Beware of buying used guns . Read my nightmare!

[wpeteman]

I was wondering why it took a year to report it stolen? Maybe a family member pawned it for some quick cash and the owner didnt notice it gone for a year then discovered it missing and reported it stolen. No break in so not noticed for a year. Many ways this could have happened and I doubt it will get investigated.

 

[Catfishmoon]

Might be worth paying for a half hour of an attorney's time to avoid more problems.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Seems to me, there's something messed up with the pawn shop in the O.P!
If they are a legit business that holds a valid FFL, they must "Clear" any firearms that come in to door, that means a call to what ever state agency handles checks, (Oregon it's OSP) and the gun cannot go out on the sales floor until it has cleared the check! That firearm also gets intered into the shops "bound book" and when it leaves, it gets removed! In order for the gun to be sold, the Buyer and the Gun both go through a Back Ground Check, which would initiate another SN check against the firearm, and should the first check not turn up anything, the second should! How this happened is the real question, it shouldn't have, and I can tell you, the selling shop already has an active investigation against it for selling stolen goods!

 

[wpeteman]

Might be worth paying for a half hour of an attorney's time to avoid more problems.

I am thinking hard on that idea. First call in the morning is to the pawn shop second call to an attorney third call to the Detective . Important to know my legal rights and to be sure I am making the right moves

 

[Kristopher Kam]

I will post the name of the shop Monday if they dont step up and refund my money.The fact is that they sold me a stolen gun. They are in the business and often take a loss on stolen items when the PD comes and picks them up. They have a means to write off those losses and its part of the Pawn Shop business to deal with stolen merchandise on a daily basis. They mostly make a profit on their sales. They should make every effort to square up with the customer and in this case its me.

Oh! What if it was stolen then sold... BEFORE it was reported stolen? Then later its reported and a Detective tracks it down from the ffl?

 

[WolfChildBlues]

As was mentioned earlier, say you go on vacation or work out of state for an extended amount of time. You come back and there's no obvious break-in. Eventually you go to look for a particular gun and realize its gone. If you were working in South Dakota for the busy season for 6 months that gun could have easily gone to a gun store, passed the initial intake of the weapon and get sold. No fault of the gun store theoretically but they should definitely work with the buyer and make things right.

 

[Koda]

Could the " theft " of firearm not be discovered untill after the sale/BGC had been performed ?

Im guessing this is what happened. Was stoland and then sold before the owner found out and reported it stolen. Then, how long does it take for a stolen report to get into the system to get to an FFL background check? Makes me wonder what a 'reasonable' amount of time is for a used gun to be on the market?

 

[wpeteman]

Seems to me, there's something messed up with the pawn shop in the O.P!
If they are a legit business that holds a valid FFL, they must "Clear" any firearms that come in to door, that means a call to what ever state agency handles checks, (Oregon it's OSP) and the gun cannot go out on the sales floor until it has cleared the check! That firearm also gets intered into the shops "bound book" and when it leaves, it gets removed! In order for the gun to be sold, the Buyer and the Gun both go through a Back Ground Check, which would initiate another SN check against the firearm, and should the first check not turn up anything, the second should! How this happened is the real question, it shouldn't have, and I can tell you, the selling shop already has an active investigation against it for selling stolen goods!

Actually the Detective said they have done nothing wrong .And I have done nothing wrong. The pawn shop cleared the gun and when I bought it the gun was cleared. The gun was just recently reported stolen . He also said he wouldnt meet me at the pawn shop to hand over the gun as I requested because I would be using him to intimidate the pawn shop into giving me my money back...... he was right about that ..... I really dont have anyone on my side in this matter . My hope in posting this nightmare is that everyone will get a feel for what can happen when you buy a used gun or maybe even a new one. . .

 

[Tilos]

Actually the Detective said they have done nothing wrong .And I have done nothing wrong. The pawn shop cleared the gun and when I bought it the gun was cleared. The gun was just recently reported stolen . He also said he wouldnt meet me at the pawn shop to hand over the gun as I requested because I would be using him to intimidate the pawn shop into giving me my money back...... he was right about that ..... I really dont have anyone on my side in this matter . My hope in posting this nightmare is that everyone will get a feel for what can happen when you buy a used gun or maybe even a new one. . .

That's an interesting update.
I don't see it as "using him to intimidate anyone" just getting all parties involved in one place to resolve this.
He may have already talked to the shop and that's where he got your name/address/phone number.

I'd still contact the pawnshop though.
Their loss of paying you back $800 or offering store credit is just the cost of doing business and could actually come from an insurance company paid by them.
I'm trying to stay away from all the hypotheticals going on here, just dealing with the facts you have given, and still encourage you to contact the Pawn Shop about all this, asap, before meeting up with the "detective".
No one is representing YOU in all this, except you, keep asking questions repeatedly, if necessary, don't accept the detectives every/1st response.
Maybe consult a lawyer as you said, but that will quickly become expensive (more than the $800 you stand to lose).
jmo,
.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

JMHO, but when you do meet up with the detective the shotgun should stay in the trunk until you have had all the time you need to go over the paperwork

 

[wpeteman]

JMHO, but when you do meet up with the detective the shotgun should stay in the trunk until you have had all the time you need to go over the paperwork

I agree ....I just hope there is paperwork. I need something to take to the pawn shop to show he took the gun.

 

[American123]

Someone clearly did something wrong here, if the gun was stolen then the person who sold the gun to the pawn shop was in possession of stolen property at least, as possibly the thief who stole it. That person seems to be the person who needs the shake down. Sounds like small claims court.

 

[lucky guy]

He might well have checked everything according to the book, this one fell through the cracks. Even so the ffl should be happy to give you a refund. This doesn't matter whether it's a gun or a refrigerator. Knowingly or not, he sold you stolen property that he represented to you that he owned when he didn't. He's responsible for making it right by refunding your money. $800 might not enough to hire a lawyer to fight over but you could go to small claims court.

It's not enough for him to fight over either. If you haven't already I'd encourage you to try to go in and try to laugh about you both getting that call from the detective, etc., you know it wasn't his fault, etc. Ha ha. If you can keep him from getting defensive when you chat it might sort itself out. Worth a try. My experience talking with ffl's is they dread LE/BATF attention being drawn to them. They can be audited most anytime on little or no notice, it is a major pita. It's hard to imagine he won't give your $800 back rather than risk a complaint to the BATF that he sold a stolen gun and won't refund the buyer's $$. A refund should be a no brainer and a relief for him. He should hand you a new Browning for your $800 and your trouble, and hope to make a lifetime customer out of the situation.

If not, you could call the BATF office in Seattle and ask of they can help. They were very helpful for me when I didn't know how to handle an issue with a handgun. See what they say first and take it from there. They might even decide it's worth a call to the ffl.

 

[RX-79G]

Someone clearly did something wrong here, if the gun was stolen then the person who sold the gun to the pawn shop was in possession of stolen property at least, as possibly the thief who stole it. That person seems to be the person who needs the shake down. Sounds like small claims court.

You mean, after the person that stole the gun is found, tried and jailed - you should take them to small claims court?

 

[American123]

You mean, after the person that stole the gun is found, tried and jailed - you should take them to small claims court?

Yes, yes, and yes. Seems pretty straight forward considering the FFL would have had to take ID to accept selling of gun to them. Wonder if LEO will investigate it that far though.

 

[P7M13]

Where I come from, not all pawn shops were on the up-and-up.
It's also possible it was just bad luck.
Back before I 592, I bought a gun in a FTF transaction, and the seller seemed a bit jumpy. I have checked that gun against a "stolen gun" database, and it has always come up clean.

 

[gmerkt]

OP bought the gun from the pawnshop in good faith. It is up to the seller to make it good. Seller's recourse for his loss goes back on whom he bought it from. Which should be documented as a matter of business. If that party can be found now. If the pawnshop balks and the purchase was made on a CC, buyer has recourse that way.

How to check without going through Law Enforcement channels

Civilians don't have access to the National Crime Information Center. If you ask an LEO to "run a number" for you, they are ethically charged with taking possession of the gun if it comes back a hit as stolen.

Is there any association at all between the background check system and a database of stolen firearms

There is no universal system for this. Some local governments require it. Some states may require it. And, do not assume that all firearms dealers who trade in used guns are necessarily conscientious about doing it if so required.

Is there a national database of stolen firearms

Yes, the NCIS.

How does "victim" prove firearm was stolen

Police reports, which if reported falsely are subject to prosecution.

I would never allow that Detective to just "pick up" the gun without further explanation of his legal right to do that.

Why not, he's got a badge and a reason for picking it up. This is just a routine law enforcement thing. They will give you a receipt for it. If you think they are doing wrong, you go to his supervisor with the receipt and challenge the take. Which might necessitate a judge figuring it out.

My experience, I bought an 03A3 many years ago. Had it about a month, a detective came by to pick it up. I'd bought if from a local gun shop, they bought the gun in a batch of other rifles from someone who came in off the street. In this municipality, the dealer was required to hold the guns for 30 days, submit a list of serial numbers to the PD for checking, then after 30 days he could sell them if they cleared. He didn't do it. He was greedy, he wanted to make his money quickly. When I went down to get reimbursed, he grumbled and complained. I had bought it on a CC, he gave me a charge back slip. Then he never turned in the charge back credit slip to get me the refund from the CC company. So I had to go the CC dispute route anyway, took about 90 days to resolve.

 

[cooper]

Actually the Detective said they have done nothing wrong .And I have done nothing wrong. The pawn shop cleared the gun and when I bought it the gun was cleared. The gun was just recently reported stolen . He also said he wouldnt meet me at the pawn shop to hand over the gun as I requested because I would be using him to intimidate the pawn shop into giving me my money back...... he was right about that ..... I really dont have anyone on my side in this matter . My hope in posting this nightmare is that everyone will get a feel for what can happen when you buy a used gun or maybe even a new one. . .

We are here for you sir. Emotionally at least.

 

[wpeteman]

We are here for you sir. Emotionally at least.

Thanks

 

[RX-79G]

Yes, yes, and yes. Seems pretty straight forward considering the FFL would have had to take ID to accept selling of gun to them. Wonder if LEO will investigate it that far though.

You might find that the sort of people that steal guns to pawn them aren't going to have a lot left to award you in small claims court. Or via restitution.