Beretta M9A1 offering for army contract consideration. (in FDE)

[Joe13]

You "laugh" at people who have actually had to depend on that little POS round/pistol, then go on to say you're just a civvie in a civvie world? That sure makes us value your input.....

Still laughing brother

And laughing at people who depend on a handgun instead of a rifle or shotgun - you know, your primary weapon in battle against armored enemies. Cuz if a 9mm won't do it then most likely a .45 won't either...

Lastly, I'm not trying to impress you or anyone else here. I'm completely comfortable carrying a .22lr or 9mm in civilian life, I'm not in the army anymore and don't need to show off my epeen by spouting nonsense about how my caliber is better then yours.

 

[Surf Rat]

It's natural to want to take military experience and transfer those experiences to the civilian world but folks often forget one very huge difference between a military 9mm pistol and a civilian 9mm pistol and that difference is the full metal jacket round that the military is limited to.

The expanding hollow point round that the civilian users of the 9mm hand gun are using cause much more tissue destruction than the full metal jacket round the military is restricted to. If the military was allowed to use hollow points, I think there would be a different opinion of the caliber. Since the armed forces are limited to full metal jacket, I think they would be better off choosing a larger diameter round like the 45.

It will be interesting to see what the armed forces select in the future given their restriction to full metal jacket rounds.

 

[Just Jim]

Be interesting if they ordered some of the full auto 92s that Beretta makes, you can see one in the movie Broken Arrow.

 

[clearconscience]

I think the appeal to the beretta was always it's ease to disassemble and clean opposed to the 1911.
And the 9mm is easier to shoot than a .40 or .45.
Although I don't think a .45 is much worse than the 9mm.

 

[Pandaz3]

Well the Army has already rejected the newest version of the M9 saying it won't be considered.
The Army is stuck with FMJ by a 100+ year old treaty. They would have to get the US State department to nullify that treaty. Okay it isn't an actual treaty but it was the Hague Conference of 1899 and the US did sign it, and the State Department is unlikely to change it's stance.

Some hollow points that are used in match grade rifle ammunition can be used as they are not designed to expand. The hollow point in them captures a bubble of air at the tip, making it more aerodynamically efficient. It works better than most polymer tips.

Anyway the Army will have a non-NATO pistol caliber when all is said and done.

 

[mjbskwim]

It's natural to want to take military experience and transfer those experiences to the civilian world but folks often forget one very huge difference between a military 9mm pistol and a civilian 9mm pistol and that difference is the full metal jacket round that the military is limited to.

The expanding hollow point round that the civilian users of the 9mm hand gun are using cause much more tissue destruction than the full metal jacket round the military is restricted to. If the military was allowed to use hollow points, I think there would be a different opinion of the caliber. Since the armed forces are limited to full metal jacket, I think they would be better off choosing a larger diameter round like the 45.

It will be interesting to see what the armed forces select in the future given their restriction to full metal jacket rounds.

First lets get rid of the BS that says what tools our guys can use.You want our help? We'll bring what WE see fit
Mainly the pentagon needs to kill the salesmen who bring these weapons in and send out men that have seen battle and dropped the POS guns so they can pick a fine weapons

Now if you haven't watched his videos yet,check out Brass fetcher on you tube.He is not a YT hack but tests ammo for PD and ammo companies.He has a few vids testing the 9mm against the 45 and the 45 wins one test
It loses mostly because of capacity
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brass+fetcher

 

[Pandaz3]

The latest news about the M9 saga

 

[clearconscience]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the beretta design or caliber, but the issue is it's over use. Just like the M16-M4s.
You can have something in use for as long as they do with the abuse they get and have it work as needed in life or death situations.

 

[308]

Lipstick on a pig?
Maybe my M4 will be better if I add a rail and a coating of dark earth gunkote.

 

[IronMonster]

http://kitup.military.com/2014/07/army-40-caliber-fbi-returns-9mm.html

 

[Just Jim]

http://kitup.military.com/2014/07/army-40-caliber-fbi-returns-9mm.html

Means the ammo manufacturers will start making a billion rounds of 9mm for them so I guess 9mm is going to be in short supply

 

[Just Jim]

Not sure if my memory serves me right but I think Sig was the winner in the original trials to replace the 1911 but lost out on the bid to higher cost. Military buys what is cheapest but it sounds like the Beretta was not so cheap after all.

 

[locobob]

If they are going to move away from the standard 9mm NATO I'd like to see them adopt a gun in 10mm auto, how about a militarized version of the proven Glock 20? It's got a rail, add a threaded barrel and a coat of FDE = good to go.

 

[Pandaz3]

Yes I agree on the Glock 20. Easier to learn, flatter shooting, packs a big punch and yet not as snappy as a Glock 22 in .40.... That safety/decocker stumped a lot of those new to shooting a handgun and the Army's training left a whole lot to be desired.

 

[mjbskwim]

Then you have the same problem the FBI had and not everyone's hands are big enough for the 10mm grip
That's where the 40 came from

 

[Martini_Up]

Then you have the same problem the FBI had and not everyone's hands are big enough for the 10mm grip
That's where the 40 came from

Small hands didn't stop the 92fs / m9 / m9-a1. It's like holding a cucumber.

 

[mjbskwim]

You got a point there.That isn't exactly a small grip

 

[locobob]

Having owned both - the Beretta grip is pretty chunky and so is the grip on my G20SF, unfortunately I no longer own the 92 so I'm just going off memory. Anyhow the G20 just seems like a no-brainer to me: proven bullet proof platform, simple to use/maintain and twice the mag capacity of the .45 with potentially better terminal ballistics.

 

[werfer75]

I am in favor of having a couple of standard issue options there is no one wrench for all things, I will always favor more rocks in my bag. I always like my Glock 17 for that

 

[Pandaz3]

I am in favor of having a couple of standard issue options there is no one wrench for all things, I will always favor more rocks in my bag. I always like my Glock 17 for that

I have an adjustable metric wrench the works for everything/ Some refer to it as a Crescent Wrench as that company had a lot to do with it's popularity. It is not a Crescent Wrench, they are SAE, mine is Metric

It can be cumbersome though.

Seriously while I agree that a larger .380 would be appropriate for many of the jobs, it would be a second third or even fifth handgun round for the supply system.