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Beware of The S&W XVR Double tap

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by civilian75, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    I own one of these hand cannons (in 460SW). I've let only a handful of people shoot it. And I always start them with 45Colt, and then let them shoot 460SW. But never thought this could be possible since the trigger pull is long and quite hefty!


    Youtube videos:
    .50 Caliber Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum Revolver - Double Fire? - YouTube
    FULL AUTO 500 S&W - YouTube
    Double Tapping on a 500 magnum. - YouTube


    My hypothesis is three factors combine:
    * inexperienced shooter with poor handgun control,
    * shooting in single action with a
    * very high recoil energy handgun


    Shooters are barely exerting any force to squeeze the trigger. The poor control leads to letting go of the trigger and allowing it to reset, which leads to inadvertently pulling the trigger again while trying not to let go of the gun.
     
  2. daoism

    daoism PDX Member

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  3. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I figure these serious hand cannons should only be fired by strong, experienced pistoleros
     
  4. NWGunfan00

    NWGunfan00 Banks, Oregon Member

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    That's some scary stuff!
     
  5. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    I think experience is far more important than strength. I know a few rather petite women who can handle a hand cannon just fine. OK, that may have not come out right...
     
  6. bluesurf

    bluesurf Portland Active Member

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    WOW :(
     
  7. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Very poor trigger doscipline.. But Im sure she was a new shooter.
    Sad. But it does kind of open my eyes, its hard to not get excited and load a firearm to full capacity when youve got a new shooter or group of new shooters because you want them to enjoy the fun and firepower especially if its a unique platform such as the one described.

    I can almost bet panic set in after that initial shot and she tried to regain contril by grasping where ever she could, sadly I suppose that was the trigger.

    I always tell the new shooters I bring out with me that their trigger finger is what makes it go bang, if at any time they wish to stop firing or if they get nervous.. Just stop pulling the trigger and poibt the firearm in a safe direction before hollering for me or trading off.
     
  8. Oklahomie

    Oklahomie Marysville Active Member

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    I'm a huge guy and the 500 is way too much for me.
     
  9. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    ZA, man, please, watch the videos! This goes beyond trigger discipline. One of the videos shows a guy "successfully" firing the gun three times, only to mess up his fourth (and fifth) shot.

    The main take away here is:
    * Be aware this is possible.
    * Be aware of the risk factors (check my OP).
    * Train unfamiliar shooter to control trigger reset:
    ....- Dry fire the firearm several times.
    ....- instruct shooter not to let go of trigger until shooter has fully absorbed recoil and managed to point gun in safe direction
    ....- Start with one round
    ....- inspect cylinder position after gun is fired
    ....- repeat until shooter demonstrates he can handle it
     
    Blitzkrieg and (deleted member) like this.
  10. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    If the numerous videos demonstrating unintended discharges are any indication, the manufacturer will probably be sued and probably successfully.
     
  11. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Given our litigious society, it would not surprise me. But IMO it is not the gun manufacturer's fault. This is 100% shooter's technique.
     
  12. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    No one should have ever put that in her hand.
    It is a very unpleasant caliber for even a good size man.
    Let alone a woman who may not be all that experienced,
    Don't blame the gun, but whoever suggested she shoot it without enough
    prep and practice. I may be wrong on her experience but that is what was indicated
    by the results.
     
    chemist, orygun, civilian75 and 3 others like this.
  13. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    Im a big guy, 6' 4" 275 lbs , repair and shoot guns everyday of my life. At my hand surgeon's office I hold the top spot in grip pressure!

    I have had a Smith 500 triple on me. It was a bone stock pistol, and all I was doing was sighting it in for a customer. I wish I could have filmed it and watch in slow motion to see exactly how it happened. The next few days after, my hand was very bruised up.

    It can happen..
     
  14. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    I usually do a dry run to develop fundamentals, however upon the first shot I usually tell them to just fire it and not get hung up on accuracy for the first few rounds (other than keeping it down range)

    Unfortunately, some people react horribly to things when it takes them by surprise.
    Had she not shot herself this time she could have muzzle swept someone and done it later.
    Ive seen more than my fair share of folks doing the Hokey pokey be it from inexperience or excitement and sensory overload.

    Hell, Ive even seen leos and former military guys with their finger on the trigger and the muzzle was most certainly NOT in a safe direction.
    I think a conscious effort has to be made as well as the right type of brain chemistry and personality paired with proper firearms training and trigger discipline.

    After all, had she just dropped the firearm or kept her finger indexed shed be alive.
    Who knows, the fella could have made her so nervous that she made the effort to hold on and try to recover rather than let the weapon drop (Which can be very dangerous as well) or stayed relaxed.

    There is a reason some folks are meant to be gatherers rather than hunters..darwinism takes care of the rest (or at least it should). Sad but true.
     
  15. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Wow! a tri-fer must have left a pretty nasty bruise on your hands! Was your "1st" shot in single action mode?

    You have a hand surgeon? Not long after I bought my gun, I developed "trigger finger" on my strong hand's thumb. Never got operated and it went away by itself. I also shoot my XVR less frequently now. I admit I had exposed my hands to other high risk activities. but I always wondered if there was a direct connection between the two events!

    Something else to consider. On one of the videos the shooter had a single hand grip. That's something I would strongly not recommend!!! Anyone disagrees?
     
  16. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    Yep first shot was SA..

    Yah I had a repair done and he is keeping an eye on it, and on my other hand! Now I use the Ransom rest...
     
  17. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I've been looking at a 460 for an Alaskan BUG but I have decided the Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 is plenty of gun :p
     
  18. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    I know somebody who doubled with a .44 mag, and it was the same kind of good-ole-boy stupidity that put him in danger. He was a manager trying to ingratiate himself to the hourlies, so they brought him along up into the mountains above Denver during a Spring thaw. They'd blast rabbits in the snow just for fun - those kind of guys.

    One of my coworkers put a 29-2 with hot handloads in Mr. Manager's hands, and sure enough, he fires the first one off true and level, and the second one straight up in the air. The muzzle was right in front of his face for that "extra" one, and it really took the starch out of him. He didn't handle another weapon for the rest of the day.
     
  19. Gaucho Gringo

    Gaucho Gringo Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Single action revolver - no way something like this could happen. About the safest gun ever made. Unless you pull the hammer back there is no way the gun is going to fire if you have the hammer down on an unloaded chamber even if you break the sear.
     
  20. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Thinning of the herd...................
     
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