California introduces new law restricting people to 55 gal water per day

[Cavedweller]

Sorry I was late to respond I was filling my 5000 gallon pool. What was the discussion about ?

Good one!

 

[The Heretic]

Who decides what is a "fair share?" Sounds good in theory, but always falls flat on its face in practice. It's a favorite tactic of the left, esp. when it comes to taxes. "You're not paying your fair share." Over and over. Tell me what my fair share is, then shut up.

Anyway, we weren't talking about air and water. We were talking about land.

Actually, we are talking about water - that is what this thread is about. But we can talk about land too if you want.

There is a difference between "fair" and what the left calls "fair share". The latter is doublespeak for "if you earn more, you get to 'contribute' more to those who can't or don't". As to the former, air and water, fair means you can't just come along and claim whatever you want and to hell with everybody else.

There is a difference between taxes on income and land or water or air. Income is something you worked for, air and water you share with everybody else - you didn't earn it - but you need it.

Land, you may have bought it, but at some point in time someone came along and just said "oh, I am here first, so this is mine", or more likely, they came along and said "I don't give a **** that you were here first, that your people have been here for millennia, I have more people and better weapons, so we are going to take this land from you. Too bad, so sad - now **** off and die." - i.e., it was stolen by force. Buying something that was stolen doesn't mean you own it now.

Moreover, there is 'private' and public land. Public land is shared and we all get a say in how it is taken care of.

Water, because we have so many people now (more than the earth can support), is a public 'good' that needs to be shared and administered. You can't just drill as many wells as you want because wells are not a hole in the ground that contains a silo of water - they tap into public aquifers, i.e., underground lakes - so if you pump water out of them, you are probably sharing water with not only your neighbor, but pretty much everybody within miles of your well.

If you have municipal water, then that municipality has every right to ration water if necessary so that each person has enough water for life - to drink, sanitation and cooking. If you waste water on landscaping or just plain waste it by letting it go down the drain without putting it to some useful purpose, then the municipality has every right to somehow control that waste.

You also don't have the right to block a stream or river to store the water behind a private dam.

Land. Similar principals. You don't have the right to dump toxic waste on your land because it can leak onto a neighbor's property or into the aquifers. You don't have the right to change the land in a way that can lead to damage to your neighbor's property due to runoff. And so on.

We have the rules, regulations and laws because we have to share these resources.

 

[Diamondback]

As to the former, air and water, fair means you can't just come along and claim whatever you want and to hell with everybody else.

You mean like Commief*ckhole literally did to Arizona's water at gunpoint?

 

[Cavedweller]

Actually, we are talking about water - that is what this thread is about. But we can talk about land too if you want.

I meant with respect to this comment - "Unfortunately, increasing amounts of farm acreage are being converted from food production to landscape plant production." Not the whole thread.

"Public land is shared and we all get a say in how it is taken care of." True, but I was responding to your comment about private farmland.

 

[The Heretic]

I meant with respect to this comment - "Unfortunately, increasing amounts of farm acreage are being converted from food production to landscape plant production." Not the whole thread.

"Public land is shared and we all get a say in how it is taken care of." True, but I was responding to your comment about private farmland.

Ok. No. I was not inferring that government (i.e., us) gets to tell a farmer what crops to raise. My father's farm was converted from food crops to landscape by the buyers. I was using that as one of the practices that will (or are) cause problems down the road, not just with food production, but with water - an example of how land and water can be wasted. At some point, some areas will need to ration water (or as in the case of Calif., need to ration it now), and watering landscaping is much less important than using water for drinking/food and hygiene. It is less important than using water to maintain the environment. Landscaping is just cosmetic.

Farms converting from food production to landscaping plants is one example of how our priorities are screwed up and how urbanization and population growth contribute to that problem.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Maybe it is time for California to build some desalination plants along the coast if water is going to be a problem.

I've been saying that for many years but I believe that they are worried about where they're going to dump the salt.

 

[The Heretic]

I've been saying that for many years but I believe that they are worried about where they're going to dump the salt.

As a byproduct - if it is relatively pure, I don't think they would have any problem selling it.

It is when you use salt or brackish water/etc. for irrigation, or simply use too much irrigation, that calcium becomes an issue on the ground and can literally kill any vegetation.

Desalination is not magic. It is used as the last resort because of the expense and energy required. There are technologies that are supposed to make desalination more efficient, but they have not made it out of the laboratory and into production yet.

 

[mkwerx]

Time to ban bathtubs, mandate shower nozzle timers with flow regulators, water catchment and recycling facilities, ban grass lawns and non-native water intensive plants, deport illegals, ban non-food agriculture use for crop watering (no more pot farms using "public" water or well water for pot farming, recycled piss or what falls from the sky only for the weed! Same for nursery plants that are decorative and not food bearing)

Then Arizona and Nevada need to ration water they send, allowing no more than say, 100 gallons per day per legal documented resident, to be charged a reasonable rate, say that of the current price per gallon for Phoenix or Las Vegas end users.

How much water is held in pipes in those big liberal owned mansions in Hollyweird? Maybe there should be size limits on private single family residences, and limits on the allowable amount of contiguous non-agricultural land owned. say a limit of no more than 1,500 sq feet for a single family dwelling, with an allowable exemption for families of 6 or greater. And no more than 1/4 acre per single family dwelling. Give em a 2 year grace period to dismantle, convert, or liquidate their overly large homes. Treat mansions like AR15S

 

[bbbass]

Who cares.

Exactly what I was thinking!!!!

 

[etrain16]

Exactly what I was thinking!!!!

We might care if they get more serious about talks they've had about running a water pipeline from Oregon/Washington to California. They've discussed the possibility for years - only thing likely holding them back is the cost to build it. But to be certain, their water problems could become ours down the road if they get with their buddies in Salem and Olympia to get our water shipped down there. In that sense, I do definitely care what they do down there. As it is we already pipe a lot of electricity down there.

 

[Cavedweller]

Ok. No. I was not inferring that government (i.e., us) gets to tell a farmer what crops to raise. My father's farm was converted from food crops to landscape by the buyers. I was using that as one of the practices that will (or are) cause problems down the road, not just with food production, but with water - an example of how land and water can be wasted. At some point, some areas will need to ration water (or as in the case of Calif., need to ration it now), and watering landscaping is much less important than using water for drinking/food and hygiene. It is less important than using water to maintain the environment. Landscaping is just cosmetic.

Farms converting from food production to landscaping plants is one example of how our priorities are screwed up and how urbanization and population growth contribute to that problem.

That's a matter of perspective, isn't it?. Nursery stock is a high value crop that produces more revenue, and therefore tax income for the state, than say a wheat field. Also provides more jobs per acre, so more people can support their families with productive labor. Landscaping enhances our environment, and makes cities more pleasant places to live, rather than just concrete jungles.

We don't have a food problem - yet. Talk about waste, so much food is thrown away. If food becomes scarce, prices will rise to the point that land will go back to its production. Nursery stock would be a less profitable alternative. The market, if left alone, takes care of everything.

The same can be said for water. Nobody is getting it at a discount, that I know of. I am paying the city more than it costs to provide it. That implies no real shortage. Let the price rise as the actual cost of production goes up, and people will be incentivized to conserve. No need to ban this or that. One man's waste is another man's livelihood.

I don't drink alcohol, so I could say land put into vineyards or hop yards is "wasted" (or pot farms, for that matter). And the water used to irrigate them is wasted. Screw all those people who work in the industry. Screw all those people who enjoy the product.

Once you start down that road it's very dangerous. It's all about who gets to decide, and what they think is important. You may think you have the answer in banning this or that, but give someone else that power and it can go bad on you real fast.

I don't mind playing the free market advocate here.

 

[bbbass]

We might care if they get more serious about talks they've had about running a water pipeline from Oregon/Washington to California. They've discussed the possibility for years - only thing likely holding them back is the cost to build it. But to be certain, their water problems could become ours down the road if they get with their buddies in Salem and Olympia to get our water shipped down there. In that sense, I do definitely care what they do down there. As it is we already pipe a lot of electricity down there.

Well, the "who cares" for me is imbued with the idea that because they are responsible for what happens there, they are on their own. OR & WA state gov is nuts to give water to them but our leaders want the $$$.

Calif allows unrestricted immigration. Calif allow hyper lawn growth (and no I'm not a "greenie"). Calif allows all "their" rivers to flow unrestricted to the sea in order to protect species like the snail darter. The Sacramento and Klamath rivers alone are enough to meet their entire water budget. Soooo it's their progressive ideology that get's them into trouble. Our dear leaders have the same ideology so won't let Calif suffer the consequences.

I say screw em. All of them!!

 

[ma96782]

Take a music break.....

Aloha, Mark

 

[bbbass]

BTW, I thought "The Population Bomb" had been debunked.

For us IMO it's not so much that our population has gone from 76M in 1600 to 360M in 2018, but it's where population has settled. Massive land tracts remain underpopulated across the country while the coasts continue to amass.

But, we're all gonna die!!!!

 

[mkwerx]

Fools settled in a desert, terraformed it, but bubblegum about not having enough water. Wyoming and Idaho and Montana have lots of land and water. But they get cold.

Damn proggies would mess those states up anyway.

 

[MrMillspecer]

Getting caught with a water gun is two felony counts.

 

[bbbass]

Have done so in Montana and are working hard at it in Idaho. Sad to see. Colorado has been lost for decades.

So how do states that have arid land survive? They have low population. Except for AZ. They use as much water as Calif.

 

[Argonaut]

I've been saying that for many years but I believe that they are worried about where they're going to dump the salt.

They have. There is a large facility in Santa Barbara that I think is closed now. (Seems it was reopened in the last couple of years with more efficient upgraded machinery) The cost of operation is very expensive. I have maintained for decades that the coastal cities need to develop salt water water systems like we use on my boats. A lot of uses that salt water is perfectly good for and save the more valueable fresh water for areas it is required. Products like ivory soap were specifically designed to be used in Salt water on ships. They had both kinds of water in places like showers, fresh water was only used for a final rinse but even that isn't really nessisary. It also works well applications like laundry, toilets all sorts of applications. Your skin won't even wrinkle up in it with prolonged exposure like in fresh water. We had a portable fire system that we drove from one of our large tugs, they would run hoses with portable hydrants up the street to fight large fires. That tug had a 2000 hp electric fire pump that took water right out of the ocean and could power a 6-12 inch line for miles to wherever it was required. Salt water is also used as cooling for the nuclear power plants on the coast.

 

[Caveman Jim]

They have. There is a large facility in Santa Barbara that I think is closed now. The cost of operation is very expensive. I have maintained for decades that the coastal cities need to develop salt water water systems like we use on my boats. A lot of uses that salt water is perfectly good for and save the more valueable fresh water for areas it is required. Products like ivory soap were specifically designed to be used in Salt water on ships. They had both kinds of water in places like showers, fresh water was only used for a final rinse but even that isn't really nessisary. It also works well applications like laundry, toilets all sorts of applications. Your skin won't even wrinkle up in it with prolonged exposure like in fresh water. We had a portable fire system that we drove from one of our large tugs, they would run hoses with portable hydrants up the street to fight large fires. That tug had a 2000 hp electric fire pump that took water right out of the ocean and could power a 6-12 inch line for miles to wherever it was required. Salt water is also used as cooling for the nuclear power plants on the coast.

Thanks. Good stuff to know!!!

 

[bbbass]

Aquifers are being drained down here in LG, and across the U.S.. Some day we will see a renewal of the old timey fights over water. It's been coming.

How many years does it take for water to seep thru layers of terra? 150yrs at Zion park. So we never catch up, eh?

Now where do you suppose all that fracking mixture and Handford leakage goes. HMMMMM?