Oregon Blood on FBI and BATF's hands again!

[fxdc]

Another failed BGC caused another church shooting!

Fix the system! Screw pushing new gun laws fix and ENFORCE the ones you IDIOTS PASSED!!!!

FBI...... FUMBLING BUNCH of IDIOTS!!!!
My heart goes out to the families.

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[IronMonster]

A failed background check did not cause the shooting.... A crazy man caused the shooting.

 

[fxdc]

A crazy man that got pass the system ...

Domestic assault, DD from the military and a bunch of run in's with the law.

DD in 2012
AR bought In 2016 at store by him.
Never should of passed a BGC.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The failure of the BGC system , just shows that...A failed system.
The BGC system did not cause the problem...But it does add to it , being a faulty system , based on faulty logic.

No law , no ban , no BGC will prevent violence.
Andy

 

[fxdc]

I Get that Andy.... and he would of found an AR deal in a dark alley some where.

And Dillion Roof also, the main question that is being played is how he passed the BGC and get it FIXED.

 

[Stomper]

To fix the problem is to "allow" (as if they needed permission in the first place) citizens to arm themselves and stop restricting what, how, where, and when they can be armed.

An armed society is a polite society.


Bad guys will drop like flies.

 

[notazombie]

Sorry, fxdc, I can't really agree. It's not the alphabet's fault any more than it's Academy, Ruger, Magpul, the military, Ford (if that's what this POS drove), or any other peripheral connection. The shooter made the conscious effort to pull the trigger.
The system is flawed and BGCs do suck but it almost sounds like you're arguing that the .gov needs to be more intrusive. I hope I'm misunderstanding you on that point.

 

[IronMonster]

Anybody who is sane would look at this and say "see pushing for more background checks doesn't help", instead the anti's will say "see we need to just ban all the guns"

It was a good guy with a gun who stopped this massacre and that will be completely lost because it doesn't fit the narrative that gun guys are all bad guys.

Background checks are a feel good thing, they really don't accomplish much. They're more about the antis feeling like they did something while stroking each other's egos and making it harder for law-abiding citizens to conduct legal transactions

 

[WALawyer]

I don't know the specifics at this time, but my understanding is that he received a bad conduct discharge, not a dishonorable discharge. Only a dishonorable prohibits firearm possession. A bad conduct does not.

 

[PiratePast40]

It was a bad conduct discharge. It isn't the same thing as a dishonorable discharge. Types of Military Discharges - Understand Discharge Ratings

"Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD)
The Bad Conduct Discharge is only passed on to enlisted military members and is given by a court-martial due to punishment for bad conduct. A Bad Conduct discharge is often preceded by time in military prison. Virtually all veteran's benefits are forfeited if discharged due to Bad Conduct."

I don't know why he wasn't referred to civilian authorities for his crimes. If that had happened, he would have been prohibited by some states, but not by ATF on a 4473 unless he had been convicted of felonies.

 

[41mag]

The flaw in 'either/or" thinking is exacerbated by the notion of simplistic sports team analogy.....either team A wins OR loses/either team B loses OR wins. Rarely is there 'tie' as typical game rules don't allow for such. In either case a certain portion of the fan base seems determined to go out & smash & grab stuff to take home regardless of which team 'wins'.

We know Freedom will lose the day the 2nd Amendment falls to the predators/parasites/socialist partisans.

 

[Stomper]

The flaw in 'either/or" thinking is exacerbated by the notion of simplistic sports team analogy.....either team A wins OR loses/either team B loses OR wins. Rarely is there 'tie' as typical game rules don't allow for such. In either case a certain portion of the fan base seems determined to go out & smash & grab stuff to take home regardless of which team 'wins'.

We know Freedom will lose the day the 2nd Amendment falls to the predators/parasites/socialist partisans.

This right here!

 

[Heyjoe]

The blood is on the hands of the shooter.

 

[billdeserthills]

Sorry, fxdc, I can't really agree. It's not the alphabet's fault any more than it's Academy, Ruger, Magpul, the military, Ford (if that's what this POS drove), or any other peripheral connection. The shooter made the conscious effort to pull the trigger.
The system is flawed and BGCs do suck but it almost sounds like you're arguing that the .gov needs to be more intrusive. I hope I'm misunderstanding you on that point.

Actually the Gov't is already intrusive enough, but if the FBI/NICS bothered to abide by their own laws and investigate the folks who are denied on the 4473 form I believe they could easily lower the crime rate as well as put a scare into ex felons even trying to fill out the 4473 form

 

[Ownerus]

Actually the Gov't is already intrusive enough, but if the FBI/NICS bothered to abide by their own laws and investigate the folks who are denied on the 4473 form I believe they could easily lower the crime rate as well as put a scare into ex felons even trying to fill out the 4473 form

They would do that IF the intent was to reduce crime. It is NOT the intent. The intent is to compile lists of gunowners and to register guns. That's the reason for the new "private sale" BGC. Too many guns and owners not making it onto the lists. Totalitarians LOVE lists. The ONLY real reason for comprehensive registration lists is for the day they attempt comprehensive confiscation. Their true goal.

 

[Heyjoe]

The blood is on the hands of the shooter.

I should add that I understand your frustration/ anger but I also think it's a bit misdirected.

 

[Argonaut]

A crazy man that got pass the system ...

Domestic assault, DD from the military and a bunch of run in's with the law.

DD in 2012
AR bought In 2016 at store by him.
Never should of passed a BGC.

The guy had no felonies and was not dishonorably discharged. If there is a weak link it was the reporting system for domestic violence between the UCMJ (military justice system) and the FBI data center. It probably isn't required. Many crimes are handled internally in the military, some are not. It just depends on the circumstances and determined by the jurisdictions involved. This event takes me back to avoiding being in large groups and a soft target. This guy seems to be a simple crazy man looking for his mother in law at the church. The same as the Dutch man a few years ago that went after a church with a D9 dozer. Tragedy never the less.

 

[Caveman Jim]

There are no laws that will stop these tragedies from happening, there are over 22k gun related laws already written and none detoured this madman from his dastardly deed.

 

[titsonritz]

What DID work though was yet another good guy with a gun stopped a scumbag with a gun. See how simple that is?

 

[etrain16]

There are no laws that will stop these tragedies from happening, there are over 22k gun related laws already written and none detoured this madman from his dastardly deed.

Not only that, but murder has been illegal since what, the beginning of time? Lot of good that does. The only people that suggest new laws as a solution are those that worship at the alter of their false god, government.