify feral swine as a protected game animal despite the enormous costs to both property owners and certainly to the environment. CA's even have the nerve to charge for tags to hunt feral swine. Or perhaps how there are entire counties which are overseen by only one fish and game officer. I could go on and on about much less interesting ways that CA's have shown ignorance towards wildlife management, but I am unfortunately going to be ignored by anyone who disagrees with these statements all the same.

Well, I was wondering if you were familiar with some academic study, or perhaps it's part of your occupation (thus expertise). It's hard to believe that a random person on the firearms forum (even if a hunter) knows more about wildlife management than the Fish & Game of the third largest state in the nation (1st by population).

 

[DonovanJay]

I honestly did not and still do not mean to offend, and I apologize if that would the way it was taken. However, the Fish and Game of the third largest state is nothing to be modeled after. The issues I addressed in my post are in fact serious ones with far reaching consequences which affect more than the most populated state in the nation. Also just because I don't flash my credentials or brag about my education does NOT mean that I'm just another random person on the firearms forum. Just saying. Again, I truly don't mean disrespect, only to express an opinion clearly different from your own.

 

[EMP9596]

Mods... I am the OP... Close this thread please.

It has just turned nothing but a verbal pissing match.

Sorry I put it up.

mjd

 

[sandman1212]

Well, I was wondering if you were familiar with some academic study, or perhaps it's part of your occupation (thus expertise). It's hard to believe that a random person on the firearms forum (even if a hunter) knows more about wildlife management than the Fish & Game of the third largest state in the nation (1st by population).

Many hunters that care about the sport keep up with the science and control behind the sport! Unfortunately even with knowledge, and facts, laws are passed by people that do not know, nor truly care about what they are doing with their vote. take for instance the state of Oregon, most of the votes come from Multnomah county that do not need to be truly concerned about what over preditation do to livestock herds on the eastern side of the state, but yet they have the biggest say, such as with hunting with dogs and the hunters know what happens when too many predators are in an area. The natural food chaon gets skewed and the predators must expand their hunting area, the same thing that will happen with Wolves if the state (Multnomah county) chooses to protect them.

 

[fd15k]

I honestly did not and still do not mean to offend, and I apologize if that would the way it was taken. However, the Fish and Game of the third largest state is nothing to be modeled after. The issues I addressed in my post are in fact serious ones with far reaching consequences which affect more than the most populated state in the nation. Also just because I don't flash my credentials or brag about my education does NOT mean that I'm just another random person on the firearms forum. Just saying. Again, I truly don't mean disrespect, only to express an opinion clearly different from your own.

I'm not offended, especially since that's not my state Just trying to be objective And I really don't know if they're doing their job well or not.

 

[CatCow]

Mods... I am the OP... Close this thread please.

It has just turned nothing but a verbal pissing match.

Sorry I put it up.

mjd

Sometimes you just need a good train wreck to finish the day

 

[DonovanJay]

Many hunters that care about the sport keep up with the science and control behind the sport! Unfortunately even with knowledge, and facts, laws are passed by people that do not know, nor truly care about what they are doing with their vote. take for instance the state of Oregon, most of the votes come from Multnomah county that do not need to be truly concerned about what over preditation do to livestock herds on the eastern side of the state, but yet they have the biggest say, such as with hunting with dogs and the hunters know what happens when too many predators are in an area. The natural food chaon gets skewed and the predators must expand their hunting area, the same thing that will happen with Wolves if the state (Multnomah county) chooses to protect them.

It's okay, I think we kissed and made up.

That is very good point about Multnoma county. I wish that there was less political divides around guns and hunting. I share some concerns over the wolf packs in Oregon potentially causing property damage, attacking livestock and pets, etc. More disconcerting are the impacts that the reintroduction of top level predators could have on the ecosystem. The last I checked we were up to 5 packs of wolves, and they are being very closely monitored, which is very exciting for us in biology, and somewhat unsettling for us with pets and livestock who live in rural areas. Either way I am interested to see what will happen.

 

[Buddhalux]

Sure, some engineering is done here. Take Intel for example - it has some factories and offices in Oregon, but it's still a California-based
corporation. Also there is a lot more besides low level hardware. Btw, add Juniper Networks and Hewlett-Packard to the list

That's true that the head quarters is in Santa Clara. However, all design work is done here in Oregon for CPU's and chipsets. Also, there is no product manufacturing in Kali.